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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    1) Most of the quests in zones like Grizzly Hills, Fjord, Borean, and Sholazar were completely disconnected from the main story, which would have been fine as standalone plot arcs had they not been, for the most part, boring and anticlimactic, not to mention cliche. Just for comparison, every single new zone in Cataclysm, for example, absolutely blew all of Northrend out of the water when it came to plot and aesthetics.
    I'd take Grizzly Hills, Howling Fjord, Dragonblight, Ice Crown, and Storm Peaks over any of the cataclysm zones. The Death Knight Starter zone was also excellent. The only max level cata zones that I found interesting were the adventures of Harrison Ford and 20,000 leagues under the sea. In contrast, the low level worgen and forsaken zones were excellent and first rate. In general, the low level cata zones were better than the high level cata zones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    2) The two top level zones were almost completely identical in aesthetics with very few visual variations throughout. This was consistent with the lore of the zones, but failed to make them any less of an eye-sore after a few months of seeing more of the same every single day..
    While Ice Crown and Storm Peaks were both frozen mountains, one was giants/dwarves/titans, the other was all undead all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    3) Crystalsong, arguably the most beautiful zone in the Northrend, had virtually zero content. Now I'm not sure where exactly I saw this, but I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a thriving questing zone like all the others but Blizz decided to cut content before release, possibly due to lack of resources (WOD flashbacks anyone?)..
    It was performance resource conflict with Dalaran ... not lack of developer resources. Sort of the reason why there aren't that many adventures in the major cities; but instead combat occurs in zones away from Orgrimmar, Stormwind, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    4) Yogg'saron was squeezed in seemingly out of nowhere, and met a highly unimpressive and unimportant end for something that is apparently the root of (almost) all evil on Azeroth. .
    Not entirely out of nowhere. His minions are in Ice Crown and some of the instances. Saronite was available in the beginning of the expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    5) Flying was available at lvl 77, allowing players to fly over all of the seemingly looming, menacing threats in Icecrown and Stormpeaks, taking away much of the "darkness" and "danger" behind them..
    Those zones were designed for characters that can fly. Also, I don't really remember whether we immediately got flying at level 77, or whether we had to be higher level initially to get flying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    6) The entire expansion was pretty predictable, from start to finish, in that we knew we would eventually get to and kill Arthas. No plot twists aside from Wrathgate, which again didn't impact the overall story though..
    Lack of plot twists applies to every expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    Overall, I am not trying to say that WOTLK was a bad expansion by any means, nor that it wasn't *better* than, say, WOD, but when people over-exaggerate and go "oh it was the best thing that ever happened to WOW, everything was 10/10", well, they're wrong. It was, for the most part, fun and new. But it was also a bit monotonous and stale in looks and storytelling.
    It was 10/10. Could it have been improved? Sure. But no other WoW expansion has ever been close to Wrath.
    Last edited by endur; 2016-08-24 at 03:03 AM.

  2. #102
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I have literally never seen anyone ever Wrath it was perfect, and it has its share of critics, so I feel like you're mostly arguing against nonexistent people.

    I would never state one expansion was better than another as if it was an objective truth because all expansions have their merits and everyone has different preferences and tastes. However, Wrath was probably the expansion where I had the most fun. It having some faults doesn't negate that, and not all pros/cons are equal in value, either. At the end of the day, my top factor when judging an expansion is how much fun I had while playing it at the time it was current, compared to other expansions judged while current. That puts Wrath at #1 (albeit barely squeaking ahead of BC probably) for me.

    With regard to the not all pros/cons being of equal value, I'll address some of your points:
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    1) Most of the quests in zones like Grizzly Hills, Fjord, Borean, and Sholazar were completely disconnected from the main story, which would have been fine as standalone plot arcs had they not been, for the most part, boring and anticlimactic, not to mention cliche. Just for comparison, every single new zone in Cataclysm, for example, absolutely blew all of Northrend out of the water when it came to plot and aesthetics.
    Aesthetics is completely subjective. Northred was aesthetically the most pleasing expansion to me by far. Borean Tundra was the only zone I was apathetic to visually, and some of them (Howling Fjord, Sholozar, Crystalsong) I found outright beautiful. There's literally no other era of WoW I feel that way about.

