[Balance] Legion Discussion

[wing5wong]

Anyone else had the Starfall bug in last night's raid? I didn't notice anything wrong.

think the hotfix on front page was for that.
not really sure what aoe immune mobs there were in hfc though

[huth]

It might have been triggered by invisible trigger bunnies and such.

So then does our stat priority change for single target when we're not taking FoE

Not enough to really matter. It would just make mastery weaker, but it's already at the bottom so that doesn't change much.

[Tyze]

Im a bit concern..
I mean, I feel like I put alot more effort on my Boomkin than my Mage. I wonder how good Boomkins will be compared to them

[Vorpalspork]

Im a bit concern..
I mean, I feel like I put alot more effort on my Boomkin than my Mage. I wonder how good Boomkins will be compared to them

Well, I expect fire mage will continue to dominate. Boomkins are still fun and decent. I'm not sure how well they will do in Mythic+ due to the AoE ramp up problems, but other than that, they seem solid.

[thilicen]

So this is the first time I'm actually going to try hard at min-maxing. Since mastery is weak, would the optimal setup be to have literally no mastery on your gear, or is there a sweet spot one should aim for?

[Frostyfire14]

I find it hard to believe that vers outweighs mastery, doesn't mastery scale way better than vers? Especially with the hotfix

[Deleted]

I find it hard to believe that vers outweighs mastery, doesn't mastery scale way better than vers? Especially with the hotfix

nope.

So this is the first time I'm actually going to try hard at min-maxing. Since mastery is weak, would the optimal setup be to have literally no mastery on your gear, or is there a sweet spot one should aim for?

Pretty much. It gains some value with specific talents/legendaries where it can compete with crit and/or vers, but rest of the time you want 0 unless it is a big ilvl upgrade or has a socket. Trinkets are an exception, as it depends a lot on the other effect.

[huth]

So this is the first time I'm actually going to try hard at min-maxing. Since mastery is weak, would the optimal setup be to have literally no mastery on your gear, or is there a sweet spot one should aim for?

As little as feasible while maintaining acceptable iLvl. It's low value, not no value.

Besides, we have mastery on our artifact, so avoiding it entirely is impossible.

[Keiyra]

I find it hard to believe that vers outweighs mastery, doesn't mastery scale way better than vers? Especially with the hotfix

in terms of just stat coversion yes, it takes less stats to get 1% mastery than it does to get 1% vers.

But vers works on ALL your sources of damage, while mastery does not. That is why vers is being seen as better (works on Fury of Elune, your moon moon spells, all your unempowered nukes and dot ticks, Power of Goldrin (i think), possibly even on treants (not sure), trinket damage procs if any, etc - you get the idea

[anosh]

Has anyone really got to the higher mythic + dungeons with a halfway good item level as boomkin? I know we will not be the best due to slow rampup on AOE but how far down are we?

[Frostyfire14]

in terms of just stat coversion yes, it takes less stats to get 1% mastery than it does to get 1% vers.

But vers works on ALL your sources of damage, while mastery does not. That is why vers is being seen as better (works on Fury of Elune, your moon moon spells, all your unempowered nukes and dot ticks, Power of Goldrin (i think), possibly even on treants (not sure), trinket procs if any, etc - you get the idea

Thank you for the explanation

[huth]

in terms of just stat coversion yes, it takes less stats to get 1% mastery than it does to get 1% vers.

But vers works on ALL your sources of damage, while mastery does not. That is why vers is being seen as better (works on Fury of Elune, your moon moon spells, all your unempowered nukes and dot ticks, Power of Goldrin (i think), possibly even on treants (not sure), trinket damage procs if any, etc - you get the idea

Should work on treants. In fact, it'd be a bug if it doesn't.

[Cyous]

Should work on treants. In fact, it'd be a bug if it doesn't.

Treants inherit your Crit, Haste, Vers, and Spell Power

[Keiyra]

Awesome sauce

[huth]

Treants inherit your Crit, Haste, Vers, and Spell Power

I think purely technically they even inherit Mastery, it just doesn't do anything for them.

For that matter, Stamina and armor. They're fairly tanky considering they only last 10s and there's 3 of them. They tend to survive their full duration unless you sick them on something like the invasion Fel Reavers(what's up with their melee damage anyway? 300k? You kidding me?)

[robbymc88]

i keep hearing about the "slow ramp up time for aoe" but from the beta videos I've seen it seems fairly quick to gain astral power for star fall. I'm kinda confused

[Dragontoth]

i keep hearing about the "slow ramp up time for aoe" but from the beta videos I've seen it seems fairly quick to gain astral power for star fall. I'm kinda confused

Dots are your prime damage source in AoE, so before starfalling you have to get dots on all mobs and hope they live long enough for your dots to matter against stuff like bladestorm, eyebeam etc.

[Keiyra]

i keep hearing about the "slow ramp up time for aoe" but from the beta videos I've seen it seems fairly quick to gain astral power for star fall. I'm kinda confused

Assuming BoE and SOTF
starting at 0 AP
Well lets say you got 4 targets: moonfire x4 +sunfire+ SW x4 + starfall +sunfire refresh+refresh moonfires.
Thats 10 GCD's before your dots are empowered and you star doing "real" aoe damage. Thats an awfully long wait compared to other aoe.

The alternative is to skip dots, wrath x 5 +sunfire+starfall+moonfire spam. Still takes 7 GCDs, and you are getting less empowered dot ticks for all that AP you spent.

Using LS is more splash damage but its even slower (since it has a lower AP/Sec value).

Its great against long lived adds...but against stuff that isn't - 7-10 gcd's and they are likely dead already

[Deleted]

starting at 0 AP

This is a very poor assumption for the vast majority of cases. If you play it right you always pool astral power for the next pull. The only time this aint possible is on the very first pack in the dungeon, and when you die.

[Tyze]

Just some question for Starfall and Aoe.

So lets say there's like 25 things stacked, and we get to use one Sunfire so everyone is dotted. What's best, to dot everyone up with Moonfire aswell or just spam Lunar Strike and dump Starfall?