Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[ChampionChains]

Considering that the greatest champion of the alliance is why the orcs and legion are on azeroth in the first place is pretty telling.

Look at the defias, the "worst" human faction. Weren't they all the craftsmen who built stormwind, then the nobles kicked them out with no pay for their work, basically tricked them into slave labor. When they tried to fight back and rebel for justice, alliance players go into their home and kill their leader. Then they later go back and kill his daughter when she takes over. Alliance players are hitmen for corrupt nobles and slave masters, simple as that.

How long did the alliance do the bidding of onyxia.

The alliance navy fired on the ship of a neutral faction who were fleeing a natural disaster (goblins of kezzan) without any provocation.

When Thrall tried to flee the alliance and put an entire ocean between them to more or less end the orcs/humans war for good, they chased him across the sea to kill them off for good.

Their most prominent prince slaughtered his own people and led the scourge for years. The entire cult of the damned was alliance citizens.

Garithos, due to racial hatred, tried to send all of kael'thas' forces to their death in an attack on the scourge after he pulled all of his human forces out to retreat. He was the leader of all of lordaerons forces at the point so his actions speak for the alliance, just as garroshs' actions are unfairly attributed to all horde characters even though it was the horde who started and led the offensive against garrosh.

The alliance has more dirt on its hands than the horde, people just assume they're the good guys because tolkiens good guys were humans, dwarves and elves. Anytime there's a fantasy setting, people assume anything not a human, dwarf or elf is the bad guy. Even when the story says otherwise, people can't see past their blinders.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Lady dragonheart is trolling guy.

One, calling others "trolls" isn't a good thing on this forum.

Two, my point is a legitimate one. Running is cowardly and the Horde is built on principles of not running from battle, but did so anyway. Saying that "the Alliance ran away too" isn't a point, it's an excuse. The Alliance is known by the Horde as being the more cowardly faction, yet, they chose to run just as the Alliance would/did.

[Koreche]

There is a stereotype for sure, Hordies always creating a mess, and Alliance playing the good guys(suckers)and cleaning up their mess, and everyone calls for love and peace at the end. And all is eventually forgotten and forgiven. Non-stereotypes like Jaina who refuse to forget and conform receive all the flak from horde players.

i mean the world forgave the night elves for sundering azeroth.
the everybody forgave the dwarves for summoning ragnaros.
the worgen forgave the alliance for not killing all the orcs and the alliance forgave the worgen for telling them to fuck off when arthas was killing everyone.
the pandaren forgave the alliance and horde for bringing the sha out and fucking everything up.

Jaina is just stupid and a hypocrite. Nobody cares that shes mad people are just blinded by their alliance fanboy bias to see she blames the horde for varians death but she isnt even fighting with the alliance at the crucial moment even though she has mass tele.
and genn once again has no place to talk as he was hiding behind a wall for years until he needed help then he ran back to the alliance and acts like he never let a shit ton of his allies die because they didnt kill every orc in existence.

[Dch48]

So, stop making the bad guys out to be the bad guys, gotcha.

Orc is the only race I have never played as and I never will.

[Granyala]

Horde, esp Orcs ARE the bad guys because they are the constant aggressors on a planet that doesn't belong to them.

Yes there are exceptions, on both sides, but Blizzards general writing always depicts the Horde as "troublemakers" that create a mess which the Alliance has to react to.

I agree that it's boring and I wish they would move on to more mature writing and characters.

[Jotaux]

Horde, esp Orcs ARE the bad guys because they are the constant aggressors on a planet that doesn't belong to them.

All land belongs to the Trolls historically which are a Horde race.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I linked another users quote on what the saying means, but you disregarded it, I'm assuming. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

Again, I'll ask, as I did before, where is the proof of this?

Also, this is an opinion, they could have fought on.

Lastly, this doesn't even diffuse the original point, it is still cowardly to run away for you life in a time of war. Even if they ran for seemingly good excuses, they are still excuses for not fighting on.

So, all of my points still stand.

[Time Sage]

Both died, one looking like a retard cause he coulda lived, the other not so much cause he couldn't have, and he saved his entire faction and the entirety of azeroth for having the horde retreat to win the war.

Did you actually WATCH the Alliance Cinematic? Varian choose to fight that Fel Reaver because it was HOLDING ONTO THE AIRSHIP Providing escape for the faction leaders and players. Someone had to take that thing down.