    As far as questing, I agree. Frankly, I feel like the questing and leveling experience has improved vastly with each expansion, with each one doing better than the last. I think that's something worth giving props too, but I also don't consider this that much of a negative for prior expansions since I am the kind of person that dislikes all leveling after I've done the zone a couple times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    2) The two top level zones were almost completely identical in aesthetics with very few visual variations throughout. This was consistent with the lore of the zones, but failed to make them any less of an eye-sore after a few months of seeing more of the same every single day.
    I feel like you're talking about Stormpeaks and Icecrown, but I don't see it. They are pretty visually distinct to me. One is all snow and ice while the other is barren and plague-infested looking. I can see some minor similarities (like elevation) but "completely identical in aesthetics" is such a bold, black and white statement. I don't even feel like its hyperbole of reality; it just feels completely wrong. Like, I legit feel like - am I forgetting a zone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    3) Crystalsong, arguably the most beautiful zone in the Northrend, had virtually zero content. Now I'm not sure where exactly I saw this, but I read somewhere that it was supposed to be a thriving questing zone like all the others but Blizz decided to cut content before release, possibly due to lack of resources (WOD flashbacks anyone?).
    Sure, that sucks, but again I don't rate the leveling experience as one of the most important merits of an expansion because I hate all quests pretty equally after I've done them a few times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    4) Yogg'saron was squeezed in seemingly out of nowhere, and met a highly unimpressive and unimportant end for something that is apparently the root of (almost) all evil on Azeroth.
    I give no shits about Lore, so this doesn't matter to me. In fact, to me Yogg was a GREAT fight and probably in my top 5 boss fights of all time (so was Mim and LK, so more points for Wrath as far as I'm concerned).
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    5) Flying was available at lvl 77, allowing players to fly over all of the seemingly looming, menacing threats in Icecrown and Stormpeaks, taking away much of the "darkness" and "danger" behind them.
    Flying does do that, but I also feel like flying was absolutely necessary at that level given the vertical design of both Icecrown and Stormpeaks. It would have been really miserable without it IMO. So pros and cons.

    Also with the amount of passionately pro-flying players out there, I'm not sure most people will see this as a negative at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exilian View Post
    6) The entire expansion was pretty predictable, from start to finish, in that we knew we would eventually get to and kill Arthas. No plot twists aside from Wrathgate, which again didn't impact the overall story though.
    Unpredictability is not really an important thing to me, and I don't think WoW's writing is particularly good at any point anyway. That said, Wrath of the Lich King had the strongest theme, story and villain for me of any expansion and for as little as I concern myself with lore, I was invested in the situation with the Wrathgate up until the defeat of the Lich King.

    Also holy shit the Wrathgate was so good. Fuckin' a man.
    Last edited by Tziva; 2016-08-24 at 03:04 AM.


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  3. #103
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Wrath was pretty awesome. *takes off rose colored glass* Wrath was pretty fucking amazing.
    Cata was solid til Bliz nerfed the hell out of everything, the worst part of which imo opinion was how trivial they made Firelands with a 4.2.x patch. This broke my addiction.
    I didn't like what I saw coming with MoP but after resubbing found the expansion to be quite nice. I enjoyed MoP nearly as much as I enjoyed Wrath.
    WoD... jesus fucking christ I cannot get over how shitty that expansion was/is. Interesting raiding, but outside of that... mmo my ass.

    The only negative for both Wrath and MoP for me was the standard content drought at the end of both expansions.

  4. #104
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    I enjoyed wotlk, the lore was good and my favorite questline was the one with Bridenbrad...brought a tear to mine eye.

  5. #105
    I don't know why people cry so much over ToC. All bosses were very original and fun, Jaraxxus was the only "generic" boss but it was still a cool fight. Sure, all fights in the same room, no thrash and all that, but it was still a good raid in my opinion.

    MUCH BETTER than shit and disappointing Dragon Soul, now that is something you can call bad.

    Wotlk was for me an amazing experience, the best expansion I played by a looooong shot. Even having ICC for so long was not a problem, not for me or anyone on my guild/server/friends or whatever, no one unsubbed during that time.

