Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Upon further discussion I have decided to stop making orcs the bad guys. Thank you for your patients in the matter.


That's what you expected to happen right?

[beanman12345]

So, in other words, you have no real proof of your point besides you "feelings." Real original.

ok have fun with your trolling. i'm out.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Running away leads to winning. The saying is victory or death, and we made the choices that lead to victory. It would have been cowardly to stay and doom all of Azeroth for our own sense of pride, too afraid of looking bad.

So you say, but that doesn't excuse their weakness or the fact that they turned tail like wimps and ran for their lives at the superior strength of the Legion. It is still cowardly, narrative or not, it was a pathetic attack. It's still meek and cowardly.

[Jotaux]

So you say, but that doesn't excuse their weakness or the fact that they turned tail like wimps and ran for their lives at the superior strength of the Legion. It is still cowardly, narrative or not, it was a pathetic attack. It's still meek and cowardly.

It was not for their own lives but for Azeroth.

[Heladys]

Stop being the bad guys, you won't be the bad guys.

[DrStiglit]

I've played horde for most of my wow career. I would have agreed with you until I did the broken shore on the alliance side. Now I'm just like fuck the horde.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Again, you're just being deliberately obtuse with this. I'd like to have an actual discussion with you regarding the events, but if you're just going to fling "I wanna trigger you" comments around, do so with someone else.

What are you talking about? How am I "being obtuse" exactly. It is cowardly to run from battle, end of story. Making excuses means nothing for the fact that it happened. That is my point. Saying that I'm "triggering you" is beyond the point and an excuse for you present a proper point yourself. So, tell me, do you actually have a point other than your own opinion?

[Deleted]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Edit: i think i did mistake by touching too much subjects in one post, just wanted to say that fighting forces like Scourge/Lich King/Scarlet Crusade is much more fun than fighting Orc npcs like Garrosh kor'krons/Iron Horde. Apologies



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Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

But Orcs getting alot of the hate.

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...urning-crusade User Score 7.8
Generally favorable reviews based on 749 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...-the-lich-king User Score 7.4
Mixed or average reviews based on 874 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...raft-cataclysm User Score 5.5 Mixed or average reviews based on 916 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...rds-of-draenor 5.9 Mixed or average reviews based on 1078 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria 4.8 Generally unfavorable reviews based on 1226 Ratings

Some gameplay improvments like Toys Tab,Cross-faction Auction House, Cross-Battlegroup Arena was great and made Arena/Random bg queues faster but Lorewise and storyline wise WOTLK Raids and Quest chains was better.

I agree Wotlk and TBC were good expansions, as someone whose played 11 years of WoW since Vanila. And don't use wowwiki for lore, Wowpedia Is the place for good accurate lore. Wowwiki's outdated and isn't even trying.

Other then those nitpicks I agree, fighting a badass enemy like a fucking Lich King, or Illidan or the Legion Itself (As Illidan wasn't the reason we went to Outland In the firstplace, but to stop the Legion from gaining a foothold there to attack Azeroth from since their last one failed), even the Scarlets although I liked what they could've been without corruption Is a good thing, fighting against eachother... well, Garrosh could've been a great character, a hero of the Horde, a Warrior, strenght, honour and valor... what Thrall wasn't mostly, and Garrosh did that whole Stonetalon thing, I think after they did that Blizz were like "Hold on... let's make him a big bad guy, not a good guy" which Is saaaaaaaaaaaaad... (Orc bias, hi), that's all.

[Lady Dragonheart]

We are not going to win no matter what, we are going to win because of the decision to retreat.

That doesn't make it any less cowardly or any less pathetic.

[Jotaux]

That doesn't make it any less cowardly or any less pathetic.

It takes real courage to do what it takes to win even at the expense of looking bad.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I've played horde for most of my wow career. I would have agreed with you until I did the broken shore on the alliance side. Now I'm just like fuck the horde.

The differences between Horde and Alliance is depreciating with every expansion. in all seriousness. So, it won't even matter which side your on anymore, as you'll have no identity as such.

[Supernoodles]

First of thing all my chars are alliance but then again I'm not huge into lore etc so I mainly chose my faction based on the models/animations plus my friends played alliance at the time and I'm too cheap to faction change every class.

But the one thing I hated about the whole broken shore cinematics and story is the fact that BOTH sides see Wrynn die but only the horde side sees what happens with Vol'jin.. meanwhile Jaina is all high and mighty calling the horde cowards for leaving them at the broken shore and refusing to let them into Dalaran etc meanwhile Vol'jin and the rest of his forces were about to be made the legions bitches so Sylvanas had to fall back to help.