[lockybalboa]

i mean the world forgave the night elves for sundering azeroth.
the everybody forgave the dwarves for summoning ragnaros.
the worgen forgave the alliance for not killing all the orcs and the alliance forgave the worgen for telling them to fuck off when arthas was killing everyone.
the pandaren forgave the alliance and horde for bringing the sha out and fucking everything up.

Jaina is just stupid and a hypocrite. Nobody cares that shes mad people are just blinded by their alliance fanboy bias to see she blames the horde for varians death but she isnt even fighting with the alliance at the crucial moment even though she has mass tele.
and genn once again has no place to talk as he was hiding behind a wall for years until he needed help then he ran back to the alliance and acts like he never let a shit ton of his allies die because they didnt kill every orc in existence.

Hey those old dudes aint part of the alliance ok? I'm talking about recent developments. And why did you leave out Garrosh's atrocities and Theramore? And how is Jaina a hypocrite?

[DarthMonk79]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Edit: i think i did mistake by touching too much subjects in one post, just wanted to say that fighting forces like Scourge/Lich King/Scarlet Crusade is much more fun than fighting Orc npcs like Garrosh kor'krons/Iron Horde. Apologies



_______________________________________________


Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

But Orcs getting alot of the hate.

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...urning-crusade User Score 7.8
Generally favorable reviews based on 749 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...-the-lich-king User Score 7.4
Mixed or average reviews based on 874 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...raft-cataclysm User Score 5.5 Mixed or average reviews based on 916 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...rds-of-draenor 5.9 Mixed or average reviews based on 1078 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria 4.8 Generally unfavorable reviews based on 1226 Ratings

Some gameplay improvments like Toys Tab,Cross-faction Auction House, Cross-Battlegroup Arena was great and made Arena/Random bg queues faster but Lorewise and storyline wise WOTLK Raids and Quest chains was better.

Well first off... Stormwind was sacked by the Horde. When the Burning Legion controlled them they destroyed Stormwind amongst other places. Garona killed the King, they burned the one of the biggest cities and almost destroyed one of the biggest human armies. Yes Highborne were responsible for bringing the Legion to Azeroth the first time. The Orcs though had lost their Shamanistic ways and made a bargain with the Legion to invade Azeroth. Also in just about every form of literature, movies, games.. Orcs are a villain race. You don't see a Orc and think, Oh they're here to be peaceful and happy and hug us. You think, Oh shit, they're here to destroy everything. I play both factions and I find it funny as hell when someone playing the Horde thinks that they should be some peace loving hippie, instead of someone with pride and conquest on mind. The Orcs of Azeroth are to a degree still corrupted by the Legion, I mean your skin is green. Orcs of Draenor had brown skin or gray skin. Also if Orcs were shamanistic wouldn't that mean that the only classes you could play as a Orc would be healer classes, shamans and priests.... I mean because Orcs are so peaceful.. right?

[Dch48]

Absolutely. Why wouldn't they be?

I'm saying that, the Horde, the faction that prides itself on not running from battle, ran from battle. That is just a fact.

They didn't run from battle any more than the Alliance did. Who was there at the end to help Varian? Answer---NOBODY.

Both factions made a strategic withdrawal to avoid certain annihilation. The Alliance just didn't see everything that was happening on the Horde side.

[FelPlague]

ugh
Goblins are greedy and i guess you can see that as evil if you look at humans IRL but they seem to be too stupid to actually be evil like humans IRL. They dont manipulate and monopolize enough.
being selfish and snobby is hardly evil...
The dark spear are not evil at all they dont do the dark stuff other tribes do.

humans are not some nice honorable race that is just trying to defend itself or did you forget what onyxia did without much effort. all she did was pretend to be a noble and caused a shit storm that ended with varians wife being killed and a war between the defias and stormwind.
Humans made up the bulk of the cult of the damned and experiment on life just like the undead. The worgen and undead are basically just humans that had a worse life.

You can say gnomes are techies that cause problems but its ok cause they are doing their best?? Pollution isnt ok just because they are trying their best... but it doesnt mean they are evil but as a race they are about as shitty as humans IRL which is pretty shitty.
worgen are humans and i already showed examples of humans not really being a race just trying to defend itself. I mean if you can say the goblins are evil because they are greedy or the blood elves are evil because they are arrogant... i think you can say leaving everyone to die outside your wall is pretty selfish and therefore evil?
Dwarves simply want to protect the earth and their people. So they dig and dig and dig and unearth bad shit and instead of stopping they dig more and unearth more bad shit until ragnaros explodes half of the eastern kingdoms.

horde is barbaric not evil... except maybe some orcs, undead and humans.

