Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Deleted
    i dont know how you people can even argue about this, a design that forces people to avoid most content to not lose progression is bad.

    reminds me of The Last Remnant where you had to avoid as many fights as possible until you got max party size.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad View Post
    Mythic are disable for 1 week so no EU free resets. You can skip suramar and still get AK rank 1.

    Btw is nothing impossibile to fix, just disable AK % for Suramar Quest, increase a bit (like 100->200AP) the quest reward and let AK works for DAILY/WEEKLY content.
    Mythic are disabled until the weekly reset for the server - roughly 6 hours for US (Tuesday 6AM PDT?) and 31 hours for EU (Wednesday 6AM BST?). Normally this would mean EU gets 24 hours to complete the first weekly lockout, but in this case since Mythic is disabled until that reset, it means neither get a real advantage (time wise US, but no additional lockout).

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Nague View Post
    i dont know how you people can even argue about this, a design that forces people to avoid most content to not lose progression is bad.

    reminds me of The Last Remnant where you had to avoid as many fights as possible until you got max party size.
    It is bad, but I think a design where the rewards are effectively useless is worst.

  4. #64
    It's not like AP rewards vanish. You'll always be able to do something to get it. Skipping everything until later is just silly.

  5. #65
    Hmm it is weird why they changed the previous system in Surumar, quests did not scale but gave a quite sizable amount for early ranks of artifact knowledge. That way you could do quests as much as you wanted to without having to worry, now it adds all kinds of small things to worry about if you want to min max.

    I haven't done any quests in surumar since mid/late July though, did they change things or are a lot of the quest lines still not required to unlock the dungeons and such? As far as I know at least stuff like the naga quests, the legion demon area and probably a few others did not give any rep and didn't appear to be required for the main story either. Do they have any purpose, such as unlocking additional world quests? Because if not then you could at least just save those quest chains.

    Also what about the rep quests, for hitting certain ranks, are they even required to complete? I guess the numbers have been changed but if I recall correctly hitting exalted was something like 50k. Even if it's nerfed to only 5-10k, that's still 1-2 million AP at artifact knowledge 25. I guess at the very least saving the revered and exalted reward quests is a decent idea.
    Last edited by Fleckens; 2016-08-24 at 04:12 AM.

  6. #66
    Deleted
    So I guess it's still not fixed?
    AP from quests, surumar and treasures still scale with AK?

    I guess the question is if you will gain that AP back doing world quests and dungeons at the time when you would instead go back and do leveling quests and treasures.

  7. #67
    Titan I Push Buttons's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    11,244
    I wouldn't bother skipping Suramar, I highly doubt Blizzard will leave this unchanged.

    The ramifications of them not changing it are that the handful of quest chain conclusion rewards from Suramar would be worth upwards of 25 million AP a few months into the expansion. I am pretty sure Blizzard does not want people to instantly gain 25,000,000 AP at AK 25.

    The whole point of AK is a catch up mechanic... It wouldn't really be a catch up if it just skipped everything. It would be tantamount to people making alts/coming late into WoD just starting and instantly getting into the final stage of the Legendary ring quest. 25m AP would take you well into the Artifact Paragon levels.
    Last edited by I Push Buttons; 2016-08-24 at 06:39 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Did all this theorycrafting take into account the gear you will lose by not taking part in world quests, dungeons, etc? A lot of the world quest rewards are based on your current ilevel. I can't see 2-3 trait points overpowering a handful of gear upgrades.

    But if you really want to delay playing the game for 3 weeks to get a 3 trait boost, knock yourself out. Why even play the game?
    Please read what I wrote again and more carefully this time. I never said to skip world quests. World quests are a renewable daily resource for AP. Suramar story quests and treasures are one time only.

    The Suramar quests also don't reward any gear that will be better than what you'll get from your heroics and mythics anyway. The only reason to do Suramar early is to gain access to the two mythic suramar dungeons, and they don't drop any higher ilevel gear than the rest of the regularly accessed dungeons.

