Sylvanas is evil

[Deleted]

Did I step on a nerve here or something? Some of you are insulting me over a character discussion?

I never stated I don't like the character, on the contrary. What I did state though is that two cinematics where she's put in a position to do good, does not retcon her character.

From what we've seen of her she is evil, at least for the standards of the living. Of all the warchiefs the Horde has had, she is the one who cares the least and can do the most damage.

[Deleted]

The recent writing of Sylvanas seems poor: she was on a path of fairly unambigous evil at the end of MOP after the "betrayal" by her sister and was supposed to be primarily motivated by avoiding her own damnation. Nothing she did in the Broken Shore suggested any continuity with that. Why would she risk her life to protect Varian, when she is risking going straight to hell?
It reminds me of Garrosh's u-turn on bombing cities.

[Deleted]

By the way Sylvanas going above and beyond the orders of Garrosh and bombing Gilneas is fine, but Jaina is crazy for doing the same against the horde...

[TheDestinatus]

You know what I want to know, since when did Sylvanas have vampire fangs?

[Deleted]

Yes she is evil, and yes the Forsaken as a whole are what we would concider evil.

But it's no point to discuss it, there are some people that don't want to hear it.

[Ryzeth]

By the way Sylvanas going above and beyond the orders of Garrosh and bombing Gilneas is fine, but Jaina is crazy for doing the same against the horde...

Garrosh wanted her to capture Gilneas, so that he could use it as a port in Lordaeron for Horde forces. She did that, albeit she was thwarted afterwards by the betrayal of Godfrey etc. She did not go against any orders; she was not forbidden from using the plague as a whole, she was forbidden from using the plague that was used at the Wrathgate; an order she followed. They used a weaker strand, that they were PERMITTED to use.

Jaina is crazy because she wants to go full genocide on the Horde, because of the actions of Garrosh. Who was not supported by literally any of the Horde. Very, very strong difference there buddy. Not to mention trying to completely bar the Horde from the Kirin Tor despite everyone else on the council not supporting said decision.

You're either horribly, horribly biased and shortsighted... Or you're retarded. Which one is it? This is coming from someone who happens to like both Jaina and Varian, too.

[CaptainV]

I recently played Warcraft 3 and TFT again, especially TFT which really gets to show you alot more of Sylvanas and her rise to power.

I will be honest, she is pretty damn evil and has been quite consistant with that throughout. Lets detail a few things she did in her lifetime from TFT to Now:

In the frozen throne, she is freed from Arthas control after Illidan tries to destroy Icecrown with the Eye of Sargeras, this freedom allows her to manipulate the local living populace into helping her defeat the dreadlords that command Lordaeron. She uses her banshee's to possess bandits, ogres, and murlocs into fighting for her and killing her foes. Then, she manipulated Garithos, the not-so-honorable racist human leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron's remenant into helping her defeat Balnazzar and take Lordaeron for her. After which, she forces Varimathras to break a sacred Dreadlord vow and kill his own brother, then, betrays the not-so-honorable Garithos and gives him a justly brutal ending.

She even vows then and there that she will slaughter anyone that stands in her way, being the first footsteps of her rise to power.

She intended to create the plague as early as Vanillia wow and only in Wrath because of Varimathras trechery she was somewhat foiled because he used it against her.

In Cata she decides to do alot more than just kill Genn's son and turn Gilneas into a plague ridden fallout 4 wasteland. She also invades Silverpine unprovoked, kills a Kirin'tor village without any justified reason other than needing the magi on her side which sounds more like mind control than free choice.

In Hillsbrad, you find that her own loyal subjects are going too far for even their own experiments to be acceptable when one of the plagued camps has most of its residents turned into scourge like abominations. She turns Hillsbrad into a swamp of death and disease especially southshore which is permanently destroyed by her plague attacks.

She destroys the Alliance there and finishes off the Kirin'tor that remained at the restoration project, then adding insult to injury, she goes to WPL, where the Alliance and Argent Crusade are rebuilding the land, and destroys Andorhal a second time to prevent the Alliance ever rebuilding, and plagues several farms nearby causing the Argent Crusade to grow heavily concerned.

She even captures Koltria just because he tried to save lives by honoring a friendship he had with Thaussaurian.

Finally, she tried to take over Arathi by raising Danath's Nephew and fails, and is thwarted in Alterac when she tries to plague it aswell.

Her entire storyline was driven entirley by a mad desire for expansion and power at every opportunity. In the novels she tries to kill her -own- sister and turn her into an undead by peacefully convincing her to come to undercity with the plan of murdering her when she arrives. It fails mostly because Vareesa decides she loves her kids too much to go with Sylvanas, which causes her to have a hissy fit and allegedly murder most of Tristfals Wildlife.

And after -all- this you wonder if shes a good guy?

Legion has been the first actual sign that Sylvanas has shown a redeeming quality. I think Sylvanas is an interesting redeemed villian if they go down that route because I want her to be like Garrosh, unappologetic and merciless but now that she understands she must lead more than just the dead, perhaps she will finally learn to have unity with the living.

She reminds me of Rick Grimes from walking dead, shes seen some serious shit, shes done some seriously bad things and questionable things. And yet despite all this, Sylvanas may be exactly -what- the Horde needs as a leader, to survive.

Someone that is willing to be an utter bitch to make the people safe. Someone that "will" use the plague without hesitation on the enemies of the Horde and raise their dead to bolster her ranks.

Someone that will intimidate her allies into serving her, in order to protect them and keep them under her banner.

Someone who "will" listen to the guidence of Baine, of Lor'themar and -consider- their proposals, enough so, to be a more accepted tyrant than Garrosh was.

