Will Arms be viable in Legion?

[Jadieon]

I really wanna use Arms for my mythic progression raiding team, but Fury looks sooo much stronger.

Will Arms even be viable or will Fury just blow it out?

[Aggrophobic]

No, fury does not look that much stronger.

[Tentonaxe]

No one knows for sure, since they could very well make a huge tuning pass a week to a few weeks in.

[Warriorsarri]

Currently Arms is the best spec, not Fury.

[Valkaneer]

Currently Arms is the best spec, not Fury.

Does arm really scale up that much? It looks terrible on Warcraft logs atm like rock bottom.

[Sethanor]

Does arm really scale up that much? It looks terrible on Warcraft logs atm like rock bottom.

pre-patch ...

arms is HEAVILY depending on its artifact. also, all the balance has been done for 110, so as every pre-patch: current logs are pointless

[TummyBoy]

Does arm really scale up that much? It looks terrible on Warcraft logs atm like rock bottom.

I wondered the same. However, we need to take into account the fact that few warriors on the Beta are playing arms. Those who are playing arms are not necessarily using the correct build or rotation to maximize their damage.

I've seen youtube videos of arms performing incredibly well with a skilled player.

Can't really trust logs that much.

[GT4]

In case you're interested, the top Arms build on simc currently gets +78% damage from artifact (full points excluding unbreakable steel vs. no artifact ability and no artifact traits). On top of my head, shadow (when specced surrender to madness) is the only other spec at a similar level (+75%). All other classes and specs fall in the 30-60% range. Just shattered defenses and corrupted blood of zakajz already provide more of a damage increase than some specs' whole artifact does.

As for why you don't see any of that: Most beta warriors are playing fury. Most arms warriors in general are using the wrong build (no FR/DC/AM) and the wrong stats (high crit when crit is actually the worst stat and haste/mastery scale incredibly well).

[Sparkidy]

All other classes and specs fall in the 30-60% range.

Where did you find that? Is there somewhere where the info is collated for each spec, or is that just from your own learnings?

[Deleted]

Where did you find that? Is there somewhere where the info is collated for each spec, or is that just from your own learnings?

You can easily simcraft spec with full artifact weapon and one with empty and calculate the difference.
Last time I tried that with arms it was like 160k with empty weapon and 240k with partly full weapon.

[Warriorsarri]

Have to keep in mind that there's a few profiles that simply don't have a good API for an artifact-less setup. For example Arms would be even worse without it's artifact in Sim-C if I wouldn't have put in some time in order to make the API work for the Pre-Patch.

[Onslaught49]

Warriorsarri sorry to ask this again, but the standared IftK arms build is on par with fury atm right? in middle of the pack? ii only ask because i REEALY want to play arms but cannot stand the FR build, if the standared IftK build can still do good dmg like fury then im more than willing to make a "dps" sacrifice by not playing the FR build in favor of a build i enjoy, i just dont want to be bad dps (totally ok with middle of the pack )

[GT4]

You can easily simcraft spec with full artifact weapon and one with empty and calculate the difference.
Last time I tried that with arms it was like 160k with empty weapon and 240k with partly full weapon.

That was before MS cooldown and resets were fixed. It's a lot higher now.

- - - Updated - - -

Have to keep in mind that there's a few profiles that simply don't have a good API for an artifact-less setup. For example Arms would be even worse without it's artifact in Sim-C if I wouldn't have put in some time in order to make the API work for the Pre-Patch.

Last time I checked, the Arms APL was fine for non-artifact play. It might not be optimal (no APL truly is) but I challenge you to get more than maybe 5% damage (and that's assuming I oversaw something fairly significant) over the current one.

If you look at damage distribution, the two major traits are simply extremely strong compared to those of other classes. For the BiS profile you get like >13% out of the corrupted blood major and ~20% out of shattered defenses.

Blizzard themselves have stated that they once balanced classes without artifacts and then balanced artifacts on their own... that actually explains a lot. It explains a) why the artifact is so much stronger with a FR build than most other classes' artifacts (it was never balanced around such a specific talent setup) and b) why with both combined a FR setup outshines others by a ton (talent setups were balanced before taking into account artifacts).

[mmomercer]

Simcraft only has the 6.2.3 build. How is everyone testing their APLs??

[GT4]

Simcraft only has the 6.2.3 build. How is everyone testing their APLs??

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc

There have been 7.0.X builds for months.

[mmomercer]

Well someone needs to update simulationcraft.org/

Thanks.

[Deleted]

Well someone needs to update simulationcraft.org/

Thanks.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

[Stilllogicz]

Currently Arms is the best spec, not Fury.

Would you recommend leveling as Arms instead of Fury then and maxing out the artifact before Fury?

[Warriorsarri]

That was before MS cooldown and resets were fixed. It's a lot higher now.

- - - Updated - - -



Last time I checked, the Arms APL was fine for non-artifact play. It might not be optimal (no APL truly is) but I challenge you to get more than maybe 5% damage (and that's assuming I oversaw something fairly significant) over the current one.

If you look at damage distribution, the two major traits are simply extremely strong compared to those of other classes. For the BiS profile you get like >13% out of the corrupted blood major and ~20% out of shattered defenses.

Blizzard themselves have stated that they once balanced classes without artifacts and then balanced artifacts on their own... that actually explains a lot. It explains a) why the artifact is so much stronger with a FR build than most other classes' artifacts (it was never balanced around such a specific talent setup) and b) why with both combined a FR setup outshines others by a ton (talent setups were balanced before taking into account artifacts).

As the guy who keeps them up to date, I'd say I do know that it's close enough to optimal for Live, as I made it close to optimal. As I've done all but the latest version of the Arms API (Col found a few things to improve upon while I was on a vacation), I know it's strengths and weaknesses. That said tho, I don't mean to be aggressive, or in any way other way belittle you, just wanted to point out that, in general, I know what I'm talking about.

[Trep]

I like both playstyles, so "play what you enjoy" doesn't work for me, as well as I am in a guild who is extremely competitive this this patch, especially in the Melee dept. With this being said I find myself in a position of not knowing which artifact I should be going for because I will need to be pushing out every ounce of DPS I can to make the cut. No one on beta can attest to the comparison of Fury vs Arms atm? I personally figured Arms would pull way ahead of Fury simply due to the low levels of Haste at the beginning of an expansion for Fury.