No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

Mythic dungeons are not overly difficult. What's the fuss? ( maybe if you play solely to gather at max level?)

They're most likely equal to Cata's release dungeon difficulty. Typical LFR folk/non-raiders/PvPers will not complete them anytime soon, if at all.

[MasterHamster]

They're most likely equal to Cata's release dungeon difficulty. Typical LFR folk/non-raiders/PvPers will not complete them anytime soon, if at all.

I think it's worthy to note that base Mythic in Legion is comparable to some of the older Heroic dungeons many are used to in terms of difficulty. These dungeons become harder as Keystones are used to scale them and increase their challenges, but this is not a system you need to participate in if you don't want to.

No, they're not Cata release dungeons nor were those impossible by any stretch, most of the issues was because healers got absolutely gutted in 4.0

[Connll]

They're most likely equal to Cata's release dungeon difficulty. Typical LFR folk/non-raiders/PvPers will not complete them anytime soon, if at all.

IMHO BC Heroics were the hardest (pull agro and be killed in 1 hit)

Cata Heroics were hard, but not if you knew what you were doing.

[Deleted]

I think it's worthy to note that base Mythic in Legion is comparable to some of the older Heroic dungeons many are used to in terms of difficulty. These dungeons become harder as Keystones are used to scale them and increase their challenges, but this is not a system you need to participate in if you don't want to.

No, they're not Cata release dungeons nor were those impossible by any stretch, most of the issues was because healers got absolutely gutted in 4.0

Didn't say they were impossible. But LFR players and PvPers would struggle with them, I wish the Mythics were that sort of difficulty.

[Hexxidecimal]

Mythic requirements for two of the dungeons for completion of patchfinder is alone going to cause an uproar on the official forums. But most are distracted by shines at the moment.

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A lot of people say that but don't realize the gravity of the situation. Book mark this point in the thread and I will see you all in a week!

Rather some people lend far more "gravity" to the situation is necessary and rely on over zealous doom saying because their actual point is simply not as important as they would like to believe.

Mythics aren't much harder the TBC Heroics. A bit of team work and it'll be easy peasy. How much beta have you actually played? How much of the achievement have you actually measured? The order hall is gated, sure but it's guaranteed unlike the missives were at first. By the time they ACTUALLY enable the completion of the achievement there will only be a short few steps left to complete, like the mythic dungeons which aren't that hard. You are blowing it waaaaay out of proportion. But you seem to operate off of hyperbole so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Now if you want to argue that having to go through these steps at all is silly I'll listen. If you want to talk about how this obfuscation one when flying will be enabled is frustrating lets have a talk. If you want to lace any of that with the silly idea of player mobs with virtual pitchforks rising in protest and chaos in our virtual streets then there isn't much to discuss. But for sake of your position I have bookmarked this page. I'll come back and check in a bit. But just so you know if it ends up like this page, the same 5-10 people being suuuuper vocal doesn't equal any sort of uprising in my books.

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They're most likely equal to Cata's release dungeon difficulty. Typical LFR folk/non-raiders/PvPers will not complete them anytime soon, if at all.

PvPers won't need to anyway. They just queue from where they are standing. I am a non raider and only raid LFR when I need too (the legendary ring for example). I really don't know what makes you think that people who LFR or are non-raiders can't do a mythic. They aren't that difficult. Now if it was high level mythic + I would understand the complaint.

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Didn't say they were impossible. But LFR players and PvPers would struggle with them, I wish the Mythics were that sort of difficulty.

Broad strokes, incorrect ones at that. You assume a lot about a lot of players.

[Mafic]

They're most likely equal to Cata's release dungeon difficulty. Typical LFR folk/non-raiders/PvPers will not complete them anytime soon, if at all.

Yup and it is going to be a massive tsunami of QQ when players learn about this. Sorry, but Blizzard is being straight up dumb about this.

Legion patchfinder and everything about it is pure cancer.

The best part of all of this? You have to wait for the two mythic dungeons to be unlocked. More unneeded gating for what?