i was talking about goblins being greedy as you can see with how kezan became, it became a rancid mess as they destroyed it with their greed, same with the part of ashenvale, azshara, and ungoro they vist....

i said the blood elves are snobby as they will not help unless they will be directly affected shown as the plague, and the orcs came they did nothing to help till it became a problem for them

mmm the darkspear do have some pretty fucked up stuff, guess you dont know about the trade voljin made for 1000 souls...

yes a black dragon forced two factions against eachother into a riot... tottally as bad as capturing, murdering women and children, and making parents kill eachother infront of their kids....

yes, because the cult of the danmed brain washed them, and well if they had a acsess of anything they woudl take it, but humans where the only thing in the area, the blood elves were off on their own, not coming out of their cities....

undead have become sick and twisted, members of the a new version of the cult of the danmed, without being brain washed
the worgen were a faction of humans who dident want to help, so they hid themself away, 1 of many factions...

they dident mean to cause the polution it was from a malfuction, and they are spending time cleaning it up now... that is the whole point of the gnome starting area and dungeon... cleaning the mess....

yeah thats why i said worgens are dicks....

the dwarves dident acidently awake ragnaros... the dark iron dwarves knew of his location and wanted to summon him, but did not know his power, and welll... yeah they suffered bad for it... and half the eastern kingdoms!? the fuck you talking about? 2 zones.... no where near "half of EK"

[Koreche]

One, calling others "trolls" isn't a good thing on this forum.

Two, my point is a legitimate one. Running is cowardly and the Horde is built on principles of not running from battle, but did so anyway. Saying that "the Alliance ran away too" isn't a point, it's an excuse. The Alliance is known by the Horde as being the more cowardly faction, yet, they chose to run just as the Alliance would/did.

Lol if you are not trolling then i dont even know what to say about you...
Its not cowardly to retreat as people say but you think you know what you are talking about and act like you know shit about war when you dont. Retreating is a tactical decision and in this case the horde had 0 chance of winning it would have been stupid to stay. If you cant grasp that and just keep saying "HErPEDERP its cowardly to not throw away all our lives for a fight we know we have no chance of winning" and thats your only argument you just seem really stubborn.

Also the orcs are built on the principles of not running from battle not the horde. You seem to forget the blood elves were in the alliance at one time, the undead were once the humans of lordaeron, the tauren never say this lok'tar ogar nonsense and do goblins? NOPE. Also go back and play wc1 2 and 3 i guarantee you will see orcs retreat plenty of times.

[ChampionChains]

massacred dranei because the legion told them so
invaded a planet and slaughtered their people
forsake the elements, manipulating them and turning to warlock-ism....
worked with their own people to destroy their own planet

goblins only out to make a profit
orcs bloodthirsty and warmongering from the demonblood in their bodies
blood elves selfish and snobby
tauren are rather fine
trolls are abit iffy... they do go into the dark arts but are rather peaceful themselves...
undead monsters of nature, murdering and experimenting on life itself....

You ever read any of the books? All of the demonic corruption was done by a select few who tricked the remaining orcs into drinking demonic blood. It was the shadow council who manipulated everyone.

Yes, goblins are greedy, always have been. But they're only in the horde because the alliance fired on their ship while they were fleeing a natural disaster, otherwise they'd still be neutral. Orcs took them in after they were attacked for no reason other than "hey, that's not our ship, lets kill those refugees"

Orcs demonic blood corruption was cleansed when grom killed mannoroth back in WC3.

Blood elves are snobbish because they're high elves who have always been dicks. They're only in the horde because garithos (leader of all of lordaerons forces after arthas killed king menethil) decided to send all of kael'thas' forces into a suicide mission while he pulled all humans out to retreat. The alliance abandoned one of their greatest allies due to racial dislike to save their own skins. Orcs saved them from extinction.

Tauren are cool, yeah, probably most noble race in all of wow. Orcs saved them from extinction.

Darkspear trolls are okay, mostly stick to themselves. Orcs saved them from extinction.


Alliance races have done some pretty messed up stuff. Read up on the defias brotherhood and how they were screwed over by the alliance. Read up on mediv, the entire reason the legion and orcs came to azeroth in the first place. read up on arthas.

[beanman12345]

Did you actually WATCH the Alliance Cinematic? Varian choose to fight that Fel Reaver because it was HOLDING ONTO THE AIRSHIP Providing escape for the faction leaders and players. Someone had to take that thing down.

yeah i watched it. you are right something had to take that thing down. too bad they didn't use any sort of magic or cannon power, they relied on a retard doing what a retard does best, being a retard and LEEEEROYYYYYYYY

[Lady Dragonheart]

They didn't run from battle any more than the Alliance did. Who was there at the end to help Varian? Answer---NOBODY.

