Thread: About Illidan

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  1. #61
    I think it's funny the people whining about the new Illidan being a retcon had nothing to fucking say about the War of the Ancient Trilogy or the entire TBC expansion Lore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Same with selling his people's plan to Azshara just because he would rather watch the world burn rather than let his brother had the girl right? Oh wait.
    Try again.

  2. #62
    I think it's funny the people whining about the new Illidan being a retcon had nothing to fucking say about the War of the Ancient Trilogy or the entire TBC expansion Lore
    Because people have said a lot of already about it.

  3. #63
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    They are making him the savior and retconning shits. Don't need to look anywhere but the new flashback quest in Blackrook Hold. It's the retconned version of WotA's trilogy event. Now Ravencrest was the one who looked stupid because Blizzard changed the event. lul.
    You have a visible unending cycle of hatred for Illidan ...so edgy

  4. #64
    Try again.
    Can't accept the fact? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diannak View Post
    You have a visible unending cycle of hatred for Illidan ...so edgy
    I actually liked Illidan but not where his character is going. and your avartar is too edgy even for me.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by GameGod888 View Post
    Care to explain everything here?
    I don't have the book quite at hand you see - Oh and I only read what's necessary.
    I don't care for all the filler stuff in books. I want facts which I can research :P
    Illidan created the second well because he knew the Legion would return. Without the power of the arcane, the Night Elves, and the rest of Azeroth would eventually fall to the demons, so Illidan created the second well.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Can't accept the fact? lol

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    I actually liked Illidan but not where his character is going. and your avartar is too edgy even for me.
    It's not a fact. He was resentful towards Malfurion/Tyrande but that is not why he warned Azshara.

    WC3 manual states he warned Azshara because he could not bear the idea of the Well of Eternity being destroyed.

    He was overcome with his addiction to magic at this time. It's something he's struggled with his entire life, even more-so once he adopted his demonic form in Felwood because now he has to struggle with both the regular magic addiction of the arcane in addition to the demonic fel.

    He's a very human character who isn't good or evil. He does try to do good but he did a lot of growing as a character from the time of WOTA to the present day.

    The Illidan novel was fantastic. The constant struggle against the addiction to magic/fel makes it a double-edged sword. Power, but at a cost.

    Cliche as hell, but with great power comes great responsibility.

    His iconic weapons are even noted metaphorically in the novel as 'double-edged', much like his character.

    WC3 did a fantastic job of portraying him as a double-edged sword.

    Illidan novel does a fantastic job of portraying him as a double-edged sword.

    TBC portrayed him as a one-dimensional villain with designated insanity, a single-edged sword.

    The complaints about the 'Illidan novel' whitewashing his character are like someone complaining about how applying disinfectant to a wound makes it sting.

    It's not perfect but it's far better than letting the wound rot and fester.
    Last edited by Strategos; 2016-08-24 at 08:11 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    It's not a fact. He was resentful towards Malfurion/Tyrande but that is not why he warned Azshara.

    WC3 manual states he warned Azshara because he could not bear the idea of the Well of Eternity being destroyed.

    He was overcome with his addiction to magic at this time. It's something he's struggled with his entire life, even more-so once he adopted his demonic form in Felwood because now he has to struggle with both the regular magic addiction of the arcane in addition to the demonic fel.

    He's a very human character who isn't good or evil. He does try to do good but he did a lot of growing as a character from the time of WOTA to the present day.

    The Illidan novel was fantastic
    Being jealous was one of the reason he felt no remorse to betray his people. And betraying your people and potentially risking the world being destroyed by the legion was downright evil. He was even sure that the demon would crush the night elves. He simply did not give a fuck.

    Illidan in WC3's WotA was far more evil than the one in the novels version.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2016-08-24 at 08:13 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Being jealous was one of the reason he felt no remorse to betray his people. And betraying your people and potentially risking the world being destroyed by the legion was downright evil.
    Nowhere in the novel or in legion so far does it say Illidan is an innocent character. In fact it portrays him doing terrible, one might even say evil things. One example is the destruction of hundreds of Draenei's souls in Akama's broken army that was sent to assist Maeiv.

    He doesn't do it because he's evil and enjoys causing evil (maybe debatable. The inner demon side of him actually might - but this he keeps in check in a constant struggle), but because it was necessary to fuel the portal to the Dreadlord homeworld.

