Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[Deleted]

Well, the best raiding guilds in the world are Horde. They have to balance it somehow.

[Deleted]

Well, the best raiding guilds in the world are Horde. They have to balance it somehow.

That has nothing to do with Alliance players beeing idiots, it's just that the Horde Racials are/were better in PvE. Just like during the last PvP-season everyone and their mother played Human. Must be because people that choose to play Alliance are jsut better players by nature <.<

[Luckx]

we all know that orkc are evil monsters.

A world with one Orc less has become a better world.

Its not anyone making them bad, they are bad and foul from the beginning. There are some "okish" orks for story reasons, but in reality they all want to be Garrosh, Guldan, Nerzhul and what ever mad combined in one Person.

“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you” Friedrich Nietzsche

When some one viewing other race as race of monsters he also becoming some kind of monster simmiliar to Scarlet Crusade, and Othmar Garithos

So much time put into typing this OP and for nothing.

i was typing original post for less than 2-3 mins, got differences responses here, and from them learned that some ppl hate Orcs even as npcs

u put so much time in typing this http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...re-meaningless but after 10 days no one even posted in ur thread

[JustRob]

Broxxigar, the only mortal (orc) to wound Sargeras, and sacrificed himself during the War of the Ancients so the nelfs had time to unfuck the world due to Azshara (nelf).

So fuck off.

Richard A. Knaak.

So fuck off.

[Holofernes]

“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you” Friedrich Nietzsche

When some one viewing other race as race of monsters he also becoming some kind of monster simmiliar to Scarlet Crusade, and Othmar Garithos


i was typing original post for less than 2-3 mins, got differences responses here, and from them learned that some ppl hate Orcs even as npcs

u put so much time in typing this http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...re-meaningless but after 10 days no one even posted in ur thread

hmm did u play the games in the warcraft universum?
orcs wipe out dranei. orcs destroy planet. orks summon demons /burning crusade. orcs invade azeroth. orc shaman controls scourge. Orcs bomb theramore. Orcs take power from corrupted gods. Orcs still fail and make another try of all the same shit via alternate universe. Still fail. Ork escapes from alternate universe and trys to do the summon demons /burning crusade stuff again.

Orks are as evil as the burning legion is, but they learned to play the victim card too.

[Leih]

Broxxigar, the only mortal (orc) to wound Sargeras, and sacrificed himself during the War of the Ancients so the nelfs had time to unfuck the world due to Azshara (nelf).

So fuck off.

Funny you should use Broxxigar as an example.

He's a pretty dead Orc.

[Luckx]

hmm did u play the games in the warcraft universum?
orcs wipe out dranei. orcs destroy planet. orks summon demons /burning crusade. orcs invade azeroth. orc shaman controls scourge. Orcs bomb theramore. Orcs take power from corrupted gods. Orcs still fail and make another try of all the same shit via alternate universe. Still fail. Ork escapes from alternate universe and trys to do the summon demons /burning crusade stuff again.

Orks are as evil as the burning legion is, but they learned to play the victim card too.

Burning Legion was summoned by Nightborne Night Elves. Scourge was under Lich King command when wiped 90% of High Elf/Blood Elf population. When Scourge was wiping Blood Elves Alliance did not come to help despite that their army was close.

Most Scourge death knights and necromancers was Humans and only few of them was Orcs. Humans did alot crimes in Kalimdor pre Themore mana-boming.

Arthas was human before he became Lich King, Scarlet Crusade are mostly humans.

Gul'Dan is probably not real Orc anymore in Warcraft movie main characters call him a Demon. And in Warcraft movie Orcs help Alliance to defeat Gul'Dan instead of allying with Gul'dan. Some humans and night elves simmilar to Gul'Dan served the Legion.

My first character in WOW was Alliance, Night Elf, and im playing both factions. And im not saying that X race is bad and Y race is good.

