Vengeance DH bad reputation (7.0.3)

[Deleted]

Hi, this is my first thread and I am sorry if this was already asked.

Will DH tanks get a bad reputation from this early access test on the pre-patch?

I will explain myself better:
I have a really hard time finding a group for a mythic dung or normal/heroic raid as DH. Because many people don't know how to use this new class they get rekt as tanks from mobs and it seems that this made people think that DH are just awful tanks (even if they aren't).
I feel like ostracized because of this, I hope that this will not make people think that if DH tanks are bad now they will be bad even at 110, making us unwanted.

Sorry for my bad english but it's not my native language

[Deleted]

Dont think that will have any effect when ppl see the DHs in 110 dungeons(at some point 4 DHs group just clear Heroic dungeon w/o healer on BETA but later heling for tanks was nerfed abit)But still Vengeance is one of the tanks who you will like to have in Legion (for now)

[PainREIGN]

I haven't found much hate for us yet but have only really ran with guild groups so far other than i seem to not get picked up in group finder for things like kazzak. A lot of people are rolling DH to see what its all about and like all the other classes, they are using tank spec as an way to get fast que times. I am sure it will even out. Worst case is try to run stuff with your guild and if not gear up through invasions. Legion is less than a week away and we get the rest of our talents and artifact weapons. That will separate the wheat from the chaff and then the good vengeance tanks will be known and it will show others that we are capable tanks in the right hands....and hell at least we are not as bad off as poor brewmasters.

TLDR chin up legion is almost here

[Deleted]

I haven't found much hate for us yet but have only really ran with guild groups so far other than i seem to not get picked up in group finder for things like kazzak. A lot of people are rolling DH to see what its all about and like all the other classes, they are using tank spec as an way to get fast que times. I am sure it will even out. Worst case is try to run stuff with your guild and if not gear up through invasions. Legion is less than a week away and we get the rest of our talents and artifact weapons. That will separate the wheat from the chaff and then the good vengeance tanks will be known and it will show others that we are capable tanks in the right hands....and hell at least we are not as bad off as poor brewmasters.

TLDR chin up legion is almost here

You are right, but it's disheartening to see in the comments of the LFG: "No DH tank" or "DH tank not welcome" and so on

[Marrilaife]

I have a really hard time finding a group for a mythic dung or normal/heroic raid as DH.

It's just there are too many of them. Also many people seem to just fool around with them, see the thread about not using blade dance on single target (doesn't affect tanks but same premise), most people answered "it's prepatch, content doesn't matter, I wanna have some fun on a new class, stop being such a fun spoiler", so generally if they don't take it seriously why should anyone take them seriously?

And btw it was exactly the same in WOTLK with DKs. I levelled mine not even at the start of xpac (my main was a resto druid back then), but a bit later when the biggest overcrowding and oversaturation passed a bit, and still, it was before lfd (dungeon queue) and often I saw "lf tank last spot no dk", had to argue and haggle my way in, and it was even weirder because you could supposedly tank and dps in any of the 3 dk specs back then just with different builds, but people had their favourities and prejudices "this tree is tank tree", "this tree is dps tree" - at least dhs are spared the confusion.

However doesn't help that dhs are barebones on prepatch with no meaningful talents, their tank meta is a glorified last stand, the pain generation and damage is lacking, rotation is bland.

Most buggy thing I noticed is if you pick vengeance during questing (instead of continue as havoc) you don't get empower wards at 100. You need to respec back and forth to get it in your spellbook after you finish the questline. And it's actually 1 of your mitigation abilities...

[sosleapy]

Just like MoP with brewmasters. People hated them and still didnt want them half way thru in some instances. People have bad expierences with a handful thus not wanting them until you prove them wrong and then they are like oh it aint the class it is the player. I did that alot on my brewmaster. And honestly i love the way DH tanks. I have more survivabilty than even on my prot warrior. i tank world bosses with hardly any issues. It all comes down to knowing how to play. I havent done any dungeons because honestly i think it is a waste of time at this stage in the game. Even doing world bosses it makes me shake my head at the DH tanks trying to tank and failing terribly but then i pick it up right after they die and with no heals tank the world invasion boss thru about 90% of the fight with not much issues according to me.

At this point ppl just need to learn to play them before they start tanking. It only took me a couple days to understand them but everyone learns at different paces.

[Deleted]

/.cut

I mained the DK during WOTLK and I remember the class having almost the same reputation as DHs now. It was an OP class but most people were bad with it (too much brain work to use runes), making it unwanted in raids for low dps , when in reality I could go into ICC 25 as frost with thundefury equipped in the main hand and doing double the dps of all classes there were in the raid.

[sosleapy]

I mained the DK during WOTLK and I remember the class having almost the same reputation as DHs now. It was an OP class but most people were bad with it (too much brain work to use runes), making it unwanted in raids for low dps , when in reality I could go into ICC 25 as frost with thundefury equipped in the main hand and doing double the dps of all classes there were in the raid.

comes down to the player and not the class which can be said for brewmasters and soon DH

[Marrilaife]

I mained the DK during WOTLK and I remember the class having almost the same reputation as DHs now.

You've been there, seen that, so you know how it goes - DH share exactly the same fate as DKs, could be same with monks but monks at least start at lvl 1 so people could either learn them a bit more due to spending more time on them before reaching end game content or be discouraged from rolling them if they only cared about getting to end-game asap (both DK and DH are neat levelling skippers).