    A lesser evil is sometimes necessary for a greater good. That's literally the story of his character.

    Yes he was pissed off at Malfurion/Tyrande but he believed he needed the magic from the well of eternity and preserving it was a greater good.

    Warning Azshara so it could be saved was a lesser evil to preserve the greater good of the immortality of his people, their connection to magic, and the well of eternity. You're presuming his intentions in warning Azshara were motivated by his will to see the world destroyed, which I don't think is a reasonable assumption to make.

    They were entirely motivated by his will to see the well of eternity preserved and not destroyed - There must be another way to stop the Legion.

  9. #69
    Illidans main character is someone who has noble intentions but goes through it in wastefully bad means, while having underlying motivations to grow his own power and feed his addiction to magic. The latter constantly sabotages the former and taints his achievements. Every success is followed with negative consequences or lead to unfortunate circumstances.

    Thing is, he's been alone in his efforts. With allies, his...more negative personality traits could be tempered and he can be focused on the proper path to defeat the legion without being distracted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bathory View Post
    Illidan created the second well because he knew the Legion would return. Without the power of the arcane, the Night Elves, and the rest of Azeroth would eventually fall to the demons, so Illidan created the second well.
    You're going to need to cite that. From what we know, Illidan did it purely because he couldn't bear to go without magic, regretted the loss of the well and plastered it ontop with "whats best for the night elves".

    Unless theres something in wota i missed or that has been retconned way after, i didnt see anything about him having that level of foresight.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post

    You're going to need to cite that. From what we know, Illidan did it purely because he couldn't bear to go without magic, regretted the loss of the well and plastered it ontop with "whats best for the night elves".

    Unless theres something in wota i missed or that has been retconned way after, i didnt see anything about him having that level of foresight.
    I believe it's in the 3rd WotA book, I'll try to find mine
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  11. #71
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    Nowhere in the novel or in legion so far does it say Illidan is an innocent character. In fact it portrays him doing terrible, one might even say evil things. One example is the destruction of hundreds of Draenei's souls in Akama's broken army that was sent to assist Maeiv.

    He doesn't do it because he's evil and enjoys causing evil (maybe debatable. The inner demon side of him actually might - but this he keeps in check in a constant struggle), but because it was necessary to fuel the portal to the Dreadlord homeworld.

    A lesser evil is sometimes necessary for a greater good. That's literally the story of his character.

    Yes he was pissed off at Malfurion/Tyrande but he believed he needed the magic from the well of eternity and preserving it was a greater good.

    Warning Azshara so it could be saved was a lesser evil to preserve the greater good of the immortality of his people, their connection to magic, and the well of eternity. You're presuming his intentions in warning Azshara were motivated by his will to see the world destroyed, which I don't think is a reasonable assumption to make.
    you are going in circles with him, he will never stop complaining about Illy willy

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    Illidans main character is someone who has noble intentions but goes through it in wastefully bad means, while having underlying motivations to grow his own power and feed his addiction to magic. The latter constantly sabotages the former and taints his achievements. Every success is followed with negative consequences or lead to unfortunate circumstances.

    Thing is, he's been alone in his efforts. With allies, his...more negative personality traits could be tempered and he can be focused on the proper path to defeat the legion without being distracted.



    You're going to need to cite that. From what we know, Illidan did it purely because he couldn't bear to go without magic, regretted the loss of the well and plastered it ontop with "whats best for the night elves".

    Unless theres something in wota i missed or that has been retconned way after, i didnt see anything about him having that level of foresight.
    The underlined is what is canon from the original WC3 manual.

    I'm very much okay with it. I think he's grown as a character and has more self-control over his magical addiction than he used to.

    We obviously know he made the right decision to preserve it though. For all we know, the world would have ended with Archimonde conquering Azeroth had the Night Elves not the magical power of the World Tree to destroy him. Imagine a world where the well of eternity was never recreated after the original War of the Ancients..

    Sargeras already knows how to find Azeroth anyways. Malfurion and the leftover establishment that siezed power in the aftermath were just to bigoted against the arcane arts, granted they aren't as bad about it as Maeiv is.

