No Safe Space For You! U of Chicago warns students.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Well this then is the obvious point of departure. I don't believe this is the biggest issue facing our universities, you obviously do.

I am able to teach freely, and incorporate difficult and contentious topics of discussion in my classrooms easily, and rigorous debate is never a problem. I ask that students think before they speak and maintain a respectful atmosphere, I don't demand any special rules of them and they don't of me. Have you ever considered that this problem has been wildly sensationalized by a rabid media? I've been teaching for 5 years here, I've never had a problem.

You're also in Canada, right?

This are much, much, much, different here in America.



















It goes on and on and on and on and on...

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

Harambe Rises.

[kail]

I'm not even happy such a thing needs to be addressed. But I suppose it's far better than the alternative.

[Finith]

You're also in Canada, right?

This are much, much, much, different here in America.



















It goes on and on and on and on and on...

Yes I am in Canada, not America. Though I teach at a university with a reputation of being very socially active (I was in fact warned of this before I came here). And there are detailed policies on safe spaces, trigger warnings are I believe more up to the individual (I choose to, others may not, and I respect their choice, as they respect mine). Ideally, these spaces facilitate discussion by allowing historically silenced voices a platform from which to speak, they do not staunch discussion by denying alternative viewpoints the right to exist. If anything your anger should be at the over-politicizing of facts themselves. When facts are politicized, knowledge loses its place completely.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Yes I am in Canada, not America. Though I teach at a university with a reputation of being very socially active (I was in fact warned of this before I came here). And there are detailed policies on safe spaces, trigger warnings are I believe more up to the individual (I choose to, others may not, and I respect their choice, as they respect mine). Ideally, these spaces facilitate discussion by allowing historically silenced voices a platform from which to speak, they do not staunch discussion by denying alternative viewpoints the right to exist. If anything your anger should be at the over-politicizing of facts themselves. When facts are politicized, knowledge loses its place completely.

Would you be able to share that policy?

Like is there an actual official document that you're allowed to make public?

If not, or if you don't want to give up personal identifying information I understand.

But I am curious how it's defined, enacted, and then enforced.

Because I've seen a few batshit insane ones from American schools that go as far as to threaten staff with dismissal over such inane things as, for example, the use of gender specific pronouns.

[Dadwen]

Nice, good to see a collage still set on preparing people for the real world.

[Katchii]

I'm sorry, was your primary contention not that you don't see how trigger warnings are effective if the student cannot simply leave (they can)? A brief moment is usually all it takes, sometimes this is not the case, most of the time it is. I don't know where the confusion is, I am not telling students not to contend with difficult issues, I am respecting that some things can have a very personal element to some students, that is all. I still expect that they will find a way to know the material, and I try to work with them if I need to find an alternative method.

Of course a syllabus will contain outlines of all lectures and appropriate materials, this does not mean that it is useless to emphasize when a particular discussion has the potential to raise issues for students.

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Well this then is the obvious point of departure. I don't believe this is the biggest issue facing our universities, you obviously do.

I am able to teach freely, and incorporate difficult and contentious topics of discussion in my classrooms easily, and rigorous debate is never a problem. I ask that students think before they speak and maintain a respectful atmosphere, I don't demand any special rules of them and they don't of me. Have you ever considered that this problem has been wildly sensationalized by a rabid media? I've been teaching for 5 years here, I've never had a problem.

- - - Updated - - -



No, I just haven't had the experience of toxic safe spaces that you have. It is possible that in some cases it works, while in others it does not, you know. Perhaps its useful in a place like this when a topic like this comes up (which it does endlessly) to see someone who actually teaches in one of these places telling people they haven't suffered from the horrible blight of safe spaces, just so it isn't a universal spinning of the wheel where everyone is in a frenzy to agree with each other hardest.

To clarify, at least what my view the issue has evolved into, is that it's not the people who have real, valid sensitivities to subjects because of real life experiences (a rape victim discussing rape for example) that are the problem. It's the people who get "triggered" because a term, phrase, idea or conversation discusses or touches on something they just don't like or agree with and is in opposition to what they think or believe and project their beliefs onto everyone else and throw a bratty shit fit to try and make sure they don't have to acknowledge or deal with the fact those other ideas exist. And in some cases it's not even that specific individual who is actually "triggered" they're just speaking up about it because they THINK a group of people they know or identify with might find the topic objectionable. That's the asinine part, it's not about protecting legitimate victims from traumatic experiences, it's turned into privileged brats trying to "protect" themselves from ideas, words, terms people and conversations that don't agree with their limited world view.

