Artifact Knowledge EXPLOIT - Help Fix It

[Isheria]

Skipping suramar and treasures only to do them last week before raids open because artifact knowledge doesn't even give you 1 extra trait but keep believing otherwise.

[Lucetia]

The issue is, like other people more prepared than "hurr durr dont skip suramar there are 2 dungeon, really mandatory...rofl" have already shows that holding until the last minute before raiding, is a huge boost.


This shit has to be fixed, just make Suramar quest dont scale with AK.

Except it doesn't need to be fix and I illustrated why above. There is nothing wrong with. Stop making mountains out of mole hills.

[Deleted]

Sorry but you didnt illustrate nothing.


It is a bad design, and is not unworthy even for skipping 2 dungeon, only sarumar with 5 AK trait is +45k AP vs 15ish.

[Lucetia]

Sorry but you didnt illustrate nothing.


It is a bad design, and is not unworthy even for skipping 2 dungeon, only sarumar with 5 AK trait is +45k AP vs 15ish.

Except I illustrated everything and mathed it out for you. It's only a difference of 4000 Artifact Power. Just because you dislike it doesn't mean that it isn't intended or bad design.

[OrcsRLame]

Sorry but you didnt illustrate nothing.


It is a bad design, and is not unworthy even for skipping 2 dungeon, only sarumar with 5 AK trait is +45k AP vs 15ish.

You can gain more AP in a shorter time by just spamming heroic dungeons with a competent group. If you don't care about the gear from Arcway/CoS you're literally better from an AP per time PoV by just never accepting the quest that sends you to Suramar. If that's what you care about, just don't do it, ever, for the whole expansion.

Or be not irrational and realize that an "extra" 30k AP, (remember, it's a loss in AP per time) is a drop in the bucket compared to the 65,256,230 AP it takes to max a single artifact. You're ludicrously better off unlocking the ability to get gear like this http://www.wowhead.com/item=137419/c...onus=1552:3412 this http://www.wowhead.com/item=134542/j...onus=1552:3412 and this http://www.wowhead.com/item=134488/s...onus=1552:3412 ASAP, before you hit relevant content like mythic Xavius and mythic Gul'dan.

Have you even done the CoS/Arcway grind on beta? It takes an absurd amount of time to unlock.

[miffy23]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=5#post-91

Watcher just clarified it.

[Deleted]

still means we have to delay at least treasures and class hall quest till mythic+ open cuz u dont loose any efficency in regular mythic dungeons without the 3rd relic

[OrcsRLame]

Did all this theorycrafting take into account the gear you will lose by not taking part in world quests, dungeons, etc? A lot of the world quest rewards are based on your current ilevel. I can't see 2-3 trait points overpowering a handful of gear upgrades.

But if you really want to delay playing the game for 3 weeks to get a 3 trait boost, knock yourself out. Why even play the game?

Just so we're clear, an extra 30k AP will not be 2-3 more traits for a dedicated player by the time mythic EN comes out. That will be like ~6% of an trait. I expect to be roughly at 30 traits by day 29 of the expansion. The amount of AP needed to go from 30-31 is 546,000.

[Jotaux]

Wrong again. The Suramar quests, especially later in the chains, give so much AP that they blow the AP you'd get from spamming dungeons out of the water. Past your first random heroic, the AP drops to a quarter of what your first run was, and mythic dungeons can only be farmed for AP once per week per dungeon. Mythic+, which is more spammable as long as your group has keystones, doesn't open until the same day as Emerald Nightmare.

No you are still incorrect, the amount of dungeons you can spam in that time greatly outweighs the ap you get from suramar.

[OrcsRLame]

still means we have to delay at least treasures and class hall quest till mythic+ open cuz u dont loose any efficency in regular mythic dungeons without the 3rd relic

Lol no. Treasures are not worth the time it takes to walk up to the box and click it, and your dps directly affects the speed at which you do content, which means way less AP.

It's like arguing with climate change deniers. The testing and the science behind it just doesn't support what you guys are saying.

[Lucetia]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=5#post-91

Watcher just clarified it.

So basically Watcher is saying what most of us have been saying. Figured as much. Thanks for posting and hopefully those thinking it's an exploit will quiet down (doubtful).

[Deleted]

*shrug*

Not an exploit anymore, but still potentially bad design if any of the quests can be finished by just turning them in, they're almost instant - nothing a heroic dungeon run can ever compete with.

Obviously delaying a whole connected questchain might be a bit pointless if the artifact power rewards are not too high but end of chain quests that give a high reward might well be worth keeping in your quest log till artifact power goes to 25.

[Goshko]

TL;DR - AK will make people skip traesure/rare/suramar quest until raid unlocks for min max AP GAIN - ruining the levelling experience.

Putting tokens in void storage to change their value is an exploit and treated as such.

Not going out of your way to kill a rare 3 mountains over or leaving it for whenever I have flying is not.

