Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[FelPlague]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions (both MOP and WOTLK had bots, but during MOP there was probably much more bots and ppl who was botting on multiple accaunts)

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

And also making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

But Orcs getting alot of the hate.

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...urning-crusade User Score 7.8
Generally favorable reviews based on 749 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...-the-lich-king User Score 7.4
Mixed or average reviews based on 874 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...raft-cataclysm User Score 5.5 Mixed or average reviews based on 916 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...rds-of-draenor 5.9 Mixed or average reviews based on 1078 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria 4.8 Generally unfavorable reviews based on 1226 Ratings

Some gameplay improvments like Toys Tab,Cross-faction Auction House, Cross-Battlegroup Arena was great and made Arena/Random bg queues faster but Lorewise and storyline wise WOTLK Raids and Quest chains was better.

i.. i dont even know god as where the fuck to start....
in wrath orcs wrere bad guys aswel, look at how horrible garrosh was, and we did fight a few orc deaht knights... but yeah orcs where the bad guys for wod, and the end of mop... so what... they were the bag guys in BC for alot of it, all of HFP, including 3 dungeons and 1 raid, you seem to love making the orcs seem to be the good guys, by ignoring all the bad they did

massacred dranei because the legion told them so
invaded a planet and slaughtered their people
forsake the elements, manipulating them and turning to warlock-ism....
worked with their own people to destroy their own planet


yes the orcs are not super evil, but they have done alot of fucked up shit in their lives.... and they are bloodthirsty by nature...

and overall the horde is just the right out more evil faction

goblins only out to make a profit
orcs bloodthirsty and warmongering from the demonblood in their bodies
blood elves selfish and snobby
tauren are rather fine
trolls are abit iffy... they do go into the dark arts but are rather peaceful themselves...
undead monsters of nature, murdering and experimenting on life itself....


meanwhile

humans trying to defend and keep their people and honour intact
night elves trying to keep the nature healthy and fruitful
draenei just trying to find a place to live long enough to build a force to counter the legion
gnomes are techies, who yeah do cause some issues... but overall doing their best
worgens who are assholes who locked themselves away from the first war...
dwarves who simply want to protect the earth and their people

and pandaren just want to protect their home, and look how that turned out, the alliance ones are fine, well the horde one got beat to near death.... from his own faction....

does that mean horde is evil alliance good? no, both have done questionable things...

but overall the horde is the worse of the two...

[Allatar]

You have to kill Orcs in Northshire as a human because the scum have spewed out of Blackrock Mountain and are proceeding to burn the vineyards of the Abbey. They are destroying and burning and you have to stop them. Defence of your lands from an evil aggressor is not evil.

Burning VINEYARDS!!! Think of all the wasted wine.

[Maletalana]

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

Hey just wanted to discuss this issue, The Hordebreaker title was created in reference to the civil war that broke out for the horde during the end of Pandaria, with the equivalent title being Darkspear Revolutionary. There cannot be a Alliancebreaker title, because the Alliance has not been broken in two by a civil war. The title is not really saying "I broke the Horde, Alliance rulez, rather, it is referencing that that character took part in the civil war during that patch of the game. For Alliance players, that meant sieging Garrosh's Orgrimmar during a time of weakness, which is fine, because they are rivaling nations, that's war. For Horde, it is stating that that character chose to take part in the revolution lead by Vol'Jin of the Darkspear Tribe during the civil war.

I am all for Alliancebreaker (or a better-phrased variation obvi) as a concept for a title, but it cannot randomly come into existence. There would need to be perhaps a conflict similar to such a civil war for the Alliance.

Going out on a wildly thin limb here, purely for the sake of this concept, let's say Magni goes nuts and claims that dwarves are the superior race, and kicks out the other races from Ironforge. This would be parallel to what Garrosh did to Orgrimmar. Horde players could partake in the raid to siege Ironforge and defeat Magni, and gain the title... Conqueror of Ironforge / Alliance Assaulter or something. Alliance players would join the side of say, Mekatorque, who will take control of Ironforge and return the city to the greater control of the Alliance, again in parallel to Vol'Jin becoming the new leader of Orgrimmar. Mekatorque of course would be stabbed during the next expansions cinematic and die like a common foot soldier for some reason, but that's none of my business. /sips tea

Edit- forgot to include the possible Alliance title, it would need to be Gnomergan Enthusiast, clearly

[Luckx]

You have to kill Orcs in Northshire as a human because the scum have spewed out of Blackrock Mountain and are proceeding to burn the vineyards of the Abbey. They are destroying and burning and you have to stop them. Defence of your lands from an evil aggressor is not evil.

Burning VINEYARDS!!! Think of all the wasted wine.

Well Alliance humans and Scarlet Crusade humans doing almost the same stuff in Forsaken starting area.

"The people who called this land their home in life, do so in death as well. But the alliance does not recognize our rights. They claim this land is their own while attempting to invalidate the claims of the founders of this kingdom. I will never allow it.... Never! Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken - always and forever."