    It's not really up for discussion of opinion. It's fact that waiting to do Suramar quests until about 2 and half weeks in will net you a substantially larger amount of AP before raids open than had you done them as soon as you were able to, which will result in you being about 2-3 full artifact traits ahead of everyone else. (Which yes, is a huge deal. Especially for progression-minded raiders.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It's not like AP rewards vanish. You'll always be able to do something to get it. Skipping everything until later is just silly.
    Wrong. One time-only AP rewards (treasures and suramar quests), do in fact vanish after they are completed. And in the first three weeks of the expansion, a HUGE amount of your AP will come from Suramar quests alone.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Shad View Post
    http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8135380?page=3


    TL;DR - AK will make people skip traesure/rare/suramar quest until raid unlocks for min max AP GAIN - ruining the levelling experience.


    So please, help people on Feedback, address this issue on Blizzard forum until they fix it, -6/-7 days to launch.
    Did you not read the blue post? It's already hotfixed on beta, just not tooltip fixed

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    That's incorrect because if you spent that time in mythic dungeons or even heroics instead of suramar quests you would be ahead.
    Wrong again. The Suramar quests, especially later in the chains, give so much AP that they blow the AP you'd get from spamming dungeons out of the water. Past your first random heroic, the AP drops to a quarter of what your first run was, and mythic dungeons can only be farmed for AP once per week per dungeon. Mythic+, which is more spammable as long as your group has keystones, doesn't open until the same day as Emerald Nightmare.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Did you not read the blue post? It's already hotfixed on beta, just not tooltip fixed
    I don't mean to sound rude, but where in that blue post does it mention the tooltips or the AK scaling Suramar Quest/Treasure rewards? The only thing the blue post mentions is the bug with Void Storage being fixed. Nothing more.
    Last edited by Servasus; 2016-08-24 at 07:43 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    I don't mean to sound rude, but where in that blue post does it mention the tooltips or the AK scaling Suramar Quest/Treasure rewards? The only thing the blue post mentions is the bug with Void Storage being fixed. Nothing more.
    The whole point is that the exploit was putting them in Void Storage to reset their AK %. Anything you earn such as treasures / Suramar isn't an exploit and is intended in it's current form. If Blizzard feels this is too powerful then they will change it, but currently it is intended so no, not an exploit.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    The whole point is that the exploit was putting them in Void Storage to reset their AK %. Anything you earn such as treasures / Suramar isn't an exploit and is intended in it's current form. If Blizzard feels this is too powerful then they will change it, but currently it is intended so no, not an exploit.
    The OP's poor choice for a thread title is not my concern. I'm not arguing that the way the Suramar items and treasure scale is an exploit. I'm arguing that the system right now is broken because it encourages raiders who intend to enter The Emerald Nightmare during week one to hold off on doing Suramar quests for at least a couple weeks after the expansion launches in order to get way more AP from those one-time sources of AP.

    If I want to do my Suramar quests immediately at launch, suddenly I am 2-3 full traits behind someone who waited until right before the raid opened. How is that good design?
    Last edited by Servasus; 2016-08-24 at 08:00 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    No one here is arguing that the way the Suramar items and treasure scale is an exploit.
    Um....the title itself is "Artifact Knowledge EXPLOIT". This to me sounds like people are saying it's an exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    We're arguing that the system right now is broken because it encourages raiders who intend to enter The Emerald Nightmare during week one to hold off on doing Suramar quests for at least a couple weeks after the expansion launches in order to get way more AP from those one-time sources of AP.

    If I want to do my Suramar quests immediately at launch, suddenly I am 2-3 full traits behind someone who waited until right before the raid opened. How is that good design?
    How is this any different than the past where people rushed to level cap to spam dungeons to get perfect gear or any other thing in the past that would give an edge in raids? The difference is that it's more obtainable by everyone.

