[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[RuneDK]

@Hctaz horn of winter is high up for now because of the fact that we won't be resource capped for the first raid. However frozen pulse is a very strong talent. The only problem is it's incredibly shitty gameplay. Logs on both beta and live prove how strong frozen pulse is.

[Timberwind]

I... wanted to take you seriously but Frozen Pulse? That talent is like utter garbo from what I've seen/heard. HoW is miles better even for AoE. I suppose I could see Avalanche being used in AoE fights.

Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I legitimately haven't seen anything about IT or Frozen Pulse being a thing ever on any guide, forum post, simulator, or the google doc that the DKs came up with be it level 100 prepatch or level 110.

Can Confirm, When played correctly, Frozen Pulse does rediculous damage, I was skeptical at first, but it ESPECIALLY shines if there are more than 2 targets (pretty often) it quickly becomes top 3 in terms of pure output.

[bobthelob]

So,

What exactly is the rotation priority if you use FSc and Glacial Advance and Avalanche?

Also, with FSc it seems like I get way more runic power so I guess it requires more dumps with FS? Trying to figure this out D:

[Gemini Soul]

So,

What exactly is the rotation priority if you use FSc and Glacial Advance and Avalanche?

Also, with FSc it seems like I get way more runic power so I guess it requires more dumps with FS? Trying to figure this out D:

GA should be used on CD even on ST

FScy on 2+ with KM, Fscy on 3+ w/o KM with at least 25% crit other wise FScy on 4+ w/o KM. As for FScy w/ KM on ST that depends on your mastery which needed to be around X%

As for Avalanche that is a passive so no rotation priority change with that.

[bobthelob]

GA should be used on CD even on ST

FScy on 2+ with KM, Fscy on 3+ w/o KM with at least 25% crit other wise FScy on 4+ w/o KM. As for FScy w/ KM on ST that depends on your mastery which needed to be around 70% i think.

As for Avalanche that is a passive so no rotation priority change with that.

So obliterate if 1 target u still obliterate with fsc? It doesn't fully replace oil?

[Gemini Soul]

So obliterate if 1 target u still obliterate with fsc? It doesn't fully replace oil?

You use OB vs 1 all the time, until you reach X% mastery and only then do you FScy with KM on ST.

[bobthelob]

You use OB vs 1 all the time, until you reach ~70% mastery and only then do you FScy with KM on ST.

Gotcha ty, so you fsc all the time once mastery is at 70% and then do u focus on haste? Also is all this information viable in legion or will it change at 110

[Baddok21]

You use OB vs 1 all the time, until you reach ~70% mastery and only then do you FScy with KM on ST.

you only need 38.9% mastery for FSc to be worth more on a single target then Obliterate with KM. after the Razor Ice fix the goal post was pushed back to 23% idk where u get this 70% mastery requirement.

[Lucrece]

[RuneDK]

When did mastery at 70% become the norm for km+FSc on single target? Pretty confident it was a stupidly low number....reading the googledoc which I'm not sure when the last time it was updated it said 52-70% as well....could've sworn the magic number was exceptionally low...like 39% unless that was strictly for prepatch..

- - - Updated - - -

you only need 38.9% mastery for FSc to be worth more on a single target then Obliterate with KM. after the Razor Ice fix the goal post was pushed back to 23% idk where u get this 70% mastery requirement.

The googledoc says 52-70%

[Gemini Soul]

Shouldn't link results with out a source for people to check out.

[Garlee]

I saw 38%40% Was the number for mastery. I'm at 36% and Frostsyche always hits harder than obliterate

[Gemini Soul]

you only need 38.9% mastery for FSc to be worth more on a single target then Obliterate with KM. after the Razor Ice fix the goal post was pushed back to 23% idk where u get this 70% mastery requirement.

When did mastery at 70% become the norm for km+FSc on single target? Pretty confident it was a stupidly low number....reading the googledoc which I'm not sure when the last time it was updated it said 52-70% as well....could've sworn the magic number was exceptionally low...like 39% unless that was strictly for prepatch..

- - - Updated - - -



The googledoc says 52-70%

Last i heard it was 70% which is why in my first post i said IIRC then in the other said approximately, it's changed now.

Once sims are finalized we can test it out and see where the RNG of Rime loss vs Mastery X% for KM-FScy ST intersect at. There should be 2 variables thou Y% mastery where KM-FScy hits harder than KM-OB and Z% mastery where the potential loss of Rime isn't impacted as much.

[Lucrece]

http://obsidianguild.com/sims/results_html.html

Also, you're gonna use frost scythe with KM anyways because it's more damage per rune spent. Frost Scythe costs 1 rune, and Oblit is double the cost for a bit higher damage outside Obliteration cd.

