[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Keiyra]

This is a very poor assumption for the vast majority of cases. If you play it right you always pool astral power for the next pull. The only time this aint possible is on the very first pack in the dungeon, and when you die.

Sure, every first pack, every time after a wipe, or an AFK, or a DC of the tank or healer, or the start of any raid boss.

Pooling absolutely does help, and will be required to be remotely decent - but group speed or delays are not always in your control. Anytime you can't pool sufficiently or chain pull fast enough - you're going to suffer from slow ass ramp up for aoe.


Edit for huths post: Thats a good point, moon moon spells will help cover some of gaps and reduce the frequency of longer ramp up periods. (and im aware you wouldnt use SW for 4 targets, it was just to keep everything in GCDs, but your right, more accurate would have been LS and then doing total cast time)

[huth]

After every long pause, you're also going to have 3 charges of MoonMoon, so your rotation still doesn't match. Especially if you start on Full Moon, in which case you won't cast SW at all(which you wouldn't do anyway with 4 targets).

Just some question for Starfall and Aoe.

So lets say there's like 25 things stacked, and we get to use one Sunfire so everyone is dotted. What's best, to dot everyone up with Moonfire aswell or just spam Lunar Strike and dump Starfall?

LS and Starfall. MF should only be used on small packs and long living adds.

[Birgwow]

On the topic of ramp up time on our aoe: would it be beneficiary to switch to cat form and swipe 3 times for mobs that aren't gonna last that long? Or is the consensus that you only pick the affinity for the perk and very rarely actually use the additional abilities? Talking in the context of (mythic) dungeons and raids here.

[huth]

It's more that the other affinities are generally better than Feral.

[Birgwow]

Assuming you're not gonna take damage then

[Deleted]

Assuming you're not gonna take damage then

Feral affi is totally dead weight for boomkins. You either take guardian, if you get constant dmg or resto, if you dont get constant dmg.

[dexx]

I wish starfall applied moonfire to all targets.

[Frostyfire14]

I wish starfall applied moonfire to all targets.

I think that is a great idea. Would certainly help our ramp up time tremendously, as well as allow us to actually AOE things in time.

[Cyous]

I think that is a great idea. Would certainly help our ramp up time tremendously, as well as allow us to actually AOE things in time.

Ridiculously strong, though.

[Frostyfire14]

Ridiculously strong, though.

Yea I could see where problems would occur.

What if while starfall was active, it allowed moonfire to splash like Sunfire? (Lessens the power a bit)

Like the death knight's new death and decay where it causes one of their single target spells to also cleave while they stand within the death and decay.

[Kharahh]

Yea I could see where problems would occur.

What if while starfall was active, it allowed moonfire to splash like Sunfire? (Lessens the power a bit)

Like the death knight's new death and decay where it causes one of their single target spells to also cleave.

Good luck with blizz implementing that xD how epic would that look though .. next tick of MF after laying down sstarfall, thousands of beams with stars following.. i would shit myself from glee..!

I dont trawl the bnet forums enough, but is the boomkin community loud enough over there to have traction? What have they changed in response to the moans (if any) that have been made?

[Frostyfire14]

Good luck with blizz implementing that xD how epic would that look though .. next tick of MF after laying down sstarfall, thousands of beams with stars following.. i would shit myself from glee..!

I dont trawl the bnet forums enough, but is the boomkin community loud enough over there to have traction? What have they changed in response to the moans (if any) that have been made?

The community has some very smart and hardworking theory crafters that help influence the design of Balance Druids through the bnet forums. However, there are times where problems are posted on the forums/twitter and are obviously present, but are overlooked or ignored.

Cyous can relate.

[Deipotent]

I wish starfall applied moonfire to all targets.

A talent in which starsurge spread moonfire and sunfire to all mobs within your starfall seems reasonable.

It would require you to be close to ASP capped when doing so, and would take about 4gcds, it seems like reasonable damage when DH can fel rush in 2gcds the damage our full dotted starfall would do in 8s

[Frostyfire14]

A talent in which starsurge spread moonfire and sunfire to all mobs within your starfall seems reasonable.

It would require you to be close to ASP capped when doing so, and would take about 4gcds, it seems like reasonable damage when DH can fel rush in 2gcds the damage our full dotted starfall would do in 8s

That certainly helps with spreading moonfire, but that doesn't directly address the issue of the ramp up time that is currently bogging down the power that Balance Druids can potentially bring to a fight.

In your suggestion, it would feel a bit weird to spend AP (Or pool 100 AP just to be on par) on Starsurge to spread dots to then have to earn the AP back to use Starfall to benefit those dots.

Where if while Starfall was active, simply applying sunfire normally to cleave, and then moonfiring 1+ times to clwave moonfire. This fits the class mechanically (Sunfire already spreads - this new Moonfire mechanic wouldn't be foreign to the specialization.)

[Lucrece]

Lunar Strike should spread moonfire to targets within 5 yards, and the talent that increase sunfire spread range should also increase lunar strike's cleave/spread range. Reduce starfall cost to 40 asp. Would probably go a long way to put balance on competitive aoe terms.

[Deipotent]

We're done being the burst dps, that died with mushrooms.

Maybe a talent that made lunar strike do 50% of it's corresponding dot's damage to targets not directly stuck by the spell. Compounded with a talent that spread dots within starfall hit by starsurge, we could see insane consistent add damage. This would also not affect single target at all.

In reality, when in comes to mythic raiding (and let's be real, that's what actually matters. If you're min/maxing for dungeons, well, idk wtf you're doing), we'll be fine. Raid now is just 15s b.s. fights. We forget that progression raiding allows for adds to live and all the best parts of moonkins to shine. I've seen a 5-10% increase in single target from the changes so far and if we end up being the single target champs, I'm okay with that. Every class has it's place.

[Dragontoth]

We're done being the burst dps, that died with mushrooms.

Maybe a talent that made lunar strike do 50% of it's corresponding dot's damage to targets not directly stuck by the spell. Compounded with a talent that spread dots within starfall hit by starsurge, we could see insane consistent add damage. This would also not affect single target at all.

In reality, when in comes to mythic raiding (and let's be real, that's what actually matters. If you're min/maxing for dungeons, well, idk wtf you're doing), we'll be fine. Raid now is just 15s b.s. fights. We forget that progression raiding allows for adds to live and all the best parts of moonkins to shine. I've seen a 5-10% increase in single target from the changes so far and if we end up being the single target champs, I'm okay with that. Every class has it's place.

As it looks right now we are good in ST and cleave, we can be decent in burst AoE but for that we have to spec into FoE which just hurts, but there is nothing wrong beeing good in 2/3 of the categories. We wont get stacked like ArcaneMage/SubRogue in HfC, but we bring enough to the raid to earn our spot and have an unique utility spell in Innervate, aswell as good mobility.

[dexx]

A talent in which starsurge spread moonfire and sunfire to all mobs within your starfall seems reasonable.

Like a blood DK using blood boil to spread diseases. Its a nice mechanic.

[Deipotent]

Like a blood DK using blood boil to spread diseases. Its a nice mechanic.

Tank damage is negligent. They could do 5x more than a dps, a doesn't matter. As long as tank damage is relative and dps damage is relative, it's all good.

I hate seeing tanks beat me in dungeons but I understand that because of threat mechanics in current meta, they need this damage. It is not necessarily constructive damage, but it needs to be there to hold threat. Just as druids, as a general class, are very generally aoe damage. When we do damage it is not a very single target + splash. When we do AoE damage, it's hard to control. We are a highly min/max class and we need to accept it.

[thilicen]

So, treants or starlord? That's the one I'm stuck at atm.