Im saying that there is good and bad characters among any race.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions (both MOP and WOTLK had bots, but during MOP there was probably much more bots and ppl who was botting on multiple accaunts)

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Wrath may well have been better than MoP/WoD but the reasons for that are far deeper than what we were fighting. People disliked MoP for its Asian theme and WoD for its lack of content.
The majority of MoP content wise was fighting the Pandaren locals. Fighting Orcs was only present in 5.3/5.4
Warlords saw us fighting a lot of orcs while levelling, but we also saw Arrakoa, Gronn, Ogres, Ogron. Definitely not just orcs. Then in 6.2, we fought Demons. Sure, orcs were still present, but it was definitely a majority of demons.

And also making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Cairne turned against Garrosh not because he was an orc, but because he was a bad leader. He challenged him for leadership, which was totally valid. The Tauren are still very much a part of the Horde.
History is not a valid argument, if your allies are doing something wrong you challenge them on it, as Cairne did, or you leave, as Vol'jin did.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

But Orcs getting alot of the hate.

The Nelves may have brought the Legion originally, but the Orcs came serving the Legion. Not to mention that the War of the Ancients was 10,000 years ago, while the first Orcish invasion was only about 30 years ago. Far fresher wound in people's minds. The Draenei may have attracted the Legion to Draenor, but the Orcs chose to serve them.
If you're so keen to get your revenge on the Elves, you'll get your chance. Nighthold is an elven raid.

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

There's a degree of orc fatigue in the community, and this is being rectified in Legion. We're fighting the Demons, potentially the Old Gods at some point.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

It's not wrong that the title was given. It made sense. They broke Garrosh's "True Horde." When there's a good reason to invade Stormwind, I'll be happy to do it, but balancing it out for some nonsensical faction death equality makes no sense.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...urning-crusade User Score 7.8
Generally favorable reviews based on 749 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...-the-lich-king User Score 7.4
Mixed or average reviews based on 874 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...raft-cataclysm User Score 5.5 Mixed or average reviews based on 916 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...rds-of-draenor 5.9 Mixed or average reviews based on 1078 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria 4.8 Generally unfavorable reviews based on 1226 Ratings

Some gameplay improvments like Toys Tab,Cross-faction Auction House, Cross-Battlegroup Arena was great and made Arena/Random bg queues faster but Lorewise and storyline wise WOTLK Raids and Quest chains was better.

Your argument is metacritic? People usually disregard metacritic, it's not a great site to use generally, but as I mentioned above there are way way bigger issues with WoD and MoP than fighting too many orcs.
I think it's worth noting that I'm a Horde player, I realise I may have come across as an angry alliance kid, but I main horde and favour orcs as my race of choice. It's just that I don't mind fighting orcs if they're bad. Wrath saw us fighting undead and you don't see Forsaken players complaining about Wrath. We fight trolls every other expansion and the Troll players don't complain. There are all sorts of evil human factions we fight against regularly like the Defias and the Scarlet Crusade. Blood Elves fought their king Kael'Thas during the Burning Crusade.
Characters are more than just their race. There are good and evil examples of nearly every race on Azeroth

[Holofernes]

u now that nerzhul (ork shaman) is the guy that controlled /invented the scourge in behalf of the burning legion, and l arthas was forced /persuaded by nerzhuls spirit to melt with him to become lichking? the headpiece lk is wearing, is called crown of nerzhul for a reason. Its not the elves that did conjure the legion, it was nerzhul/lk on its order.
And nerzhul became an agent of the legion long before the orks were on azeroth, he wiped out the dranei on behalf of Kil jaeden.

Nerzhul is the prototype of the evil corrupt orc, and guldan was his aprentice. Nerzhul was so stupid, he even tried to betray the legion.

[glorygores]

Well, slavery and humanoid test subjects are condoned under Horde standards in the actual game, so my RP playstyle may be more accurate to the game than yours is.

Slavery is also condoned under Alliance standards too. As is torture / humanoid test subjects.