As Vol'jin said it best:

"But you MUST Step outta da shadows... and lead..."

A quote that honestly gives me shivers to this day, that literally was the one thing she needed to hear, that she cant run anymore, she cant pretend she doesnt have a responsiblity to those around her, or to what shes done.

If she is really going to commit to this path, she must do it for the sake of everyone around her, not just herself, and her people.

That, is what interests me, what path will the Banshee Queen take... now that shes been -forced- to step into the light.

[Deleted]

Garrosh wanted her to capture Gilneas, so that he could use it as a port in Lordaeron for Horde forces. She did that, albeit she was thwarted afterwards by the betrayal of Godfrey etc. She did not go against any orders; she was not forbidden from using the plague as a whole, she was forbidden from using the plague that was used at the Wrathgate; an order she followed. They used a weaker strand, that they were PERMITTED to use.

Jaina is crazy because she wants to go full genocide on the Horde, because of the actions of Garrosh. Who was not supported by literally any of the Horde. Very, very strong difference there buddy. Not to mention trying to completely bar the Horde from the Kirin Tor despite everyone else on the council not supporting said decision.

You're either horribly, horribly biased and shortsighted... Or you're retarded. Which one is it? This is coming from someone who happens to like both Jaina and Varian, too.

Here's the difference between the horde and the alliance though. Despite all her hatred, people voted and the horde were allowed.

And don't give me that "weaker strand" bullcrap. Playing through the storyline as Worgen doesn't explain you this. And why was it narrated the way it was narrated? The horde emissary told her to NOT use the plague on Gilneas, orders from Garrosh. She waited for him to go and then ordered her general to bomb the city with the plague. Why not do it in front of the orc, why behind his back?

[Rend Blackhand]

The bias for Sylvanas is so strong it's ridiculous.

She's evil. She's consistently been evil ever since Arthas made her what she is.

In Gilneas she killed Genn's son just to spite the worgen, she outright lied to the horde emissary, she disobeyed the orders of Garrosh, her Warchief, and bombed Gilneas with the Plague.

Yet Genn and Jaina get the most crap. They are right though and justified in their actions. The alliance is screwed either way. What good will it be if we defeat the Legion only to go under yet again, just this time it will be to a dark lady instead of a dark lord.

She's hot though, I guess that excuses all her actions.

Lol.

Just, lol.

Oh and by the way, Liam Greymane died from suicide by sacrifice.

[Sarix]

Sylvanas is evil? In other news water is wet

[Deleted]

If she is really going to commit to this path, she must do it for the sake of everyone around her, not just herself, and her people.

That, is what interests me, what path will the Banshee Queen take... now that shes been -forced- to step into the light.

That's exactly the part that both interests me as well but also terrifies me that, if done even remotely wrong, will make her otherwise exciting character fall apart and lose its' appeal. She's the only true evil leader of any of the races left and she was always the 'alternative' to the usual fantasy tropes. If she ends up with redemption it'll be a cool story for sure - I have faith Blizzard will deliver - but what about the unique dynamic she brought to the table? If she becomes a goody-two-shoes we'll need something to balance it. I mean, who's currently the second most evil leader of the factions? Gallywix, probably. Do we really want that sidekick to puns to be the most evil racial leader..? His problem is he's not actualy evil he's more Chaotic Neutral which means we'll be entirely without any racial leader even in the evil allignment zone.

[Lochton]

@Nheela, I think people are just digging at you because even your post was highly bias.

[Sin Cara]

If she wasn't evil, she wouldn't be going to hell, which she so adamantly tries to avoid.
I like her, but it's pretty obvious that she doesn't really give a shit about anything.

[Deleted]

@Nheela, I think people are just digging at you because even your post was highly bias.

If not condemning Genn/Jaina and at the same time praising Sylvanas for being hot and awesome is being biased, I guess I am.

I get it though, I understand people find Sylvanas cool and want her to be a great leader. It's just that a lot of retconning needs to happen for her to actually become that.

[Ryzeth]

Here's the difference between the horde and the alliance though. Despite all her hatred, people voted and the horde were allowed.

Except the Kirin Tor are a neutral 'faction' not tied specifically to alliance or horde. It was Jaina, specifically, who vetoed them out of the Kirin Tor. Not the Kirin Tor as a whole; were it not for Jaina, they wouldn't have been removed in the first place. At all.

Doesn't matter what you play through as a Worgen. Read the entirety of the law rather than cherrypicking whatever suits your side of the discussion.

[thilicen]

Fair enough.

[Rend Blackhand]

You know what I want to know, since when did Sylvanas have vampire fangs?

All elves have the fangs. back when they were still carnivorous Trolls they had sharp teeth and tusks which have disappeared over time but the prominent canines are still there.

You can see them if you focus on Night Elves and Blood Elves in game.

[Arrashi]

Sylvanas is basically pewdiepie at this point.

[Deleted]

The Kirin Tor is a faction founded by human mages and has been in good relations or even allies with different alliance factions through the years. I'd say they are pretty tied with the alliance.

[Lazuli]

Sylvanas has only cared only about herself and the undead, which are just her pawns, since the beginning. Anything non undead she don't give a shit about.

But in true Blizzard fashion, she is going to do a complete 180 in Legion and become a good guy because why the fuck not. Her 'emotion' in the cinematic felt so forced it was awkward to watch imo.

Now watch as the actual good guy, Genn, who is pissed over the murder of his son (yeah yeah he saved his father by taking the arrow), becomes the bad guy.

All retarded and pointless drama to fuel the fire for the non existing horde vs alliance story. It's time to let it go Blizz.. we got bigger fish to fry and actual lore to flesh out instead of this garbage.