[Hexxidecimal]

Yup and it is going to be a massive tsunami of QQ when players learn about this. Sorry, but Blizzard is being straight up dumb about this.

Legion patchfinder and everything about it is pure cancer.

The best part of all of this? You have to wait for the two mythic dungeons to be unlocked. More unneeded gating for what?

No it won't.

[Mafic]

I have exactly the same opinion as you. I don't mind unlocking flight in a reasonable manner, but I find the way they are handling pathfinder totally disgusting. This is not the way in which you handle such a big achievement, and a reward which is highly valued by at least some part of your playerbase, and surely seen as a positive thing by a larger part. I don't buy into claims that the majority of WoW players views flight as a negative. I think, that the majority is on the positive/neutral position.

The problem is much deeper.

Unless they changed it recently this is what we know from a few months ago:

Court of Star and Arcway are only unlocked if you are halfway done with the Suramar quest line. And they must be completed in mythic difficulty because that is the only way to access them.

So those that are saying they are okay with Legion patchfinder and intend to sub for one month in Legion and call it quits? Good luck because you are being gated from being allowed to do that.

It gets better because you need a crap ton of Ancient mana to turn in and be halfway done rep wise with the Nightfallen.

[Maneo]

Its just for the money. You need more time to do things so have to buy more sub and keep playing longer before u get bored.

If it was about the money you would think Blizzard would say " Flight in Legion purchasable at the cash shop for 24.99". God knows I would pay it in a New York minute.

Personally what I think it is, is this. Blizzard fully intended for WoD to be the first expac w/out flight. They strung us along till 6.2 before they were finally honest with us. They were betting that by that point the remaining player base had become apathetic in regards to flight. So they finally announce "no flight in WoD or any future content". Took em what 2 weeks to change course? They gambled and they lost.

Now here is the problem though. Legion was well under development when No Flight was the design choice for all future content. They still have a release schedule to meet, so the game is going to be released w/out flight. Flight is going to have to be enabled on the back end through patches. That is probably also why they won't give a patch as to when it will be available cause they really have no idea how long it will take.

If the expac following Legion has flight available at launch in some manner this will prove me correct. However going to have to wait at least two years before I will be validated.

[Mafic]

If it was about the money you would think Blizzard would say " Flight in Legion purchasable at the cash shop for 24.99". God knows I would pay it in a New York minute.

Personally what I think it is, is this. Blizzard fully intended for WoD to be the first expac w/out flight. They strung us along till 6.2 before they were finally honest with us. They were betting that by that point the remaining player base had become apathetic in regards to flight. So they finally announce "no flight in WoD or any future content". Took em what 2 weeks to change course? They gambled and they lost.

Now here is the problem though. Legion was well under development when No Flight was the design choice for all future content. They still have a release schedule to meet, so the game is going to be released w/out flight. Flight is going to have to be enabled on the back end through patches. That is probably also why they won't give a patch as to when it will be available cause they really have no idea how long it will take.

If the expac following Legion has flight available at launch in some manner this will prove me correct. However going to have to wait at least two years before I will be validated.

It is going to take another backlash for Blizzard to move faster than their current glacial pacing. To me it is clear at this point they are hoping this will blow over again, but the way they have chopped up patchfinder indicates to me they are going to string players along once more.

And those players have every right to feel betrayed and abused by Blizzard. Personally, I do not see the value of supporting them till they decide to put flying in the game.

[SirCowdog]

Mythic dungeons are not overly difficult. What's the fuss? ( maybe if you play solely to gather at max level?)

There's a pretty good discussion in the other thread specifically about what the effects of locking content behind Mythic only dungeons which aren't in the matchmaking tool. Personally, I'm of the opinion that there's a certain amount of the playerbase that simply will not engage with Mythic-only content, and will be irritated and angry at feeling like they're being forced into pre-made groups, or feel like they're being denied access. I don't know if that's actually true, but knowing gamers, I think their perception is going to have more of an effect on their reaction.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Mythic only content. I just don't see the point. There's no reason to not have lower difficulties, or to have them accessible through the matchmaking tool. Mythic doesn't stop being mythic because there's other difficulties available. The rewards are higher, but so are the coordination and skill required to complete them. I'm just not really sure what Blizzard is trying to accomplish here, other than to get some players to just skip it entirely and stick with LFG/LFR, or just suck it up and do it once, then never return.