  6. #106
    I thought it was Burning Crusade.....
    /shrug

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Kae View Post
    It also suffered from the unfun "Limited Attempts" mechanic (I'm so glad they never continued with that!)
    They brought it back for Ra-den in Heroic Throne of Thunder

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    my only gripe is that Arthas failed at pretty much every turn and spent the whole expansion suffering defeats at our hands and getting pushed back

    hell, Putress > Arthas even


    in this sense GulDan and Broken Shore are vastly more impressive
    i'll prolly gonna get infracted but, are you kinda stupid?? that was Arthas plan all along, he even told us how we defeated every single one of his challenges and for what? to turn us into the greatest weapon the scourge ever had, he was counting with us overcoming all his trials.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    I don't know why people cry so much over ToC. All bosses were very original and fun, Jaraxxus was the only "generic" boss but it was still a cool fight. Sure, all fights in the same room, no thrash and all that, but it was still a good raid in my opinion.

    MUCH BETTER than shit and disappointing Dragon Soul, now that is something you can call bad.

    Wotlk was for me an amazing experience, the best expansion I played by a looooong shot. Even having ICC for so long was not a problem, not for me or anyone on my guild/server/friends or whatever, no one unsubbed during that time.
    Anub'arak was original? The dude dies in a launch dungeon and shares similar mechanics.

  10. #110
    WoTLK was the summation of the story that began with Warcraft 3. It was very fulfilling to complete that story.

    What the hell is your point anyway? It was better and worse than other expansions on various different measurement criteria but overall was the best. It was also the peak of subscription numbers. What are you trying to prove? That it's better than Pandaria or Cataclysm??

    Overall, I'm saying your post was boring, cliche and lacked direction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    i'll prolly gonna get infracted but, are you kinda stupid?? that was Arthas plan all along, he even told us how we defeated every single one of his challenges and for what? to turn us into the greatest weapon the scourge ever had, he was counting with us overcoming all his trials.
    Happy to share your infraction. Poster is uninformed - Arthas only lost because Fordring went all Goku and somehow shattered Frostmourne with the Ashbringer.

    He played a risky game and lost. He also failed to corrupt Bolvar but other than that did fine.

  11. #111
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    ICC and Ulduar are still two of the best raids that Blizzard has ever released. The questing wasn't always focused around the Lich King, but he certainly appeared throughout the questing more than any other antagonist for any expac. Wrath brought with it the achievement system, which increased the longevity of the game for me 10 fold.

    Also, Storm Peaks and Icecrown are really nothing alike. Just because they both have snow doesn't mean that they are the same lol. Yogg'saron had roots deep in Wrath from the beginning. Saronite is his blood. He may not directly tie to the Lich King, but neither did Lei Shen or Ragnaros. The middle tier is typically a side story for the continent we are exploring. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

    By the way, what expansion wasn't predictable? BC (although it was predictable up to Black Temple), Mists (almost completely new lore so no one could predict what would happen), and WoD (which was arguably predictable). The only expac that was truly unpredictable was Mists. Also, being predictable in knowing who the final boss is, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    WotLK is in my opinion the best expansion and EASILY in the Top 2 alongside BC. Cata started strong but faded quickly, Mists had phenomenal content but the themes of it were a departure from traditional WoW, which isn't necessarily a bad thing and I found it refreshing, but traditional WoW wins out in the end imo, and WoD was complete fucking trash. T17 and 18 were decent. The questing was phenomenal.

    Honestly, Legion has all the cards stacked in its favor. The theme is that were fighting the Legion, which has always been the main antagonist of WoW, so we're basically at the rising action stage right now so theme is A+, the launch seems to be packed full of interesting and rewarding content, and it seems that they are going to try and replicate Mist's content schedule. If they live up to Legion's potential it could possibly become the best expansion. But that's a big if after all the stumbles Blizz has made, so I am very cautiously optimistic.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtcrime View Post
    2) Are we talking about Ice Crown and Storm Peaks here? I don't have any issues with Ice Crown although the amount of time we spent there did make it a bit boring after a couple of YEARS but exploring it for the first time was amazing. Storm Peaks continues to be one of the most beautiful zones in the game, and played the way it was designed is one of my favourite questing experiences.
    Not to mention Storm Peaks (and Ulduar) were the peak (pun not intended) of musical marvel in WotLK (for me anyway).

    P.S.: is that a picture of you on your profile? You're gorgeous!

  13. #113
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by De Lupe View Post
    From a purely objective standpoint, Wrath is number two on the list with only Mists being better.