[RuneDK]

Wow....those sim results look spectacularly shitty for both specs...

[Gemini Soul]

http://obsidianguild.com/sims/results_html.html

Also, you're gonna use frost scythe with KM anyways because it's more damage per rune spent. Frost Scythe costs 1 rune, and Oblit is double the cost for a bit higher damage outside Obliteration cd.

The Unholy profile looks messed up, high crit instead of haste and All Will serve talent.

Rune cost yeah, but Rime is still a factor a flat 45% chance to proc from OB.

[Maxweii]

Wow....those sim results look spectacularly shitty for both specs...

It's an incredibly inaccurate sim what else do you expect.

Frozen Pulse, at 110, is an utter shite talent. Damage wise it does its job well for sure. However it goes against the specs flow entirely to make good use of it. You have to alter your rotation so much that you never want any runes, and that means dumping runes asap and even holding onto runic power for small bits of time to hopefully not proc rune regen. Every other build has a nice flow to it, where your expenditure and intake of runes and runic power is steady, flowing, and has ways to supplement it so that there's never a point where you don't have something to be able to do in a given situation. Relying on being rune starved just isn't a smart plan, because you rely on a passive damage AoE around you to do everything. Anything just spawned, you likely have to wait to put dots on, wait to use Frostscythe on, wait to use RW. It just doesn't work well with what Frost turned into in Legion.
So it remains damage wise, a good choice, but the actual difference between it and not having it, is really hard to tell because you alter your rotation so much to make it viable. Saying 'it was my third in damage' means about as much as saying you were able to misplay an entire fight, and rank high.

- - - Updated - - -

The Unholy profile looks messed up, high crit instead of haste and All Will serve talent.

Rune cost yeah, but Rime is still a factor a flat 45% chance to proc from OB.

All will serve, if there's no movement, does really good damage now. It had some fixes recently that helped it.

[Gemini Soul]

Honestly i think Frost should do more damage than Unholy at 110 with Artifact, because Unholy can talent for slightly better mobility, has more utility, way better survivability.

- - - Updated - - -

All will serve, if there's no movement, does really good damage now. It had some fixes recently that helped it.

Movement isn't a problem any more, i was running around using CS and the sulker would follow me and my SCT showed him doing his dmg with even thou he was moving with me. This was a few weeks ago thou, but if some one else could confirm it would be nice.

Once we get the artifact and get that +10% shadow damage and mainly Plaguebearer Ebon Fever should be the way to go.

[Maxweii]

Honestly i think Frost should do more damage than Unholy at 110 with Artifact, because Unholy can talent for slightly better mobility, has more utility, way better survivability.

- - - Updated - - -



Movement isn't a problem any more, i was running around using CS and the sulker would follow me and my SCT showed him doing his dmg with even thou he was moving with me. This was a few weeks ago thou, but if some one else could confirm it would be nice.

Once we get the artifact and get that +10% shadow damage and mainly Plaguebearer Ebon Fever should be the way to go.

He's still just kinda fucky when it comes to movement. Can shoot on the move no problem, but sometimes just decides not to.

[Piz813]

No, actually haha.
Stuff like the frost DK FaQ google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.8irysmoyffdo

as well as multiple other credible sources and personal testing. Seems like it's good but only if you can get it to work and that would mean that you're essentially really unlucky with resource procs or you're dumping one solo rune on nothing just to get this thing to work. I mean using one rune on a KM Fscy might be that bad... but you'd never just want to use a rune for no reason other than to have no runes solely for this talent. Just seems bad. Like.. "Oh i just used FScy and it didn't crit but hey now my auto attacks are useful"
Generally speaking, I'm ALWAYS using an ability currently on live. I suppose at lower levels of haste this won't be a thing but I'm currently only at 16% haste.


Edit: The google doc is stated to be a work in progress but it has been updated semi recently. Like in the last week or so as far as I can tell today.

you are still wrong with no facts other then an outdated google doc that has not been touched in 3 weeks. i check it every day. plus that is for LEVEL 110, not live like how you are basing your feeling on. yes Frozen Pulse kinda stinks at 110 in pre raid gear. on live its amazing.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...est/#boss=1795

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...56287/latest/#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=195750

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...est/#boss=1795

just plug in my name and see for yourself. I will not argue with Maxweii who actually contributes real knowledge here but I personally enjoyed the "burn every run" playstyle the last few weeks of raiding in WoD. Mix of OB and FSc with IT and Avalanche crits dropping bombs on everything. Ranked 5th World for 2 weeks then got bumped to 7th. No biggie. I screen shotted it and have proof.

at 110 THINGS CHANGE. with the Razor Ice fix THINGS CHANGE (kinda). That google doc for Frost is not up to date and they give UH more love there just like every where else.