[QUOTE=MasterHamster;42032119]

I think it's worthy to note that base Mythic in Legion is comparable to some of the older Heroic dungeons many are used to in terms of difficulty. These dungeons become harder as Keystones are used to scale them and increase their challenges, but this is not a system you need to participate in if you don't want to.

I don't think this is about difficulty, but instead about accessibility. I was under the impression that the entire point of not having Mythic difficulty in the matchmaking system was because the challenge wasn't something that a random group of people could accomplish very well. But if the blue post is accurate, that's no longer true, since people complete heroic difficulty all the time with LFD.

So why require people to travel to the entrance with a pre-made group as the only option to complete this content? How is the game improved by this?

Didn't say they were impossible. But LFR players and PvPers would struggle with them, I wish the Mythics were that sort of difficulty.

Again, I don't believe this is about difficulty. Just because someone uses LFR does not automatically make them a less skilled player. And for the people who DO want a more organized challenge with higher difficulty, as the blue post said, that's what Mythic+ is for.

No it won't.

I don't know that there will be a massive backlash, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a lot of negative feedback about this decision once players start reaching the Suramar/Mythic stage of the unlock. As I've stated, there doesn't seem to be any concrete benefit to putting so many limitations and requirements on either flying or the content required to unlock it. With LFR/LFD a player can just suck it up and get it done with randoms after a few tries. But with Mythic they're going to be faced with all the rampant elitism and wild requirements that the playerbase creates(or pay for a carry, which is even worse than LFR/LFD in a LOT of ways).


Even if these requirements aren't unobtainable, I do really wonder if the amount of effort and irritation surrounding them is worth the reward. When you get down to it, there's a LOT of work involved here, only to sit around and not have flying. And even when you finally complete and unlock flight in a later patch, you'll probably only get it's primary use on alts unless Blizzard doesn't something REALLY out of character with it in 7.1 or later.

[Hexxidecimal]

I don't know that there will be a massive backlash, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a lot of negative feedback about this decision once players start reaching the Suramar/Mythic stage of the unlock. As I've stated, there doesn't seem to be any concrete benefit to putting so many limitations and requirements on either flying or the content required to unlock it. With LFR/LFD a player can just suck it up and get it done with randoms after a few tries. But with Mythic they're going to be faced with all the rampant elitism and wild requirements that the playerbase creates(or pay for a carry, which is even worse than LFR/LFD in a LOT of ways).


Even if these requirements aren't unobtainable, I do really wonder if the amount of effort and irritation surrounding them is worth the reward. When you get down to it, there's a LOT of work involved here, only to sit around and not have flying. And even when you finally complete and unlock flight in a later patch, you'll probably only get it's primary use on alts unless Blizzard doesn't something REALLY out of character with it in 7.1 or later.

There WILL be negative feed back no doubt. I don't think it's going to be an ocean of tear as Mafic would have everyone believe. I think there are legitimate reasons to complain about the mythic requirement however, if it comes to pass.

While I do think Mythics aren't that difficult I do know a few players who never step foot in instanced content. They gather, quest, craft, pet battle, do archeology etc. They (being the people I actually know) thought the best thing to ever come to the game was MoP farming and cooking. And for them, it legitimately was. For these folks flying is something that would be extremely useful. So much so that they would still have use for flying after all the hoops they have to jump through. Adding instanced content to the requirements is, quite frankly, stupid. It's literally the antithesis of what their statement about pathfinder is all about. They took away flying for the express purpose that we need to experience the world content on the ground. So having us do a bunch of world content to get flying makes sense. But having us do instanced content, content we don't need flying to experience and more over can't even fly in anyway is just ridiculous.