Both factions made a strategic withdrawal to avoid certain annihilation. The Alliance just didn't see everything that was happening on the Horde side.

I already said that the Alliance acted cowardly as well, try to keep up. At least their king was able to honorably turn back and fight like a true warrior, slaughtering as many over-sized enemies as he could before going down in a blaze of glory. What does our Horde leader do, beg to run away, flee, then die in his comfortable chair at home.

The Alliance acted more like Horde than the Horde did, in other words, they effectively swapped ideologies for that brief battle.

[DarthMonk79]

Never played or mained Orc character, my main is Tauren on Horde, alts are mostly Forsaken, and my Alliance main is Human. Thats why im talking about Tauren vs Orcs conflict.

There is no need to be Orc to respect Orcish lore.

It made sense because when Cairne joined the Horde it was Thrall's Horde. They helped save them against the centaurs and were just building a home. There was honor in Thralls Horde.... Garrosh wanted to bring back the "old horde" ways of conquest. Cairne saw that as wrong, it wasn't what he joined or believed in. Garrosh saw it as going against your leader and threatened one of the Hordes oldest allies. So Cairne being the noble old leader fought what he considered a dishonorable upstart that had a good chance of destroying the Horde instead of leading it. He was smart enough to know that old hatred's still existed and the Horde had lost to a Alliance that was just forming. The alliance forces were now all united and he saw the "death" of the Horde if they continued in their ways. So of course he fought Garrosh, he saw it as a way of saving the Horde. He knew Garrosh wouldn't just step down so he had to take him down. You might want to know more of the Lore and reasonings behind why things have happened the way they do before bashing it.

[FelPlague]

i mean the world forgave the night elves for sundering azeroth.
the everybody forgave the dwarves for summoning ragnaros.
the worgen forgave the alliance for not killing all the orcs and the alliance forgave the worgen for telling them to fuck off when arthas was killing everyone.
the pandaren forgave the alliance and horde for bringing the sha out and fucking everything up.

Jaina is just stupid and a hypocrite. Nobody cares that shes mad people are just blinded by their alliance fanboy bias to see she blames the horde for varians death but she isnt even fighting with the alliance at the crucial moment even though she has mass tele.
and genn once again has no place to talk as he was hiding behind a wall for years until he needed help then he ran back to the alliance and acts like he never let a shit ton of his allies die because they didnt kill every orc in existence.

1. it wasent the night elves, it was the high elves who are now naga... and we dont see them being forgiven...
2. it was the dark iron dwarves, and again we dident see them being forgiven for a LONG time... and even then their people have less freedom them germans...
3. because the worgens were cowards, but they never did anything right out evil...
4. they forgave us cause they are better then us, andk now how to forgive and forget....

5. what the utter fuck kinda idiot are you....

she let the horde kill her father...
she helped the horde get away from archimondes forces during the return of archimonde
she gave baine money from her personal savings to buy a merc force to recapture thunderbluff from the grimtotems
she was a spearhead in the campaign against arthas, helping the horde alot throughout
she decided NOT to destroy orgrimmar with a massive tidal wave

what did she get in return?

father killed
dalaran, a neutral city used for war crimes
the whole of the horde attacking her home city, then nuking it
her best friends husband was killed
her other best friend and apprentice was killed
tons of her home cities people were killed ,tortured, and slaughtered, and slaved
and her good friend thrall made garrosh the warchief allowing allmost all of this to happen...

[ChampionChains]

yeah i watched it. you are right something had to take that thing down. too bad they didn't use any sort of magic or cannon power, they relied on a retard doing what a retard does best, being a retard and LEEEEROYYYYYYYY

Yeah, it's amazing that a massive warship outfitted to fight an arm of demons didn't have any bombs available that they could have dropped.

[Aquinan]

I already said that the Alliance acted cowardly as well, try to keep up. At least their king was able to honorably turn back and fight like a true warrior, slaughtering as many over-sized enemies as he could before going down in a blaze of glory. What does our Horde leader do, beg to run away, flee, then die in his comfortable chair at home.

The Alliance acted more like Horde than the Horde did, in other words, they effectively swapped ideologies for that brief battle.

You obviously have 0 tactical or strategic sense, glad you're not actually in charge of anything..........o shit