    Let's not forget in the WC3 manual Malfurion is pretty much portrayed as a dogmatic religious zealot against the heresy of Arcane energies which would lead to the destruction of Azeroth. Ask any mage/warlock how they feel about that, I'll be waiting.
    Last edited by Strategos; 2016-08-24 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    Nowhere in the novel or in legion so far does it say Illidan is an innocent character. In fact it portrays him doing terrible, one might even say evil things. One example is the destruction of hundreds of Draenei's souls in Akama's broken army that was sent to assist Maeiv.

    He doesn't do it because he's evil and enjoys causing evil (maybe debatable. The inner demon side of him actually might - but this he keeps in check in a constant struggle), but because it was necessary to fuel the portal to the Dreadlord homeworld.

    A lesser evil is sometimes necessary for a greater good. That's literally the story of his character.

    Yes he was pissed off at Malfurion/Tyrande but he believed he needed the magic from the well of eternity and preserving it was a greater good.

    Warning Azshara so it could be saved was a lesser evil to preserve the greater good of the immortality of his people, their connection to magic, and the well of eternity. You're presuming his intentions in warning Azshara were motivated by his will to see the world destroyed, which I don't think is a reasonable assumption to make.

    They were entirely motivated by his will to see the well of eternity preserved and not destroyed - There must be another way to stop the Legion.
    He didn't try to preserve the well for his people. He tried to preserve it because of his addiction. The manual plainly states that Illidan was convinced that the night elf was done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    The underlined is what is canon from the original WC3 manual.

    I'm very much okay with it. I think he's grown as a character and has more self-control over his magical addiction than he used to.

    We obviously know he made the right decision to preserve it though. For all we know, the world would have ended with Archimonde conquering Azeroth had the Night Elves not the magical power of the World Tree to destroy him
    Sargeras would have entered if the well was not destroyed in the first place.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    He didn't try to preserve the well for his people. He tried to preserve it because of his addiction. The manual plainly states that Illidan was convinced that the night elf was done.

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    Sargeras would have entered if the well was not destroyed in the first place.
    In his addicted state, he had to believe that it was not just in his interest to preserve the magical energies of the well, but of anyone who relied upon them, including his Highborne brothers and sisters. You're right he probably wasn't as concerned with their addiction problems though, an addict usually isn't worried about how bad other addicts have it when they themselves are in the process of suffering from withdrawal.

    You can fault him for being wrong and making a mistake here, but you can't fault him for having malicious intentions.

    The same people who willingly admit 'oh he does good things but they're never for benevolent reasons' ironically refuse to admit 'oh he does bad things sometimes too, but they're never for malicious reasons'

    It's actually humorously ironic -

    He was wrong to try to stop the Well of Eternity from being destroyed, but his intentions were not evil

    He was right to recreate another Well of Eternity, but his intentions were not benevolent (unless you take the WOTA canon, which I consider to be a mess)
    Last edited by Strategos; 2016-08-24 at 08:33 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    In his addicted state, he had to believe that it was not just in his interest to preserve the magical energies of the well, but of anyone who relied upon them, including his Highborne brothers and sisters.

    You can fault him for being wrong and making a mistake here, but you can't fault him for having malicious intentions.

    The same people who willingly admit 'oh he does good things but they're never for benevolent reasons' ironically refuse to admit 'oh he does bad things sometimes too, but they're never for malicious reasons'

    It's actually humorously ironic -

    He was wrong to try to stop the Well of Eternity, but his intentions were not

    He was not wrong to recreate another Well of Eternity, even if his intentions were
    The intention to not willing to fight for your people and jump the ship was obviously not good. He even gave the enemies an easy time crushing his people.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    The intention to not willing to fight for your people and jump the ship was obviously not good. He even gave the enemies an easy time crushing his people.
    Once again, I don't think he did this because he hated them, but out of self-interest.

    He was grappling with addiction and wanted to preserve the well of eternity first-and-foremost.

    Obviously not heroic, but I don't consider him to be evil for it. Just something struggling

    The things he has done since then, including the very first thing he did (the recreation of the well - which ironically is what landed him imprisoned) have more than made up for it.

    He's trying to do good by the world. He's trying to stop the greatest evil in the universe. He struggling along the way, has failed countless times, and his methods are not without fault, but he keeps going and keeps fighting for a noble cause - the defeat of the Burning Legion.