[Demsi]

Orc lives matter! Dey dindu nuffin, dey good boys

[Koreche]

i.. i dont even know god as where the fuck to start....
in wrath orcs wrere bad guys aswel, look at how horrible garrosh was, and we did fight a few orc deaht knights... but yeah orcs where the bad guys for wod, and the end of mop... so what... they were the bag guys in BC for alot of it, all of HFP, including 3 dungeons and 1 raid, you seem to love making the orcs seem to be the good guys, by ignoring all the bad they did

massacred dranei because the legion told them so
invaded a planet and slaughtered their people
forsake the elements, manipulating them and turning to warlock-ism....
worked with their own people to destroy their own planet


yes the orcs are not super evil, but they have done alot of fucked up shit in their lives.... and they are bloodthirsty by nature...

and overall the horde is just the right out more evil faction

goblins only out to make a profit
orcs bloodthirsty and warmongering from the demonblood in their bodies
blood elves selfish and snobby
tauren are rather fine
trolls are abit iffy... they do go into the dark arts but are rather peaceful themselves...
undead monsters of nature, murdering and experimenting on life itself....


meanwhile

humans trying to defend and keep their people and honour intact
night elves trying to keep the nature healthy and fruitful
draenei just trying to find a place to live long enough to build a force to counter the legion
gnomes are techies, who yeah do cause some issues... but overall doing their best
worgens who are assholes who locked themselves away from the first war...
dwarves who simply want to protect the earth and their people

and pandaren just want to protect their home, and look how that turned out, the alliance ones are fine, well the horde one got beat to near death.... from his own faction....

does that mean horde is evil alliance good? no, both have done questionable things...

but overall the horde is the worse of the two...

ugh
Goblins are greedy and i guess you can see that as evil if you look at humans IRL but they seem to be too stupid to actually be evil like humans IRL. They dont manipulate and monopolize enough.
being selfish and snobby is hardly evil...
The dark spear are not evil at all they dont do the dark stuff other tribes do.

humans are not some nice honorable race that is just trying to defend itself or did you forget what onyxia did without much effort. all she did was pretend to be a noble and caused a shit storm that ended with varians wife being killed and a war between the defias and stormwind.
Humans made up the bulk of the cult of the damned and experiment on life just like the undead. The worgen and undead are basically just humans that had a worse life.

You can say gnomes are techies that cause problems but its ok cause they are doing their best?? Pollution isnt ok just because they are trying their best... but it doesnt mean they are evil but as a race they are about as shitty as humans IRL which is pretty shitty.
worgen are humans and i already showed examples of humans not really being a race just trying to defend itself. I mean if you can say the goblins are evil because they are greedy or the blood elves are evil because they are arrogant... i think you can say leaving everyone to die outside your wall is pretty selfish and therefore evil?
Dwarves simply want to protect the earth and their people. So they dig and dig and dig and unearth bad shit and instead of stopping they dig more and unearth more bad shit until ragnaros explodes half of the eastern kingdoms.

horde is barbaric not evil... except maybe some orcs, undead and humans.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It takes real courage to do what it takes to win even at the expense of looking bad.

You're assuming that this is a victory. Let me fill you in: It is not.

[lockybalboa]

There is a stereotype for sure, Hordies always creating a mess, and Alliance playing the good guys(suckers)and cleaning up their mess, and everyone calls for love and peace at the end. All is eventually forgotten and forgiven. Non-stereotypes like Jaina who refuse to forget and conform receive all the flak from horde players, and are prone to be killed off by Blizz.

[Koreche]

It's not opinions, it's presented in the trailers and in-game. Also, you realize Jaina did the exact same thing, right? Is she and the Alliance cowards in your eyes?

Lady dragonheart is trolling guy.

[Jotaux]

You're assuming that this is a victory. Let me fill you in: It is not.

No, I never said the broken shore was a victory but the choices made in the battle will lead to victory. Did you criticize the military during the Great War too for every retreat?

[Lady Dragonheart]

It's not opinions, it's presented in the trailers and in-game. Also, you realize Jaina did the exact same thing, right? Is she and the Alliance cowards in your eyes?

Absolutely. Why wouldn't they be?

I'm saying that, the Horde, the faction that prides itself on not running from battle, ran from battle. That is just a fact.

[Time Sage]

Started playing a UD and the first quests I did after I exited the starting area were all about killed humans and kill more humans and humans this humans that. As an alliance human your starting quests are : Some kobolds took my candle or we need to eat kill us some chickens or help us get rid of the wolves and the spiders and maybe even some defias.

Horde are evul from the first moment they join the game and it is our duty to remind them that we will never be friends. I urge everyone who reads this to go invasions and gank a horde. They will not know why but you will.

That's just the Forsaken. Even the horde finds the Forsaken morally bankrupt at times. (Which makes it hilarious their leader is now running the whole horde)