Take blindfolds off please : )

[luccadeo]

Well, my Alliance characters see the Horde as cowards (most them still, since they did already, those that didn't do now from the Broken Shore event). When I play my Horde characters I do play a villainous style RP. One of them is a witch (female warlock) that kills all sorts of innocent people for the Horde and then uses their souls for her own lust for power, the other is a Demon Hunter that is pro-felblood, acting in favor that the Sin'dorei should just accept the power that has already corrupting their blood by teaching them to learn and master it and ultimately overtake the Horde, subjugating it from the top.

Hell, my horde toons see the horde as nothing but beaten dog cowards after broken shore.

[Aquinan]

Funny you should use Broxxigar as an example.

He's a pretty dead Orc.

Typical Alliance shortsighted narrow mindedness. You should be a politician.

[pmkaboo]

What if some one want to RP a good lawful Orc

hes playing the wrong game then.

[Combatbutler]

People have their preferences, the horde is clearly the far more flawed faction and as such does far more shady stuff, the Alliance on the other hand is our stereotypical good fantasy faction, with little to no flaws and as such hardly have any real shake ups.

Though that was not always the case, the Alliance during the second war was deeply divided and was scheming against each other, but alas those days are long gone.

[Jotaux]

The Horde is clearly the good guys, while the alliance is like Nazi Germany.

[DeadmanWalking]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Edit: i think i did mistake by touching too much subjects in one post, just wanted to say that fighting forces like Scourge/Lich King/Scarlet Crusade is much more fun than fighting Orc npcs like Garrosh kor'krons/Iron Horde. Apologies



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Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

But Orcs getting alot of the hate.

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

Orcs were not peaceful before the Legion showed up. They have a culture of war, and if they don't have an enemy to unify against they often devolved into attacking other Orc Tribes. The way of the warrior is the backbone of their society, they must struggle or they will find a struggle. The Draenei themselves hid their society for the most part from Orcs because they didn't want the orcs to see them as an opponent which must be warred against. It wasn't hard to get the Orcs under the influence of the Legion because Orcs are prone to throwing themselves into battles to prove themselves. There is honor in battle and if there is no battle there is no honor to be won.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Slavery is also condoned under Alliance standards too. As is torture / humanoid test subjects.

Take blindfolds off please : )

Show me, then.

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Hell, my horde toons see the horde as nothing but beaten dog cowards after broken shore.

Agreed. "Lok'tar Ogar" doesn't mean shit anymore.

[Jotaux]

Orcs were not peaceful before the Legion showed up. They have a culture of war, and if they don't have an enemy to unify against they often devolved into attacking other Orc Tribes. The way of the warrior is the backbone of their society, they must struggle or they will find a struggle. The Draenei themselves hid their society for the most part from Orcs. It wasn't hard to get the Orcs under the influence of the Legion because Orcs are prone to throwing themselves into battles to prove themselves. There is honor in battle and if there is no battle there is no honor to be won.

They met peacefully every year at Oshugun or w/e that mountain was called. The Draenei and the Orcs traded a little but mostly kept to themselves. There was peace.

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Agreed. "Lok'tar Ogar" doesn't mean shit anymore.

It's victory or death and in order to obtain victory you have to retreat sometimes. The Horde merely chose victory over death.

[DeadmanWalking]

hes playing the wrong game then.

Broxigar /endtopic

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They met peacefully every year at Oshugun or w/e that mountain was called. The Draenei and the Orcs traded a little but mostly kept to themselves. There was peace.

- - - Updated - - -



It's victory or death and in order to obtain victory you have to retreat sometimes. The Horde merely chose victory over death.

In the first books the Orcs talk about how the tribes, having no common enemy, have turned against one another as young orcs seek to prove their worth to their own tribes creating a spiral of never ending war among orcs and how the best solution would be to find new enemies on the other side of the portal. So no, Orcs are not a peaceful race. Tauren are a peaceful race, they just want to live in harmony with the earth mother. They typically do not seek out war with their neighbors and if they can't find any they don't go about killing one another.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It's victory or death and in order to obtain victory you have to retreat sometimes. The Horde merely chose victory over death.

No, running like pansies isn't a victory, not by a long shot.