That is the perceived problem, and is how the problem is being presented in the media ,which is obviously skewed as it comes from the media, but that's how the problem is being conveyed. And in my experience with this, it's fairly accurate (as accurate as any sweeping statement can be).

That is why the terms "safe spaces" and "trigger warning" have become somewhat comedic, because it's being used in such a ludicrous way.

[Eleccybubb]

Nice, good to see a collage still set on preparing people for the real world.

Don't worry if you fancy moving all of ours here don't have chickenshit.. I mean "safe spaces". UK btw

[Tico]

Free speech means free speech. That is good.
However, under-informed and/or manipulative people (depends which side we are talking about) can make such place a dangerous one.

[Finith]

Would you be able to share that policy?

Like is there an actual official document that you're allowed to make public?

If not, or if you don't want to give up personal identifying information I understand.

But I am curious how it's defined, enacted, and then enforced.

Because I've seen a few batshit insane ones from American schools that go as far as to threaten staff with dismissal over such inane things as, for example, the use of gender specific pronouns.

Apologies, do you mean failing to use the gender pronoun preferred by the student? For instance, if a student make its clear that they prefer a particular pronoun, and you continue to ignore it, There are steps the student could take against you, but the likelihood of any serious reprimand is quite low. A professor did lose their course recently, but this was only after several weeks of making incredibly transphobic comments, singling out trans students in lectures and effectively comdemning them in front of the class. A missed pronoun, as you can see, is of a rather different degree of seriousness than say, what this individual was indulging in.

Again this is mostly personal choice, when I take initial attendance I have my students say their own names, so that I can pick up on if anyone has a preferred pronoun, if they make no mention of it, I just refer to them based on the class list.

[Dystemper]

These universities and colleges are not doing the students any favors by giving them "safe spaces" and the whole trigger nonsense. These kids are incredibly unprepared for life out in the real world already. I want to see more of this and the SJW movement die quick death

[Wulfey]

Am I the only one who thinks this SJW stuff is a mirage put together by wingnuts and haters? I never knew any of these SJWs. I went to UCLA undergrad and law school, I never saw a safe space. We had all kinds of irritating protestors in protestor alley. UCLA law is like the liberalist place on earth and we had some all star conservative law professors. Hell we had a guy who wrote about the harms of affirmative action. I get that a few 21 year old community college girls who are experimenting with eating box and veganism and cat ownership have some silly opinions, but I just don't see this as a real movement that needs this kind of opposition.

EDIT: my suspicion is that the SJW movement is a straw man put up by people who want to show how for free speech they are by attacking the straw man.

[tehealadin]

In any case, to U of Chicago



Now if only we could make sure that all colleges get this safe space nonsense removed from their campuses.

Pretty much this.

[Kapadons]

This all seems to stem from a shift in thinking that "words hurt". As long as I can remember , we were taught that words do not hurt and that just because someone calls you a fat ugly piece of shit, you shouldn't react in a negative way, and you really shouldn't react at all. This is what led to trigger warnings and safe spaces.

If you go through life not really giving a shit what other people (often strangers) think or say about you, It's much easier to be happy.

Even now, if I called any one of you a dog faced retard with a lazy eye, it will more than likely roll right off your back. At worse you'll through in a "fuck this guy and what he thinks, he doesn't know me" and move along with your day. Part of it may be the anonymity of the Internet and the detachment we have. But I would applad anyone that could apply the same thinking to anyone they meet on the street or work with.

[Post]

I get that a few 21 year old community college girls who are experimenting with eating box and veganism and cat ownership have some silly opinions, but I just don't see this as a real movement that needs this kind of opposition.

EDIT: my suspicion is that the SJW movement is a straw man put up by people who want to show how for free speech they are by attacking the straw man.

Then you've missed a lot, like the president of a university who got bullied into resigning for no reason by these people.

This all seems to stem from a shift in thinking that "words hurt". As long as I can remember , we were taught that words do not hurt and that just because someone calls you a fat ugly piece of shit, you shouldn't react in a negative way, and you really shouldn't react at all. This is what led to trigger warnings and safe spaces.

Sticks and stones, etc.

[purebalance]

Yep. Thank god Cambridge and Oxford don't have it over here in the UK. 2 of the most prestigious Universities in our country if not the world. Here you can debate freely and people will actually debate instead of scream at you and demand safe spaces.

They're top 20 one of them is top 10. That aside some others in the top 20 do have safe spaces...

Although University of Maryland has a safe space for veterans lol kinda.

[Finith]

To clarify, at least what my view the issue has evolved into, is that it's not the people who have real, valid sensitivities to subjects because of real life experiences (a rape victim discussing rape for example) that are the problem. It's the people who get "triggered" because a term, phrase, idea or conversation discusses or touches on something they just don't like or agree with and is in opposition to what they think or believe and project their beliefs onto everyone else and throw a bratty shit fit to try and make sure they don't have to acknowledge or deal with the fact those other ideas exist. And in some cases it's not even that specific individual who is actually "triggered" they're just speaking up about it because they THINK a group of people they know or identify with might find the topic objectionable. That's the asinine part, it's not about protecting legitimate victims from traumatic experiences, it's turned into privileged brats trying to "protect" themselves from ideas, words, terms people and conversations that don't agree with their limited world view.

That is the perceived problem, and is how the problem is being presented in the media ,which is obviously skewed as it comes from the media, but that's how the problem is being conveyed. And in my experience with this, it's fairly accurate (as accurate as any sweeping statement can be).

That is why the terms "safe spaces" and "trigger warning" have become somewhat comedic, because it's being used in such a ludicrous way.

I won't lie and say it's some simple thing to navigate, because it isn't. Most all contentious or difficult subjects come with the possibility of encountering ways of thinking that are repugnant to us in some way or another. In some cases this feeling may be justified (Hitler's death camps were revolting and repugnant) and in other cases it may not be (You and I disagree on this political issue, so you are repugnant). I prefer to allow conversation to happen unless or until it becomes completely derailed (so for instance, if we're talking about trans issues and eventually we to the point where someone shouts out that trans people suffer from a mental illness, it is time to end the discussion). Much of this stems from what I believe is actually the far bigger problem, and that is the politicization of knowledge itself. One of the side effects of politicizing something is that people no longer tend to associate that thing with any tangible truth-clause; that is, it is no longer bound by fact. Go back to the example, there is a well established medical consensus that transgenderism is not a mental illness, but in a world run by ideology, the person who believes this to be true expects to be taken every bit as seriously as the person who does not.

Thankfully, I have not often had discussions reach such a point of no return, because I try to remain vigilant and remind my students to be respectful of each other.

Contentious topics should never be barred from discussion, but there is a difference between a contentious and useful discussion and a conversation that has lost its purpose.

[purebalance]

You're also in Canada, right?

This are much, much, much, different here in America.



















It goes on and on and on and on and on...

Lauren Southern is in Canada in that one clip where she had something dumped on her.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Apologies, do you mean failing to use the gender pronoun preferred by the student?

In the various instances occurring here in our schools its the use of a gender pronoun period which is being forbidden and the only acceptable means of referring to anything (not just a student) is with complete neutrality.

[purebalance]

Am I the only one who thinks this SJW stuff is a mirage put together by wingnuts and haters? I never knew any of these SJWs. I went to UCLA undergrad and law school, I never saw a safe space. We had all kinds of irritating protestors in protestor alley. UCLA law is like the liberalist place on earth and we had some all star conservative law professors. Hell we had a guy who wrote about the harms of affirmative action. I get that a few 21 year old community college girls who are experimenting with eating box and veganism and cat ownership have some silly opinions, but I just don't see this as a real movement that needs this kind of opposition.

EDIT: my suspicion is that the SJW movement is a straw man put up by people who want to show how for free speech they are by attacking the straw man.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to need you to explain your use of strawman here since it seems once again like one of those gross misuses of the term you usually find on these forums.