No Man's Sky players thrust Sony's PS4 refund policy back into the spotlight

[Jtbrig7390]

It's not like the lies are the only issue. The game is flat out broken and many systems will insta crash the game if you try to warp to them. People have had to delete saves as they got stuck inside a planet with no way out- even killing them self just respawned them inside the planet.

Consoles never used to need a refund service like steam as buggy messes like this would never pass certification. Sony, MS and Nintendo all need to get back on the ball with that and stop allowing shoddy coded games to release on their systems- or otherwise provide a refund service as you're no longer guaranteeing the games work properly on your systems.

I rarely say this but I 100% agree with you. The age of being ok with broken buggy fucken games needs to end.

Not once was I hyped for NMS, I though it looked interesting and I liked the idea but it was whatever. What killed me was watching a streamer "Beat" it and all it does is reset you to the start with all your shit broken.

Nothing new at all just a good you crossed the finish line now go back and do it again. You get to keep all your shit even tho its broken and nothing is new.

That is NOT how you do NG+. If you do go that route make sure there is A LOT of side shit to do that someone may miss. Example Witcher 3 has NG+ everything gets harder and u can clear up story lines u missed or make different choices on.

[Turina]

It's the biggest launch of the year on Steam so far and it's the second biggest launch on PS4 since the console released.

I'm not sure that qualifies as a failure.

As far as I'm aware this is not an investment forum. Even if this were a business forum your assertion would still be misleading.

I'm not gonna say "wrong" because yeah, what is and what isn't a failure depends upon what you're basing it. As someone pointed out, a product can be a financial success and a failure among critics/players, which is pretty much what everyone here means.

If we can only talk about games' success in terms of how much short term money they made their company and not on whether they're good or bad then this shouldn't be a games forum. The game was a massive flop when it comes down to player reaction, and the launch was a major failure if you consider the backlash coming from the fanbase. Not to mention the massive bugs, crashes and performance issues which usually warrant people deeming a release a failure even if the game is both financially successful and actually good (which NMS is not, by popular opinion).

But even on the business aspect measuring a game's success by the amount of money it made based on the hype can be very naive. I don't get why so many people treat it like the end-all-be-all, even companies like Sega who had a lot of reserve money imploded on their hubris. Unless you're an entrepreneur doing hit-and-run companies, doing multiple start-ups to acquire short term money knowing fully well they will most likely go bankrupt in a year or two, your company's reputation will be heavily burdened by a game not being critically acclaimed. We don't even have to look very far, this site is called MMO champion. MMO history is filled with games that sold very well and went bankrupt a year later or free-to-play. Speaking of MMOs, Square-Enix's own president mentioned that they >had< to fix FFXIV or it would tarnish the franchise's name and make it less valuable in the long run, thus resulting in less profits for future games even if they're good. This is also why Blizzard worked hard on reworking Diablo 3 systems even though the game was financially successful. Whether it was the minority or majority of players who were disgruntled, Blizzard as a company knew better than to shrug it off. Diablo 3 sold well because people were enamored with Diablo 2, whether people enjoyed or not the game. People not being enamored with D3 meant that D4 would sell worse.

It's weird how something so important is glanced over, sometimes even by big companies. A lot of people in finances struggle with grasping this.

MMOs are a microcosm of what happen to companies in the long run. Instead of analyzing monthly subscriptions you take the first order derivative of sales and see how it goes. Sometimes you see the trends hidden in the second order, and so on. Sales also don't tell the whole story - taking Sega into account again, most vilified Sonic games in the past two decades resulted in a net profit for Sega even if the games sucked. That's because they were targeting young teenagers and new fans. However the lack of long-term appeal for young adults and older fans (based on the games... well, sucking) severely limit how far the franchise and the company could reach.

In other words, it's perfectly valid to say NMS was a failure in more than one ways, based on more factors than one. Short term financial gains? Sure, it did great. Everything else? A mix of not so much with remains to be seen.

[deviltoist]

As far as I'm aware this is not an investment forum. Even if this were a business forum your assertion would still be misleading.

I'm not gonna say "wrong" because yeah, what is and what isn't a failure depends upon what you're basing it. As someone pointed out, a product can be a financial success and a failure among critics/players, which is pretty much what everyone here means.

If we can only talk about games' success in terms of how much short term money they made their company and not on whether they're good or bad then this shouldn't be a games forum. The game was a massive flop when it comes down to player reaction, and the launch was a major failure if you consider the backlash coming from the fanbase. Not to mention the massive bugs, crashes and performance issues which usually warrant people deeming a release a failure even if the game is both financially successful and actually good (which NMS is not, by popular opinion).