    Why does he fight? That's more complicated. But the cause he fights for is good.
    Last edited by Strategos; 2016-08-24 at 08:40 PM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by GameGod888 View Post
    And why did Illidan create the second Well of Eternity?
    And adding up to this - why didn't he inform his night elf allies that he never served and never will serve the Legion and all of this just was a ruse?

    I felt Illidan could have saved many lives if he just communicated his plans better - an example is the Eye of Sargeras scenario, or even while residing in Outland - he could have told the whole of Azeroth of his plans to infiltrate the Legion and destroy it from within as an inside man.

    Why didn't he communicate better?
    Because at that point in time, Blizzard has not made up the redemption part of the story yet. They planned to kill him off. What you are seeing are recon of Illidan's story.

  18. #78
    Told his whole life he is destined for great things. Fails at being druid, brother is doing amazing and gets the girl he likes. Goes to do magic stuff, hey Rhonin is time travelling and fucking him up with piss poor teaching! Sees the Legion is fucking things up, we must do the thing. No don't we are doing this other thing. No gotta do it this way you are losing, noooo we are awesome you suck Illidan. Fuck you guys going to get power, betray the legion stop the queen. Yeah did the thing, need a new well though our people need it get some well water. Start a new well, Illidan nooooo we are going to be nature people I Malfurion have decided for our entire race what we are going to do. I did the thing, nooooo Illidan why stop him with violence. Fuck dat magic pew pew! Noooooo Illidan now we gotta lock you up forever.

    Fast forward to Tyrande breaking into prison, killing the guards. Malfurion said not to do the thing but I did the thing we need you Illidan. Bitch you are going to blame this on me aren't you? Maybe. Fine I'll help, oh shit lots of demons need help oooh a skull named Gul'dan. Om nom nom power boost into demon mode! Fuck yeah stopping the Legion, awesome! Noooooo Illidan why did you do the thing and kill all those guards I have no brother. Tyrande you whore. Fine fuck y'all I'm going to go hang out with the naga and holy fuck zombies all over the place. Time to stop the Lich King with super spell! Illidan noooooo gotta do it my way you are too dangerous! Son of a bitch you broke my spell now I gotta 1v1 this Arthas punk! Ow... screw this world I'm going to Outland to get my revenge on the Legion. You guys work with me now we are going to beat the Legion by any means neccessary. But I can't tell you guys what the plan is because if I do the Legion will mind rape you and learn my plan so trust me. Akama is with you man, I'm totally not with him I just want my crib back. And then shit goes horribly wrong and fuck it is Maeve. BITCH YOU KILLED MY LESBIAN LOVER I'LL FUCKING TRAP YOU IN CRYSTAL FOREVER! And now I'm in a crystal... and why is she grinding on my prison?! Who the fuck is this orc and what is he doing with my body?! SON OF A BITCH!

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by NotFunny008 View Post
    Because at that point in time, Blizzard has not made up the redemption part of the story yet. They planned to kill him off. What you are seeing are recon of Illidan's story.
    A retcon of a retcon of Illidan's original WC3 story.

    It's debatable they planned to kill him off. Obviously the details of the retcon were not in place yet, but I have a hunch that they always knew they weren't quite finished with him yet and wanted to redeem him.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Strategos View Post
    Once again, I don't think he did this because he hated them, but out of self-interest.

    He was grappling with addiction and wanted to preserve the well of eternity first-and-foremost.

    Obviously not heroic, but I don't consider him to be evil for it. Just something struggling

    The things he has done since then, including the very first thing he did (the recreation of the well - which ironically is what landed him imprisoned) have more than made up for it.

    He's trying to do good by the world. He's trying to stop the greatest evil in the universe. He struggling along the way, has failed countless times, and his methods are not without fault, but he keeps going and keeps fighting for a noble cause - the defeat of the Burning Legion.

    Why does he fight? That's more complicated. But the cause he fights for is good.
    I very much consider betraying your people because of your self-interest evil. Retconning things to justify Illidan's many actions is ruining his character. Illidan as a character was defined by his selfish desires but he happened to have the same ultimate goal as the denizens of Azeorth which was to defeat the legion. That was why people could work with him.

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