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  1. #101
    Brewmaster Spray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordAmbrosia View Post
    Shit guys, everyone put away your sims and exhaustive analysis, this guy skimmed things over and found out how the game is broken beyond repair.
    That's pretty much what I'm thinking after skimming over all the five pages.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadohw View Post
    But yeah any fight you lust on the pull oh baby. It depends how many mages you have. With 1 ring in the raid having the Mage lust on fights shorter than 5.40 will be better since 3 lusts in 5 mins. When you have 2 in raid then 1 Mage will always get shafted.
    thats not how the TW legendary works tho. with this ring you always ignore any sated debuff you have as long as you use your own TW so no mage gets shafted if they use their own TW, if the fight is 7 minutes long then every mage in your raid could potentially get 3 TWs, basically you TW on pull and get TW for 40 secs, then you can use yor own TW and then wait 5 minutes and then you can use your own TW again.
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2016-08-23 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    thats not how the TW legendary works tho. with this ring you always ignore any sated debuff you have as long as you use your own TW so no mage gets shafted if they use their own TW, if the fight is 7 minutes long then every mage in your raid could potentially get 3 TWs, basically you TW on pull and get TW for 40 secs, then you can use yor own TW and then wait 5 minutes and then you can use your own TW again.
    Sorry I should have been more specific. I knew what I meant just didn't type it or it didn't explain it enough. If 1 Mage lusts on pull then shaman lusts for that Mage then he lusts at 5 mins and Mage 2 has to lust for himself 40 seconds in. His lust cd is 40 seconds behind Mage 1. Thus on any fight shorter than 5.40 Mage 1 gets 3 lusts correct? And Mage 2 only gets 2. But yeah kinda situational depends on the fight, strat and kill times.

    EDIT I tried finding average kill times for bosses but tbh the only boss that matched the description of the scenario I am talking about is iron reaver since you didn't lust on the pull for 95% of the bosses during progression. But yeah that was about 7/8min kills for some guilds at the start.
    Last edited by mmoc343814da7d; 2016-08-23 at 09:59 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadohw View Post
    If 1 Mage lusts on pull then shaman lusts for that Mage then he lusts at 5 mins and Mage 2 has to lust for himself 40 seconds in. His lust cd is 40 seconds behind Mage 1. Thus on any fight shorter than 5.40 Mage 1 gets 3 lusts correct? And Mage 2 only gets 2.
    That sounds unfortunately correct, which means we have a wod ring v2 in terms of social anxiety, but not as raid wide.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curnivore View Post
    That sounds unfortunately correct, which means we have a wod ring v2 in terms of social anxiety, but not as raid wide.
    Will just have to /roll for 3 lusts. I enjoyed doing that for every boss when the rune of power bug was out. Will probably give it to the best geared Mage if 2 of us have it.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Yes.

    Pull: other mage/shaman/corehound pops Lust
    1st Lust ends (40 sec): you pop TW
    5 min later: you pop TW again

    So basically any fight that's 6:20 or longer will have you benefit from 2:00 of pure TW time.
    Assuming that the encounter encourages timewarp on the pull and not for some burn phase. If time warp happens at 20-30% for example, we might not be able to use our timewarp even a second time during the fight.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by globenstine View Post
    to be honest in the one that lets you cast while moving after casting an instant cast spell is WAY better in practice in a raid environment than an extra lust. seeing as how most of your dps loss as a caster is caused by needing to move.
    Probably not because Fire mages have a lot of ways to do damage on the move. If you are aware of the fight, ice floes + shimmer should be more than enough for most fights.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by runique View Post
    Probably not because Fire mages have a lot of ways to do damage on the move. If you are aware of the fight, ice floes + shimmer should be more than enough for most fights.
    yeah and worst case you'll still have stuff like fire blast, phoenix flame and the hot streaks you generate from them, you could potentially move for 12ish secs spamming just your instant cast spells in addition to shimmer and ice floes, there is really very little need for that particular legendary.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    Apparently it's ok for me to be called a liar, though, multiple times.
    Curnivore and Quetesh would've shattered my faith in the american education system... if I had any.
    You can't have an intellectual and rational discussion with people who are sheltered and driven by "muh feelings" instead of logic.