[Tharkkun]

Please read what I wrote again and more carefully this time. I never said to skip world quests. World quests are a renewable daily resource for AP. Suramar story quests and treasures are one time only.

The Suramar quests also don't reward any gear that will be better than what you'll get from your heroics and mythics anyway. The only reason to do Suramar early is to gain access to the two mythic suramar dungeons, and they don't drop any higher ilevel gear than the rest of the regularly accessed dungeons.

It's not really up for discussion of opinion. It's fact that waiting to do Suramar quests until about 2 and half weeks in will net you a substantially larger amount of AP before raids open than had you done them as soon as you were able to, which will result in you being about 2-3 full artifact traits ahead of everyone else. (Which yes, is a huge deal. Especially for progression-minded raiders.)

- - - Updated - - -



Wrong. One time-only AP rewards (treasures and suramar quests), do in fact vanish after they are completed. And in the first three weeks of the expansion, a HUGE amount of your AP will come from Suramar quests alone.

Then doing things like storing up 25 dailies to turn on once the expansion releases would be the same exploit. But Blizzard doesn't break the exp gain from that. If someone wants to delay doing the most important zone for 3 weeks that's on them. Ion Hazzik just shut you down as well.

[Fallensaint]

Most of the big AP items from Suramar were changed to award between 500 and 1k base AP. While that's a decent amount, it's worth keeping in mind that the daily heroic dungeon reward is 400 base AP (not counting random drops in the dungeon itself), so in the long run the 'big' Suramar treasures are only worth a couple extra daily heroic dungeons. It doesn't seem worthwhile to delay Suramar progress just for that. Same goes for the class hall and endgame artifact quests.

AP from treasures is super weak even with the boost from AK. 10-20 AP just isn't a useful amount relative to the AP you need to progress, even when boosted by 24,000%. They may be somewhat useful if you've already done all available AP world quests and the daily heroic, but even a non-daily heroic gives 100 base AP.

[Archibalde]

Then doing things like storing up 25 dailies to turn on once the expansion releases would be the same exploit. But Blizzard doesn't break the exp gain from that. If someone wants to delay doing the most important zone for 3 weeks that's on them. Ion Hazzik just shut you down as well.

Is it the same? Storing dailies to turn in will make you reach max level a few hours earlier than most. They won't have any big advantage in terms of power, they just get to start dailies and such a bit earlier. Most players will catch up in a matter of hours, or at least in a day or two. Artifact traits can actually make a difference, though, and can take a significantly longer time to catch up even with Artifact Knowledge. You get more passive buffs to your spells.

Now, I'm personally not someone who cares if people choose to take advantage of that. It's their way of playing and that's fine. But let's not pretend it's even remotely close to being the same thing as storing a few quests to get an hour head start on reaching max level.

[Tharkkun]

Is it the same? Storing dailies to turn in will make you reach max level a few hours earlier than most. They won't have any big advantage in terms of power, they just get to start dailies and such a bit earlier. Most players will catch up in a matter of hours, or at least in a day or two. Artifact traits can actually make a difference, though, and can take a significantly longer time to catch up even with Artifact Knowledge. You get more passive buffs to your spells.

Now, I'm personally not someone who cares if people choose to take advantage of that. It's their way of playing and that's fine. But let's not pretend it's even remotely close to being the same thing as storing a few quests to get an hour head start on reaching max level.

Except Blizzard just clarified that it won't give you the advantage that the OP stated. It will save you at most a few hours of questing for AP, if that, but it will stunt your progression in other places which you need which will put you behind. So yes, they are basically the same.

[OrcsRLame]

*shrug*

Not an exploit anymore, but still potentially bad design if any of the quests can be finished by just turning them in, they're almost instant - nothing a heroic dungeon run can ever compete with.

Obviously delaying a whole connected questchain might be a bit pointless if the artifact power rewards are not too high but end of chain quests that give a high reward might well be worth keeping in your quest log till artifact power goes to 25.

That's bad science. You still have to count the time it takes to complete the previous quests in the chain and the quest objectives for that particular quest. Also, it's not worth it. It's like, not even close to being in the realm of worth it.

[Deleted]

Keeping the treasures (excluding suramar ones)is entirely useless :

Yes they scale buy they only have 5-50 AP range, that means at rank 25 they'll give around 1.2-12k AP each.

At that point one heroic dungeon is going to give you nearly 10 times more than one of those.

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TLDR don't bother too much with treasures, they are rather useless even early on.

[OrcsRLame]

Keeping the treasures (excluding suramar ones)is entirely useless :

Yes they scale buy they only have 5-50 AP range, that means at rank 25 they'll give around 1.2-12k AP each.

At that point one heroic dungeon is going to give you nearly 10 times more than one of those.

-

TLDR don't bother too much with treasures, they are rather useless even early on.

My rule of thumb is if I happen to be within 30 yards of one I'll pick it up. If it's close enough to judge it's close enough to loot!