So while even these less "intrepid" players don't do instances, I think even they can manage it. Mythic's will be easy enough by the time the release flying that these players can still get carried if need be. Granted, it may cost money. That sucks, but it's doable. Doable isn't the issue, it shouldn't need to be done at all with in the context of why they are with holding flying.

So just to note. I am honestly against the idea of mythic completion as part of this system. Not because it can't be done or because it's "hard" but because it makes no sense in the context of pathfinder itself. That being said, I still don't forsee a sea of tears and players banging down the virtual doors at blizzard (the forums) in great mass. I do see some very frustrated people, just those people won't be as many as Mafic believes.

There is no way it'll be available at 7.1. 7.2 is the earliest imo. Even that is dubious.

[Sockie]

Let's make sure to get a thread going that's like 20000 pages long to talk about it for several months.

I'm dead - this is great. Second post too.

[bufferunderrun]

Mythic dungeons are not overly difficult. What's the fuss? ( maybe if you play solely to gather at max level?)

mythic dungeon was saying to be optional not mandatory to unlock flying, i wonder if karazhan is mandatory for part 2; i invite all the guys here who want to fly to write on twitter and on us official forum about this.

[Hexxidecimal]

mythic dungeon was saying to be optional not mandatory to unlock flying, i wonder if karazhan is mandatory for part 2; i invite all the guys here who want to fly to write on twitter and on us official forum about this.

Optional? As in replacing another portion of the requirements? If it's optional Karazhan will need to be optional as Karazhan is mythic only.

[bufferunderrun]

Optional? As in replacing another portion of the requirements? If it's optional Karazhan will need to be optional as Karazhan is mythic only.

optional meaning you could skip them without losing anything beside the loot, now you had to do them at last 1 time to unlock flying.

[ejpaints]

I was on the pro-flight side during WoD bc Blizz just plain handled that poorly. For Legion I still acknowledge the pro-flight complaints, I'm just less concerned due to the flight master whistle basically handling my complaints about wasting my limited play time. BUT, Blizz can't really put the genie back on the bottle on flying so hopefully they figure that out soon bc this unnecessary controversy is self inflicted on their game.

[SirCowdog]

mythic dungeon was saying to be optional not mandatory to unlock flying, i wonder if karazhan is mandatory for part 2; i invite all the guys here who want to fly to write on twitter and on us official forum about this.

I tried giving feedback on the official forums before. I used calm, intelligent, well written posts like I tend to do here. You know what happened? Blizzard deleted them and gave me a 24 hour ban because my post criticizing their decision on flight "Was not in line with the positive environment we want to promote to our players". I was not the only one this happened to, either.

I have zero respect for the official forums or their moderators. These are also the same guys who gave me a separate 24 hour ban a few years back when I was still on a PVP server for real life threats of violence when I said "I kill any horde characters I see". /facepalm

I don't have a twitter account, but I would be interested to know if someone could make a post to find out of Blizz even reads these forums.

[bufferunderrun]

I tried giving feedback on the official forums before. I used calm, intelligent, well written posts like I tend to do here. You know what happened? Blizzard deleted them and gave me a 24 hour ban because my post criticizing their decision on flight "Was not in line with the positive environment we want to promote to our players".

I have zero respect for the official forums or their moderators. These are also the same guys who gave me a separate 24 hour ban a few years back when I was still on a PVP server for real life threats of violence when I said "I kill any horde characters I see". /facepalm

I don't have a twitter account, but I would be interested to know if someone could make a post to find out of Blizz even reads these forums.

unfortunately i'm from eu and any topic is automatically ignored by the dev the only blue there are the moderators/pr; it's hilarious that just few day back a blue answer on the forum telling that mythic dungeon are just optional.

[SirCowdog]

unfortunately i'm from eu and any topic is automatically ignored by the dev the only blue there are the moderators/pr; it's hilarious that just few day back a blue answer on the forum telling that mythic dungeon are just optional.

Was this a confirmation that Mythic wasn't actually part of the Pathfinder requirement, or just a Community Manager that's out of touch?