  10. #110
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    the issue is why its not super op

    if your the only mage/shammy in a group this ring is basicly usless... as you use it once, then have to wait 5 mins to get the bonus of it... and unless its a boss that lasts 5 mins and you hero on pull... not gunna happen

    it has a 5 min cooldown so you can only use once per fight...

    if your group is saving hero for the final push, you cant use this at all, as its a waste, since the fight will end with the hero that is free...

    your group has 2 mages
    mage A is the one who will use hero at pull
    boss pulls, mage A presses hero, now has 5 min cooldown
    Timewarp happens, everyone dps, timewarp ends
    Mage B gets to press their timewarp now and buff them
    then
    Boss dies, mage A dident get to benefit from the ring
    /or/
    5 minutes pass, then mage A FINALLY gets to use their timewarp again, and buff themselves with the ring, finally making it useful
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-08-26 at 08:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    it has a 5 min cooldown so you can only use once per fight...
    I think you raided HFC far too long by now to remember that every single boss next month will be longer than 5 minutes.

    About the ring - it is by far the best legendary in my opinion, regardless of what simcraft says or will ever say. The possibility to stack this with procs or buffs or vulnerability periods etc is just too good in real life. Just imagine lusting for yourself with combustion+rune up on one of Iskar add waves, you're not going to see this in simcraft graphs.
    Last edited by stevenho; 2016-08-26 at 09:20 PM.

  12. #112
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    I think you raided HFC far too long by now to remember that every single boss next month will be longer than 5 minutes.

    About the ring - it is by far the best legendary in my opinion, regardless of what simcraft says or will ever say. The possibility to stack this with procs or buffs or vulnerability periods etc is just too good in real life. Just imagine lusting for yourself with combustion+rune up on one of Iskar add waves, you're not going to see this in simcraft graphs.
    yes and every single boss fight will have you pop hero at the start...

    also if you pop hero before your group tells you to, you are in deep shit, so on fights where you use hero half way or at the end of a fight, this ring is usless so you couldent use it on a iskar add wave, because the group most likley will tell you to save it till the final add wave...
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2016-08-26 at 09:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    About the ring - it is by far the best legendary in my opinion, regardless of what simcraft says or will ever say. The possibility to stack this with procs or buffs or vulnerability periods etc is just too good in real life. Just imagine lusting for yourself with combustion+rune up on one of Iskar add waves, you're not going to see this in simcraft graphs.
    If you think you are above Simcraft, then tell the Simcraft people how to improve the simulation. If you use Simcraft correctly, it is an extremely potent tool for analysis and decision-making.

    And make no mistake: the ring is pretty much only useful on fights where you actually Lust on the pull. There will be such fights, for sure; but there will also be fights that have specific demands for Lust at very particular times. Since you can't very well screw over your raid for personal DPS, the ring will be fairly bad if not completely useless on a good number of fights - but also quite good on some others.

    Depending on legendary availability, switching on a per-fight basis seems to be advised.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If you think you are above Simcraft, then tell the Simcraft people how to improve the simulation.
    Erm..wat? "Above"? lol
    People most often link patchwerk simcraft results and draw conclusions, while in reality there are ZERO patchwerk fights in the game.


    And make no mistake: the ring is pretty much only useful on fights where you actually Lust on the pull. There will be such fights, for sure; but there will also be fights that have specific demands for Lust at very particular times.
    Yea and then there will be farm period lasting 5-10x the time of progression period, when lust on pull is the way to go on every single boss, with gear.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerion View Post
    Other people using bloodlust will give you sated so you can't use time warp. Only your time warp doesn't apply the debuff on you.
    This is incorrect. The ring allows you to benefit from your Timewarp even with a sated debuff. I tested it 2 days ago on beta.

    This ring is incredibly overpowered and will certainly be nerfed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetesh View Post
    It is not that strong as it looks like and even less strong when you are saving TW/BL for specific part of the fight. Next time support your claim with some numbers, not just your feeling - something like this
    Those are incorrect. There is not a single accurate sim for any spec currently. If you weren't absolutely terrible at this game you'd immediately know this chart is completely wrong. Do you play this game at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by globenstine View Post
    to be honest in the one that lets you cast while moving after casting an instant cast spell is WAY better in practice in a raid environment than an extra lust. seeing as how most of your dps loss as a caster is caused by needing to move.
    No. We already have IF and if you think you need to move that much, you're terrible at this game and have no idea what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetesh View Post
    8m+ is pretty uncommon - maybe last few mythic bosses where you normally don't use TW/BS on pull. Even with best case scenario (sims are for 450s) it is not that strong, but it is your first impression so it must be right. I was pretty exited for that ring when i first saw it, but something like Bindings of the Sun King is much stronger even it doesn't look like it is.
    6-8m is fairly common on progression bosses, as others have pointed out, and in progression unless you literally have a perfect raid, even late burns won't kill the boss within 40s unless the boss is trivial (and legendaries basically don't impact a kill, even with executes and lust that'd require a ~3 minute kill time which isn't going to happen except on trivial bosses).