— Lady Sylvanas Windrunner

Also even pre Theramore mana bombing humans was doing alot evil stuff in Kalimdor questing areas, if you quested as Horde.

[Justpassing]

This isn't your everyday shitposting...this is ADVANCED shitposting.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

The only way they can achieve this is to put an end to their two-dimensional writing and bury Jaina under the sea.

[Maletalana]

but overall the horde is the worse of the two...

This last line is the only real issue I have, that is just too subjective. I do not like to define every member of a particular race based on some of that races examples. Is Thrall a bad person because he is an Orc? Of course not, he is one the most good and noble individuals in lore. Only some Forsaken are evil and experiment with life itself. I will go so far as to say that the majority of Forsaken are along for the ride, they did not choose to belong with Sylvannas, she is just the only faction of sentient Forsaken --- Specifically, not all elves became blood elves and followed Kael'thas, some stayed with the Alliance and are just high elves. Speaking of Blood Elves, I don't like "selfish and snobby", in fact, the movement to leave the Alliance and join the Horde was caused by blunt racism and indecent treatment by some humans of Lordaeron. They act out of self-preservation and retribution.

All this being said I will state that I am nearly exclusively an Alliance player, but that is not without the perspectives and understanding of the other factions story and lore and history. (not a horde fanboy)

[HumbleDuck]

Well, slavery and humanoid test subjects are condoned under Horde standards in the actual game, so my RP playstyle may be more accurate to the game than yours is.

Oh, I didn't mean to insult your playstyle. It is just that the extent of my care for hord or alliance is racial traits.

[judgementofantonidas]

.

blizzard is just about the only company that tried to pull the poor poor pity me switcharoo with orde faction races.

[Maletalana]

in WOTLK there is quest in Borean Tundra where you as Horde helping Alliance by sending them back escaped human deserter and Alliance commander thankes you.

Excellent example of anti-racism in WoW, thanks!

I haven't played through Horde WotLK in many years.

[Darktbs]

The Horde was originally a army of genocidal monsters in the second war its was just justified as the "Orchish way"by Doomhammer,but guess what,they was still runing rampage in Eastern kingdoms.

Then Thrall comes in,makes the Horde good and honorable.Then you have Hellscream,despite Thrall's warning still gave in to the demons.But hey he "killed" Mannoroth and now is a hero.

Then the horde stay in peace until Cata.Garrosh comes in,start a campaign in Kalimdor.BUT HEY,IN A HONORABLE WAY THEY WILL KILL EVERY NIGHT ELF IN KALIMDOR.Then MoP happened and there is some much fucked up shit followed by WoD.You get the idea.

The other races do bad things,but compared to the Orcs and the Horde.They basically have a culture that justifie genocide.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Oh, I didn't mean to insult your playstyle. It is just that the extent of my care for hord or alliance is racial traits.

If that is all that you play for, then you'd only choose a single race for every single character.

[Luckx]

This isn't your everyday shitposting...this is ADVANCED shitposting.

lol dude why u posting from 2 accaunts, and im afraid the only s. posting here is urs

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lks-into-a-bar

...and the bartender asks: "So how are you Varian?". Varian says "Not good, I'm kinda all over the place."

[MattEffect]

Filthy rotten orcs, I'll slaughter you all!

[Bumbac]

So much time put into typing this OP and for nothing.

[Holofernes]

we all know that orkc are evil monsters.

A world with one Orc less has become a better world.

Its not anyone making them bad, they are bad and foul from the beginning. There are some "okish" orks for story reasons, but in reality they all want to be Garrosh, Guldan, Nerzhul and what ever mad combined in one Person.

[Lex Icon]

eh i wouldn't mind the Horde becoming the bad guys.. sometimes that's more fun than being a typical hero.

[Deleted]

Well Alliance humans and Scarlet Crusade humans doing almost the same stuff in Forsaken starting area.

"The people who called this land their home in life, do so in death as well. But the alliance does not recognize our rights. They claim this land is their own while attempting to invalidate the claims of the founders of this kingdom. I will never allow it.... Never! Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken - always and forever."


— Lady Sylvanas Windrunner

Also even pre Theramore mana bombing humans was doing alot evil stuff in Kalimdor questing areas, if you quested as Horde.

Sooooo #undeadlivesmatter?

[Aquinan]

The only good Orc is a dead Orc.

Broxxigar, the only mortal (orc) to wound Sargeras, and sacrificed himself during the War of the Ancients so the nelfs had time to unfuck the world due to Azshara (nelf).

So fuck off.

[Deleted]

Excellent example of anti-racism in WoW, thanks!

I haven't played through Horde WotLK in many years.

And then there are the Quests at mord'rethar where alliance players have to mercykill their own soldiers while hordeplayers have to spitekill alliance soldiers.

Broxxigar, the only mortal (orc) to wound Sargeras, and sacrificed himself during the War of the Ancients so the nelfs had time to unfuck the world due to Azshara (nelf).

So fuck off.

So you are saying Broxxigar is a good orc and he also is dead.
How exactly do you disagree?