    People are also forgetting the following that when Legion launches your initial research will be 5 days + 5 days, etc. As time goes on through Legion that time will be shorter and shorter (catch-up mechanic). This is 21 days or 4 Artifact researches putting the bonus at 140%. So the bonus isn't game breaking and should reward those who wait instead of burning artifact power. Secondly, most people's early traits aren't going to be that great either so it's not going to be game breaking there. Overall you are probably going to look at I would say 2-5% boost overall which let's face it is the least of the worries when raids will be released. People will more than likely use other unintended means to bypass stuff.

    I get that you feel upset because you and others wanted to do Suramar immediately. You have a choice though. Do Suramar and get your Artifact Power right then and there or hold on to it for a possible boost. The only people this will drastically effect are the people pushing World First as they will be trying to get max orders to stock pile while most people won't be.

    Also, most of the people that would do this will also be doing world quests for artifact power so not everything they will get is boosted. Treasures offer peanuts in terms of Artifact Power (ranging from 10-25 putting it at 14-35 AP). Suramar quests award 7950 Artifact Power and 11,130 with the max boost. Now you can easily get to 16-18 via questing to 100 only. So by then you are only gaining 1 level maybe 2.

    Even if they wait 4 more days (still in the raid week) it'll be at 200% would put it at 15900 still within the 2 levels.

    It's one of those cases where we are making mountains out of molehills.

  14. #74
    I don't think choosing to ignore content until you can get more of a reward from it is an exploit. The Void Storage bug was of course.

  15. #75
    I only skimmed through the thread to get an idea of what the issue is, so I apologize if this was already brought up.

    Aren't two of the mythic dungeons locked behind suramar completion? Is it worth delaying your Main's access to those(and the gear from them) worth it just to be a little more efficient a few weeks before raids?
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2016-08-24 at 09:34 AM. Reason: I hate my phone.

  16. #76
    I thought they made all of the suramar quest rewards besides the Mythic Arcway/Court of Stars not scale with AK. I remember seeing on the tooltips for the 500 AP tokens "this item does not scale with artifact knowledge"; could be wrong.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabloks View Post
    I thought they made all of the suramar quest rewards besides the Mythic Arcway/Court of Stars not scale with AK. I remember seeing on the tooltips for the 500 AP tokens "this item does not scale with artifact knowledge"; could be wrong.
    They changed it a week or so again so everything scales with Artifact Knowledge because in the past it was hit or miss on what it did so it wasn't worth it as much as it should be. Especially when gearing up alts (catchup) and sub specs.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    I wouldn't bother skipping Suramar, I highly doubt Blizzard will leave this unchanged.

    The ramifications of them not changing it are that the handful of quest chain conclusion rewards from Suramar would be worth upwards of 25 million AP a few months into the expansion. I am pretty sure Blizzard does not want people to instantly gain 25,000,000 AP at AK 25.

    The whole point of AK is a catch up mechanic... It wouldn't really be a catch up if it just skipped everything. It would be tantamount to people making alts/coming late into WoD just starting and instantly getting into the final stage of the Legendary ring quest. 25m AP would take you well into the Artifact Paragon levels.
    It looks like all the super high end AP rewards are gone. You use to get 25000 AP for exalted, now it looks like its only 2500. Which def suggests that this was a deliberate change and not a glitch or bug.

  19. #79
    Deleted
    Ok maybe the title EXPLOIT when Void Storage was already fixed, was too much.

    But i dont care, if this title can grab more attention.


    If i had wrote "fix this ez mode for farm AP" people would have not cared.


    The issue is, like other people more prepared than "hurr durr dont skip suramar there are 2 dungeon, really mandatory...rofl" have already shows that holding until the last minute before raiding, is a huge boost.


    This shit has to be fixed, just make Suramar quest dont scale with AK.
    Last edited by mmocbfa8dc246d; 2016-08-24 at 09:52 AM.

  20. #80
    Let me be more clear: It's not like your ability to gain AP will vanish.

    For the next 2 years there will be multiple options for gaining AP. Whether or not you go insane min-maxing AP gain, you could just step right into the next AP gaining activity instead.

    Of course, making sensible suggestions of moderation to hardcore min-maxers is like pissing against the wind.
    Last edited by Blur4stuff; 2016-08-24 at 09:57 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •