Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[Lady Dragonheart]

I suppose for you, the game shoulda ended during tanaan invasion, we ran then to shoulda just let them kill us. Or should have ended when we ran from the lich king in the dungeon sequence.

Considering that I was in a group that was able to reduce him to 1 HP while fighting the Undead waves, the game mechanics being the only thing stopping him from dying, yes. Granted, according to lore, the Scourge, despite being beaten back, needed a Lich King to "hold them back." Many people didn't buy that excuse, and I wasn't one of them. We should have slaughtered them all.

Weakness is running from your opposition. Strength is overcoming it.

[Jotaux]

Vol'jin definitely looks like a pansy in Broken Shore when compared to Varian rushing a mountain-size Fel Reaver. On the level of badass deaths, Varian's charging into battle and being overwhelmed after slaughtering several demons and a Fel Reaver tops Vol'jin's getting carried off and dying from his wounds from a few minions.

Both died, one gloriously, in battle. The other, not so much.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything I said but both ultimately died and both called for a retreat. We don't see who Vol'jin kills prior to being stabbed but it doesn't really matter.

I really have to wonder why the Alliance didn't make use of the time the Horde bought them considering one guy made it all the way to Gul'dan.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Both died, one looking like a retard cause he coulda lived, the other not so much cause he couldn't have, and he saved his entire faction and the entirety of azeroth for having the horde retreat to win the war.

Right, keep making excuses for their inability to win.

[Jotaux]

Right, keep making excuses for their inability to win.

But we do win from our choice to retreat.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything I said but both ultimately died and both called for a retreat. We don't see who Vol'jin kills prior to being stabbed but it doesn't really matter.

I really have to wonder why the Alliance didn't make use of the time the Horde bought them considering one guy made it all the way to Gul'dan.

This is really simple. One died in combat, the other ran and died anyway, a coward in a chair.

[beanman12345]

Right, keep making excuses for their inability to win.

considering we have won idk how many wars against countless villains and ultimately will against the legion, your argument's are just shit bad.

[Jotaux]

This is really simple. One died in combat, the other ran and died anyway, a coward in a chair.

Vol'jin did what he had to do to win.

[beanman12345]

This is really simple. One died in combat, the other ran and died anyway, a coward in a chair.

keep making excuses why your leader died for nothing.

[Lady Dragonheart]

But we do win from our choice to retreat.

No, you do not. Running away is not winning. You may win, eventually, maybe, down the line, but you still lost and you still look cowardly for running away. There is no honor is fleeing from a fight because you are too weak to win. You can make excuses as much as you want. Choosing not to fight when opposed is cowardly.

[beanman12345]

No, you do not. Running away is not winning. You may win, eventually, maybe, down the line, but you still lost and you still look cowardly for running away. There is no honor is fleeing from a fight because you are too weak to win. You can make excuses as much as you want. Choosing not to fight when opposed is cowardly.

I'd rather look like a coward to morons who can't look at things objectively , than be the complete retard's you are argueing we should be.

[Lady Dragonheart]

keep making excuses why your leader died for nothing.

Vol'jin did die for nothing. Everyone is already more concerned with Sylvanas that he's essentially already forgotten. He ran, a coward, and thus he'll be forgotten as one, as he should. Which is fine, because I never liked Vol'jin as my warchief, anyway. Good riddance.

[beanman12345]

Vol'jin did die for nothing. Everyone is already more concerned with Sylvanas that he's essentially already forgotten. He ran, a coward, and thus he'll be forgotten as one, as he should. Which is fine, because I never liked Vol'jin as my warchief, anyway. Good riddance.

vol'jin died saving his faction and all of azeroth. Varian died, because he chose to, and didn't save a single person. only varian died for nothing. Saying any different is nothing but a lie.

[Lady Dragonheart]

You don't actually think that battle could have been won if the Horde didn't leave, do you? You realize it was an ambush on the cliff, right? Neither side was expecting there to be that many Legion forces up there. If the Horde stayed, they would have all died and then all the Alliance would have also. The Horde leaving ultimately saved the Alliance, because they too decided to pull out.

I disagree, being a Horde player, but that's just my opinion.

[Koreche]

Vol'jin did die for nothing. Everyone is already more concerned with Sylvanas that he's essentially already forgotten. He ran, a coward, and thus he'll be forgotten as one, as he should. Which is fine, because I never liked Vol'jin as my warchief, anyway. Good riddance.

Ya be trollin pretty hard mon
I nominate ya ta be da troll racial leader 2016
Make da darkspear great again mon

[Lady Dragonheart]

vol'jin died saving his faction and all of azeroth. Varian died, because he chose to, and didn't save a single person. only varian died for nothing. Saying any different is nothing but a lie.

Do you have any proof beside a narrative: "We're the main characters, therefore we're going to win no matter what" mentality?

[beanman12345]

Do you have any proof beside a narrative: "We're the main characters, therefore we're going to win no matter what" mentality?

my proof is this is a video game. in video games the main character always wins.

[Jotaux]

No, you do not. Running away is not winning. You may win, eventually, maybe, down the line, but you still lost and you still look cowardly for running away. There is no honor is fleeing from a fight because you are too weak to win. You can make excuses as much as you want. Choosing not to fight when opposed is cowardly.

Running away leads to winning. The saying is victory or death, and we made the choices that lead to victory. It would have been cowardly to stay and doom all of Azeroth for our own sense of pride, too afraid of looking bad.

[Lady Dragonheart]

my proof is this is a video game. in video games the main character always wins.

So, in other words, you have no real proof of your point besides you "feelings." Real original.

[Jotaux]

Do you have any proof beside a narrative: "We're the main characters, therefore we're going to win no matter what" mentality?

We are not going to win no matter what, we are going to win because of the decision to retreat.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Vol'jin didn't run. He only told Sylvanas to "Not let the Horde die here today".

Sylvansa and the Horde were under extreme pressure up on the ridge. If you play from the Horde side it's way more evident than the cinematic shows - the mobs are much more and they keep coming - tons of them. While I don't blame Varian, he did fuck around a bit too long with making remarks to Gul'dan, all while the Horde were getting their asses handed to them and losing men left and right. Sylvanas even tells Varian to - "Stop talking and get it done!". She knew she couldn't hold it for very much longer.

They were losing men because they were weak. Weaklings run. So, it all comes full-circle.