But even on the business aspect measuring a game's success by the amount of money it made based on the hype can be very naive. I don't get why so many people treat it like the end-all-be-all, even companies like Sega who had a lot of reserve money imploded on their hubris. Unless you're an entrepreneur doing hit-and-run companies, doing multiple start-ups to acquire short term money knowing fully well they will most likely go bankrupt in a year or two, your company's reputation will be heavily burdened by a game not being critically acclaimed. We don't even have to look very far, this site is called MMO champion. MMO history is filled with games that sold very well and went bankrupt a year later or free-to-play. Speaking of MMOs, Square-Enix's own president mentioned that they >had< to fix FFXIV or it would tarnish the franchise's name and make it less valuable in the long run, thus resulting in less profits for future games even if they're good. This is also why Blizzard worked hard on reworking Diablo 3 systems even though the game was financially successful. Whether it was the minority or majority of players who were disgruntled, Blizzard as a company knew better than to shrug it off. Diablo 3 sold well because people were enamored with Diablo 2, whether people enjoyed or not the game. People not being enamored with D3 meant that D4 would sell worse.

It's weird how something so important is glanced over, sometimes even by big companies. A lot of people in finances struggle with grasping this.

MMOs are a microcosm of what happen to companies in the long run. Instead of analyzing monthly subscriptions you take the first order derivative of sales and see how it goes. Sometimes you see the trends hidden in the second order, and so on. Sales also don't tell the whole story - taking Sega into account again, most vilified Sonic games in the past two decades resulted in a net profit for Sega even if the games sucked. That's because they were targeting young teenagers and new fans. However the lack of long-term appeal for young adults and older fans (based on the games... well, sucking) severely limit how far the franchise and the company could reach.

In other words, it's perfectly valid to say NMS was a failure in more than one ways, based on more factors than one. Short term financial gains? Sure, it did great. Everything else? A mix of not so much with remains to be seen.

/endthread

[Tech614]

the second biggest launch on PS4 since the console released.

2nd biggest launch of a new ip that's a console exclusive.*

Which is an obscure as hell statement to make Sony's part and sounds like some MS PR.

Your comment is pretty disingenuous, Madden alone with only 1 week on the market will destroy it in sales for the month of august.

[Ravex]

Comments like yours is how people know they have won the argument and you have lost.

Thanks for playing.

Honest question, do people like you actually think about what you type when trying to sound superior to someone else on the internet? We are all pretty much monkeys throwing our shit at each other here. Your are just keeping your pinky extended while doing it.

OT: I've seen maybe 2 indie games that I've enjoyed, a great way for me to not give a game the time of day is to have Indie in it's tag. I played games in the 90s, not interested in playing that garbage in 2016.

[Deleted]

don't disagree with a moderator or you will be punished, be careful

Only money counts

Never hurt me....oh wait I think wow is rubbish now, but it makes loads of money....so it must be good making money does not make a game good...I think NMS will become good with future updates

[Deleted]

Never hurt me....oh wait I think wow is rubbish now, but it makes loads of money....so it must be good making money does not make a game good...I think NMS will become good with future updates

They need a lot to work on then.

If it ends up 20$ on steam sale and they managed to make the game good and include all the features they promised then I might buy it.
I have too many games to care about mediocre 60$ games.

[Patrick Star]

People are just unhappy with thier purchase so they are wining for a refund. You cant buy a game from a store and play it and then go back and make some BS reason up and get your money back so why should you be able to do it when you buy it digital. Next time maybe they want just jump into buying a game and wait for some professional reviews and user reviews. And nothing about this game will give you motion sickness thats some made up BS right there.

Um, yes you can. Australia has a 7 day return policies in every store to make sure if you're not happy with the game, you can get a new one or a full refund lol.

[Tech614]

Um, yes you can. Australia has a 7 day return policies in every store to make sure if you're not happy with the game, you can get a new one or a full refund lol.

At what store?

Checked out the EB Games policy in Austrailia and it certainly doesn't say you can return opened new games.

If you have simply changed your mind and you are able to provide a valid receipt, or you are a member of our loyalty program EB World, EB Games may offer you an exchange or refund provided that the merchandise:

is in saleable condition
is unworn or unused with all original packaging and content included
is not subject to the exclusions listed below

https://www.ebgames.com.au/terms So while it basically says you can return used games in 7 days as they can't prove you didn't use it you certainly aren't getting a full refund for a new game you opened and played.

[Azrile]

and THIS is why on games like this i hold off about a week or two

When a developer hides gameplay videos and does not allow the media to report until the day of the launch.... and when a developer promises a day 1 patch that fixes everything... yeah, stay away.

But that is the problem with this refund policy. Nobody should need a refund policy because people should not be stupid enough to buy a game that has developers hiding so much. When a developer tells you that you can´t see gameplay videos because they don´t want to ´ruin the surprise´.. that is your own fault for buying the game.

The problem is not Sony´s refund policy, the problem is stupid players once again falling for a snake oil salesman even though the writing was on the wall over a year ago. Some of the stuff they were talking about was obvious BS. What developer is going to add multiplayer PVP with full loot( something they announced) and then turn around and say players will probably never bump into each other...

[Deleted]

so, the first guy, he wants a refund but... he also wants to play the game again? that's how I understand it... you can't have both.

[Azrile]

When a developer hides gameplay videos and does not allow the media to report until the day of the launch.... and when a developer promises a day 1 patch that fixes everything... yeah, stay away.