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetesh View Post
    Proof please, we had enough of your first impressions.
    Common sense is sufficient proof here. A lot of people don't seem to understand how you can game this ring. In virtually all cases it guarantees 2 TWs, in many cases it will give you 3-4 in progression.

    It's not going to be a 2% DPS increase. You can do napkin math to prove this false. Even if you say 2 lusts in 6 minutes (you pop and then re-pop later), you're gaining ~25% more time for 40s of the fight, at 6 minutes that's 2.7% from the time gained alone, and since you'll likely be able to get 3 within a 6 minute fight, that's minimum 5.4%. That's assuming a linear damage curve which is definitely not the case, so stacking with CDs is likely far more potent (like saving Ps for a later lust given the long recharge).
    Last edited by BiggestNoob; 2016-08-26 at 11:53 PM.

  16. #116
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    Those sims posted at the beginning make zero sense.

    How is it supposed to be possible that a 40 second 30% haste buff only increases your dps from 280k to 288k?

    I really really really really really really REALLY doubt that. ESPECIALLY as 450s sim gets two additional TWs.

    Just a single Time Warp causes a MASSIVE increase in DPS for me. A second one's increase isn't going to be as high because you can't line the cooldowns up as well, but it sure as hell isn't that miniscule.

    This is why I don't blindly trust sims. If sims say that something is a 5k dps loss but in practice I have 10k more DPS doing it, I do what gives me 10k more DPS.
    Last edited by mmoc06f0881615; 2016-08-27 at 12:19 AM.

  17. #117
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post


    Yea and then there will be farm period lasting 5-10x the time of progression period, when lust on pull is the way to go on every single boss, with gear.
    I think you're actually retarded if you take farm into account. Nobody cares about farm except for showing how big your RNGdick is on WoL's. Progression is the only important thing, and if in progression lust is used in execute or add phase, then the ring will be mediocre at best. I progressed extremely hardcore on HFC and let me tell you there wasn't a single fight we lusted on pull. Sometimes in the middle, sometimes in very intense phases, most of the time in execute.

    The main use of this ring will be to show your dick in farm periods, but it's use when it actually matters, in progression, will be limited at best. My fellow mages and myself have already concluded we're going after the wrist leg first, by far.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastkin View Post
    -snip-
    lol the TW ring isnt even our best legendary, for ST its the pyro ring, especially after it got buffed and for aoe its the dragon's breat legendary, if its oh sooo OPthen why isnt it our best legendary?

    the only problem i can see with the TW ring is that it apparently drums bypasses the debuff as well with the ring and needs to be fixed
    Last edited by mmoca748dddcc2; 2016-08-27 at 12:36 AM.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    I progressed extremely hardcore on HFC and let me tell you there wasn't a single fight we lusted on pull.
    Lust on pull is optimal if it's not necessary somewhere else, simply because every trinket, your pre-pots and also every cooldown lines up perfectly for it. It also is optimal against hard enrage fights where you need to beat a specific timer.

    This legendary wasn't in HFC so I'm not sure why that would be relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    lol the TW ring isnt even our best legendary, for ST its the pyro ring, especially after it got buffed and for aoe its the dragon's breat legendary, if its oh sooo OPthen why isnt it our best legendary?

    the only problem i can see with the TW ring is that it apparently drums bypasses the debuff as well with the ring and needs to be fixed
    I wouldn't be surprised if pyro legendary is the best, but it won't be too long until you can use both, you know.

  20. #120
    Stood in the Fire Torian kel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayuki View Post
    Lust on pull is optimal if it's not necessary somewhere else, simply because every trinket, your pre-pots and also every cooldown lines up perfectly for it. It also is optimal against hard enrage fights where you need to beat a specific timer.

    This legendary wasn't in HFC so I'm not sure why that would be relevant.


    I don't know how your guild progresses but that's not how progress works mate. Lust is not a dps cooldown, it's a oh shit we can't pass this phase otherwise cooldown. You use not because it's optimal with dps, you use it when you cannot otherwise progress in the fight, and once you're familiar with the phase, you start again and you don't use bl on that phase to push even further.

    I'm using HFC as an example because it's actually the most recent exemple we could use it for, without actual experience in legion, Christ, are you familiar with examples?

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