    Cinematics, zones, characters, combat, gear designs, lore, races...everything Wrath did, Mists did better.
    How is any of what you said objective. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

  14. #114
    I think TBC was the second best expansion, with Wrath best.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvn View Post
    TBC had:
    -good dungeon and raid mechanics.
    Pally tanks made aoe tanking trivial. Moroes was trivial if you brought 2+ priests. BC raids and dungeons were far more class dependent than Wrath or later xpacs.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvn View Post
    -good gearing progression, maybe a little too hard at the beginning
    Let's not forget how hard it was at the beginning. The heroic dungeons were very hard (really required raid gear to run) and dropped basically nothing at the beginning. Until the welfare pvp epics and the badge system arrived, many guilds couldn't get past Moroes in Karazhan.

    Quote Originally Posted by nvn View Post
    -10/25 players raid instead of 40, karazhan is probably the best raid of the game even if it was only for 10 people.
    Kara was excellent. Although I think ICC has an argument for best raid.

  15. #115
    personally i fully agree with the OP. wotlk wasnt that great. dailies were relatively lame standard shit. more worse they introduced stupid run-through dngs and finally resulted in LFG. argent dng and raid was totally lame. story-wise it was ok, but nothing special. ulduar and icecrown were very good. overall it was a ok/good addon. but far away of some ppls hype.

    but my exp is, it depends who you ask. if you ask players, played a lot wow till today and started early vanilla, most of them have not that wotlk hype syndrom. but if you ask newer (if you can call that new today) players, started with wotlk and just saw cata and mop after, the most of them are totally hyped about how great wotlk was. for me personally, thats a more viable indicator for vanilla and BC, than for wotlk itself. and if you get, palyers started with wotlk until now, have played just 4 xpacs, and 2 of them were cata and WoD, well then... hyping wotlk isnt suprising me that much

    in the end, often its dependend on when you started your wow journey.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2016-08-24 at 03:35 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by IIamaKing View Post
    Agreed. Wrath is my fav for the fun I had but IMO MoP is objectively better. It gets shit on by people for lolpandas, never really heard a decent merit based complaint.
    I fucking hate the entire theme and aesthetic of Mop. The colors, the architecture, the whole thing makes me feel physically fucking sick. It's suffocating. Doesn't feel like WoW to me at all. You can say my 'feeling' is not a logical argument, but at the end of the day, in a game like wow where you need to immerse yourself in the game world, if you fucking hate everything about it, it's going to suck.

    I actually don't have a problem with the panda race at all. I like them, but the world in which they exist I fucking detest.

    Not to mention at the start of mop when I played, it was world of dailycraft, everything was locked behind dailies. Hated that.

  17. #117
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    I've enjoyed wotlk more than vanilla and TBC. Living bomb was a huge part of why i enjoyed wotlk besides of all other things that i don't really want to mention
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  18. #118
    I love Wotlk but if i must go to Northrend one more time on a alt i might as well die from boredoom.

    Its sooooo sloooow and boooring.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromell View Post
    Not to mention Storm Peaks (and Ulduar) were the peak (pun not intended) of musical marvel in WotLK (for me anyway).
    The music was definitely my favourite part too, it was so haunting and awe inspiring in a way this game, and few other games have felt to me in a long time, having read Chronicles the whole area makes me kind of sad now. I'm not and have never been an RPer but I remember that was the place where for the first time I really saw my character as an actual person with a history rather than a collection of graphics and funny hats.

    While questing and exploring there the music and the setting made me reflect on how far he'd travelled from when he set out as a young paladin of Northshire. How important the struggles against the Defias Brotherhood, the orcs of Blackrock mountain and the trolls of Zul'Gurub had been at the time. How he'd fought through the depths of the world, across time and space against traitors and demons and creatures of ancient evil. Now here he was; flying over the mountains, past armies of giants and dwarves frozen forever in the midst of a battle that was waged long before the first kingdoms of men were founded. Exploring the abandoned cities and temples of the gods themselves at the roof of the world.

    Being there felt like the end of a long journey, it was a masterpiece, and I loved it.

  20. #120
    I thought it was good but not like overwhelmingly good. It had its good and its bad. Northrend questing wise was not that great imo. The raids were kind of hit and miss. Mostly what it had was the lore and sense of mystery surrounding Northrend, icc and Arthas/Nerzul. It was the culmination of everything people who had played wc3 were looking for in wow. I don't think it was something so great that no other exp can ever eclipse it though. More like an 8/10. Dungeons were pretty good too though a bit weak and a few were kind of bad(Oculus I am looking at you).
    Last edited by Berndorf; 2016-08-24 at 04:54 AM.

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