But that is the problem with this refund policy. Nobody should need a refund policy because people should not be stupid enough to buy a game that has developers hiding so much. When a developer tells you that you can´t see gameplay videos because they don´t want to ´ruin the surprise´.. that is your own fault for buying the game.

The problem is not Sony´s refund policy, the problem is stupid players once again falling for a snake oil salesman even though the writing was on the wall over a year ago. Some of the stuff they were talking about was obvious BS. What developer is going to add multiplayer PVP with full loot( something they announced) and then turn around and say players will probably never bump into each other...

I disagree with this statement.

Because I feel when a company outright lies to you (Hello Games) they should be forced to provide refunds. It wasn't as simple as misleading someone, they outright false advertised.

A fool and their money are soon parted. At some point you have to take responsibility for believing stuff that was obviously a lie. So much about this game just didn´t make sense, and the way they evaded and then hid gameplay information should have sent off alarms for any reasonable person. There is very little that can be spoiled by waiting a week to buy a game... you don´t even have to watch real gameplay videos, just wait until people you respect simply say if the game is good or not.

This game will be a $5 bargain bin game within a few months.

- - - Updated - - -

When a developer hides gameplay videos and does not allow the media to report until the day of the launch.... and when a developer promises a day 1 patch that fixes everything... yeah, stay away.

But that is the problem with this refund policy. Nobody should need a refund policy because people should not be stupid enough to buy a game that has developers hiding so much. When a developer tells you that you can´t see gameplay videos because they don´t want to ´ruin the surprise´.. that is your own fault for buying the game.

The problem is not Sony´s refund policy, the problem is stupid players once again falling for a snake oil salesman even though the writing was on the wall over a year ago. Some of the stuff they were talking about was obvious BS. What developer is going to add multiplayer PVP with full loot( something they announced) and then turn around and say players will probably never bump into each other...

My thoughts are stop buying western games. Especially western indie games. There, you won't need to refund garbage anymore.

Stop pre-ordering indie games with huge promises and no gameplay reviews. If nobody you respect has played the game and the dev team has no record of producing games, just skip the pre-order.

[aevitas]

Yep its been a thing since the ps3 got its digital store.

The Refund policy on all 3 consoles is non-existent.

I've had a refund for Fallout 4 on the Xbox One due to framerate and saving issues.

MS actually refunds if the game has clear issues..

[Faroth]

They need a lot to work on then.

If it ends up 20$ on steam sale and they managed to make the game good and include all the features they promised then I might buy it.
I have too many games to care about mediocre 60$ games.

What features did they promise that aren't included? I was interested in it as a concept, did a focus group for marketing research for it about a year ago, but I didn't follow it. I've been pretty busy lately, but I enjoyed what I had played so far (probably because of my lack of any preconceived hype due to not following anything).

Wondering what's missing that was promised (I hate seeing that word thrown around, but still) since every time I've asked so far, I never hear back.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I bought NMS the day before release on the PSN.

It hard crashed and froze my PS4 multiple, multiple times. When I reached out to Sony via chat and they offered me store credit with zero hassle. I'm pretty sure they were able to pull up all my bug reports and hard crash info as soon as they confirmed my account.

[JamesGoblin]

What features did they promise that aren't included? I was interested in it as a concept, did a focus group for marketing research for it about a year ago, but I didn't follow it. I've been pretty busy lately, but I enjoyed what I had played so far (probably because of my lack of any preconceived hype due to not following anything).

Wondering what's missing that was promised (I hate seeing that word thrown around, but still) since every time I've asked so far, I never hear back.

Speaking of promises and misguiding, NMS reddit has some quite long lists. There is a couple (heh, much more in fact) in Angry Joe's review and so on.

[Flaks]

Speaking of promises and misguiding, NMS reddit has some quite long lists. There is a couple (heh, much more in fact) in Angry Joe's review and so on.

I don't know if that is the major failing I'd the game since Destiny has the same issues but is flourishing 2 years later. Maybe that has more to do with bungies massive advertising department.

[JamesGoblin]

I don't know if that is the major failing I'd the game since Destiny has the same issues but is flourishing 2 years later. Maybe that has more to do with bungies massive advertising department.

I am neither playing nor following Destiny, but I doubt NMS can compete, be it budget or ads department. And it seems that NMS "free ads" aka !HYPE! time is over.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Another reason PC is master race. Steam has a pretty good return policy.

[Spiral Mage]

I am glad this game is a failure.

Now I can laugh at all those guys who told me that 60$ for an indie game is fine lol.

It absolutely would have been had the game been what they claimed it was going to be but instead, it was the typical over-hype and lie about it, making promises of the sun, the moon and the stars, when in reality, you wouldn't be able to reach any of those things.

NMS is false advertising, it in no way implies that another company later may not produce a game that is indeed worth $60. Indie companies do far more original and enjoyable games than the carbon copies of bad games that "Triple A" companies puke up. I'm not even sure why we call them Triple A, more like Triple-Crap, since that's all they do most of the time, but they don't stop after three versions of the game, they keep going and going with it.