Germany: Mayor fires refugee project intern for wearing headscarf

[Daymanmb]

Daneman!
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religious expression has nothing to do at the workplace.

Since when do rights not apply at work?

[ranzino]

Did they stop people from wearing crosses on necklesses? Thats a more apt comparison.

if the mayor was sincere: nobody wears anything religious related in town hall.

Since when do rights not apply at work?

rule of the place, which is a governmental body. government cannot display religion to its customers because neutral stance.

[Daymanmb]

if the mayor was sincere: nobody wears anything religious related in town hall.

So in the interest of neutrality, she violates religious freedoms and you people are fist pumping like this is a victory of some sort...

"Freedom of religion in Germany is guaranteed by article 4 of the Basic Law (constitution). This states that "the freedom of religion, conscience and the freedom of confessing one's religious or philosophical beliefs are inviolable. Uninfringed religious practice is guaranteed."

Lets look up words like inviolable and uninfringed, then lets have a discussion about whos rightfully in the wrong here. ( I dont mean you speciically, ranzino.)

[Deleted]

rightfully so.

[Themius]

nicely done.

religious expression has nothing to do at the workplace.

I am not wearing my spaghetti monster noodle strainer aswell.

But plenty of people indeed wear crosses... what about the jews who have shilocks?

[GodEmperor]

Seems fine to me. Should be the same all over EU

[Daymanmb]

rightfully so.

No, thats not rightful when it violates the countries religious freedoms. You dont even know what rightfully means lol.

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Seems fine to me. Should be the same all over EU

Except that it violates: Freedom of religion in Germany is guaranteed by article 4 of the Basic Law (constitution). This states that "the freedom of religion, conscience and the freedom of confessing one's religious or philosophical beliefs are inviolable. Uninfringed religious practice is guaranteed.

The fact that its fine to you is a testament to you as a person.

[ranzino]

So in the interest of neutrality, she violates religious freedoms and you people are fist pumping like this is a victory of some sort...

town hall clerk represents the state and the state itself is not affilated with any religion. You seem to forget governmental employees are not acting as private persons. btw. any business can wave your individual rights to some extent by regulating your clothing, it was not invented in Luckenwalde in august 2016.

[Ichifails]

So in the interest of neutrality, she violates religious freedoms and you people are fist pumping like this is a victory of some sort...

Besides collective, German law protects individual freedom of religion, which is to be distinguished into positive and negative freedom of religion. Negative freedom of religion covers the right not to confess your faith unless legally required (i. e. registration for church tax) and the right not to be exposed to religion while in a position of "subordination" where one is legally required to attend. Landmark decisions are the Crucifix Decision and the Headscarf Decision.

Crucifix Decision
In the Crucifix Decision the German Federal Constitution Court in 1995 decreed a law that insisted on the presence of religious symbols (crucifixes) in public institutions to be illegal, excluding in some Roman Catholic elementary schools. The court further demanded that the symbols must be removed if a parent does not agree with them. In 1973, a Jew complained successfully that his freedom of religion was violated by the obligation to speak in a German courtroom decorated by a cross.

Headscarf Decision
In 2004, the German Supreme court denied a Muslim teacher the right to wear a headscarf in class, on the basis that she had to represent neutrality. In this case, freedom of religion (of teachers) had to be brought into "balance" with the state's authority over schools (art. 7), the freedom not to be exposed to religion while in a state of subordination (art. 4), resp. the parents' rights to raise their children (art. 6), and the specific duties of teachers as state servants (art. 33). German courts rarely hold the freedom of religious and non-religious belief to be infringed, as freedom of religion is limited by the exertion of other basic rights (and duties) guaranteed by the Grundgesetz. Already in the late 1970s, a teacher had also been denied the right to wear the distinct clothing of his religion at the workplace.[citation needed]

In Germany, high school students are not excused from classes on sexual education and evolution theory on the basis of religion, as it collides with the state's authority over schools (art. 7) and the legal duty to attend schools. Homeschooling for religious reasons is illegal.

I have the freedom to not be exposed to your backwards views of the world.

[Kuntantee]

According to Mayor, it seems like all sorts of religious elements, not just Islamic ones are banned. If this is on her power, I call it a fair game. Tho, banning religious symbols never works well. See Turkey's ban on headscarf and how it was used as a political argument and where the summation of oppression over religion brought Turkey to.

[Ichifails]

According to Mayor, it seems like all sorts of religious elements, not just Islamic ones are banned. If this is on her power, I call it a fair game.

It's illegal in Germany for public institutions to display religious symbols no matter the religion.

[ranzino]

But plenty of people indeed wear crosses... what about the jews who have shilocks?

seems nobody appeared in the town hall with that before.
fair guess: as soon that person mentioned it as religious related: GTFO or hide it immediately. No exceptions for jews.

[Daymanmb]

"In 1973, a Jew complained successfully that his freedom of religion was violated by the obligation to speak in a German courtroom decorated by a cross."

Freedom of Religion is not the same as Freedom from Religion. Clearly they got this decision wrong. But I guess its backwards to not care what religion people affiliate themselves with.

[Ichifails]

"In 1973, a Jew complained successfully that his freedom of religion was violated by the obligation to speak in a German courtroom decorated by a cross."

Freedom of Religion is not the same as Freedom from Religion. Clearly they got this decision wrong. But I guess its backwards to not care what religion people affiliate themselves with.

Germany protects both Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion
Besides collective, German law protects individual freedom of religion, which is to be distinguished into positive and negative freedom of religion. Negative freedom of religion covers the right not to confess your faith unless legally required (i. e. registration for church tax) and the right not to be exposed to religion while in a position of "subordination" where one is legally required to attend.

[munkeyinorbit]

She was born female.

Are you assuming the individuals gender?

[ranzino]

"In 1973, a Jew complained successfully that his freedom of religion was violated by the obligation to speak in a German courtroom decorated by a cross."

Freedom of Religion is not the same as Freedom from Religion. Clearly they got this decision wrong. But I guess its backwards to not care what religion people affiliate themselves with.

Town clerk is the same as court room: both cannot decorate themselves with a cross...or headscarf. your turn ....

[Deleted]

"In 1973, a Jew complained successfully that his freedom of religion was violated by the obligation to speak in a German courtroom decorated by a cross."

Freedom of Religion is not the same as Freedom from Religion. Clearly they got this decision wrong. But I guess its backwards to not care what religion people affiliate themselves with.

Good quote.

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Germany protects both Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion
Besides collective, German law protects individual freedom of religion, which is to be distinguished into positive and negative freedom of religion. Negative freedom of religion covers the right not to confess your faith unless legally required (i. e. registration for church tax) and the right not to be exposed to religion while in a position of "subordination" where one is legally required to attend.

But german citizens are NOT protected from muslims (muslim terrorists).

[ranzino]

Are you assuming the individuals gender?

we are in germany, we are not shy of genders. Elizabeth Herzog-von der Heide is female, she herself would say so and everybody and their grandma would say so.

[Ichifails]

But german citizens are NOT protected from muslims (muslim terrorists).

That's something you should take up with the mentally ill chancellor you guys/they have .

[Dextroden]

So, I'm detecting a lot of people that would defend Christians being able to have crosses and depictions of their deity at work if they'll defend a hand wrap that supposedly has no religious connotations and shouldn't get a religious exemption if true.