Pugging community generally sucks, judges everyone by class and ilvl, since player skill is not written on your forehead or in the tooltip the community immediately assumes it's a non existent factor and creates fake tools to judge people (like "link achiev").

Also prejudices are slow to overcome, for example when they changed disc priest in 7.0 there was a flood of posts both on bnet forums and here about disc priests being vote kicked cuz "they don't heal they dps". Community usually has no clue about changes, doesn't read patch notes or tooltips and goes with sheep mentality. The amount of people claiming there is no glyphs, asking for invite to "lvl 25 guild", believing garrison traders "are random", asking "where is my arcane shot / blade of justice when they took a talent that replaces it and states so in the tooltip, or worst of it, ask on trade chat "which class is good to main for legion", just leaves me with no hope for general population of wow players.

Informed players are usually sticking to the likes of them in their guilds or groups of friends, that's why pugging is usually full of low quality but very opinionated players. There is no unplayable class at a casual level. Yet people seem to claim so. For example you can go on beta as see 95% of the mages being fire. As if the other 2 specs didn't exist or couldn't do damage. Sheep mentality all over the place. Can't believe every single one of them picked fire because they like the playstyle more, it's just they saw other play it, others say it's a good spec and they picked it too.

If they deem let's say arcane mage unplayable, or disc priest unable to heal, or DH a class for noobs, then you have a long way uphill to fight against the urban myths perpetrating the community.

I had a raid leader in a casual guild still tell me late wotlk paladins are for healing and warriors are superior tanks (while he was neither, he was a priest himself) - despite all the class changes, he never mentally exited vanilla.

[sosleapy]

I still remember on my Brewmaster getting into LrR and everyone saying great another brewmaster to only having those same people turn around and message me after 2-3 fights saying sorry you are an awesome brewmaster like they had never seen before.

[Tinykong]

I don't understand how people can't play them, they have just a handful of buttons.

[sosleapy]

I don't understand how people can't play them, they have just a handful of buttons.

Neither can i but i see it everyday in invasions DH starts tanking then he is dead then on to another dead then another dead then after 3-4 i step in and tank for 90% of the boss just fine. so truly idk either

[Marrilaife]

Neither can i but i see it everyday in invasions DH starts tanking then he is dead then on to another dead then another dead then after 3-4 i step in and tank for 90% of the boss just fine. so truly idk either

Invasions are hard to judge, half the time I just completely freeze / lag out halfway during the boss and then just die from people hugging each other with debuffs etc.

[sosleapy]

Invasions are hard to judge, half the time I just completely freeze / lag out halfway during the boss and then just die from people hugging each other with debuffs etc.

I dont have that problem

[Azszora]

I've been having problems getting in mythic dungeon groups, but creating my own group has fixed the issue.

[Fat Mac]

i seem to not get picked up in group finder for things like kazzak.

thats odd. 99.9% of kazzak groups are auto join

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You are right, but it's disheartening to see in the comments of the LFG: "No DH tank" or "DH tank not welcome" and so on

ive never seen this. unless maybe a mythic group who obviously would want a geared tank.

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I don't understand how people can't play them, they have just a handful of buttons.

ive never considered the amount of buttons i have to hit as to whether or not i enjoy a class

[Neudgae]

thats odd. 99.9% of kazzak groups are auto join

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ive never seen this. unless maybe a mythic group who obviously would want a geared tank.

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ive never considered the amount of buttons i have to hit as to whether or not i enjoy a class

the no dh part is every where, so i just say fuck them and solo the content myself/form my own group, in 1 week i went form fresh 680 gear as all dhs do, to ilvl 726 in heroic hfc gear thus putting me almost on par with my mythic druid(rng was a brutal bitch and have no warforged) and i still cant get into pugs

[the boar]

as always "i've personally never seen this" is the worst way to try and argue any point.

but the "no DH" nonsense in the group finder is no different to hfc heroic groups that demand ilvl 720+ and ring + achievement links. it is just group leaders who want to be carried, etc. ignore those groups~
heck even on the beta, you had mythic +3 groups in the finder that had "ilvl 680+" and it is like, dang. but people can do what they want, again, just gotta laugh at these groups and move on.
i think the most amusing part to me overall is how obvious it is. setting a minimum ilvl limit in the title, but not using the actual built-in minimum ilvl setting. gosh, i wonder why :P

anywho. the undesirability of DHs at this point in time is no special personal thing, it is just the same old stuff we see near the end of a tier where people don't want "undergeared" people in their group, for whatever reason, just for the first time a class has launched before the expansion. at 110 it will indeed just be replaced with the old fashion silly ilvl requirements.

[Tinykong]

ive never considered the amount of buttons i have to hit as to whether or not i enjoy a class

Enjoying a class isn't the same thing as knowing how to play it. DH's have just a few abilities, it's pretty hard to imagine someone who doesn't understand "hit this to heal, hit this to DPS, hit this to take less physical/magic damage."

[Fat Mac]

as always "i've personally never seen this" is the worst way to try and argue any point.

im on wow right now. TRYING TO FIND ANY GROUP that says no Demon hunter ... there are ZERO. none. still looking for shits n giggles . il let you know if i find one. they way people talk in this thread i should have found many groups that dont want DHs
is that good enough arguement to call bullshit?

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Enjoying a class isn't the same thing as knowing how to play it. DH's have just a few abilities, it's pretty hard to imagine someone who doesn't understand "hit this to heal, hit this to DPS, hit this to take less physical/magic damage."

oh my bad ..

i read that as " I don't understand how people CAN play them, they have just a handful of buttons.

i agree with your comment. sry