"Recycling content" (esp. Kara)

[ItachiZaku]

Your opinion, not one shared by most I suspect.

Blizzard is a modern day software company, they have analytics and surveys and interviews with their customers (you and me) to determine what their majority of paying customers want.

Panda's, WoD, Garrisons and lots of Orcs was exactly what the majority of the customers wanted.

[thelightthatstrays]

Recycled content is fine, but it doesn't replace new content.

I enjoy Timewalking and all the various recycled "updated" dungeons. They're fine. But they simply aren't new. They need to make new content too.

Patch 7.2 needs to come with new 5-man dungeons. Not revamped Blackrock Depths or Serpentshrine Cavern.

I agree. ...and it's not even novel that a raid is being recycled as a dungeon, because that's been done before and frankly it was "meh".

With the time spend raiding Kara in TBC and return trips for farming mounts and pets the announcement of the return offers no excitment.

Also, nine bosses? Good grief, why?

[Farabee]

The only thing WoW makes me nostalgic for right now is the time before I was alive so I didn't have to see what this game was/is turning into.

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Where did they say there would be a new raid? It wasn't in the trailer to my knowledge. If it was, I will resub and donate my life savings to Mike Morhaime.

It was mentioned by Ion in this VOD interview with Fatboss:

https://www.twitch.tv/fatbosstv/v/84480726

From Reddit transcript:

Fatboss: Can you give a brief overview of patch 7.1?
Ion: 3 major pieces, first and foremost return to Karazhan as a mega 5 player dungeon - almost 5 player raid. Next is a small raid tied to Stormheim as well as additional chapters of Suramar - nightfallen etc. We'll see more after Legion launches.

Also, nine bosses? Good grief, why?

From having played beta (without Kara mind you), I can tell you that "5-man progression" is now a thing in Legion. A MAJOR thing. You can get entirely decked out in gear which is just as good as that Mythic raiders can get, just from doing Mythic+ dungeons.

I've seen it already. People who are in almost entirely 880 gear farmed from Mythic+10 or higher, looted from the end-of-week chest which has a cap of as high as the currently available gear is.

This is the next logical step in that path, a legitimate "5-man raid" made for premade groups. I'm sure they'll break it up for the LFG crowd at some point though, but for now, it's nice to have content that gives top gear with difficult mechanics that doesn't need 19 other people.

[lockybalboa]

People are pissed cause it smacks of laziness as well as lack of creativity on Blizz's part.

[TickTickTick]

I will hold my opinion until i play it. We have no idea what bosses will be there, how will it look like, whats the storyline. Judging it now would be unfair. It might come as a complete copy paste, it might come as something totaly new, a location being the only thing in common.

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People are pissed cause it smacks of laziness as well as lack of creativity on Blizz's part.

Lol
'Karazhan the best raid to date, blizz bring it back plz'
>blizz revisits karazhan as a dungeon
'lazy and lacks creativity'

Some people cant by pleased, EVER. Why is it lazy? Why does it lack creativity? Why are you not complaining about Broken Isles, cause we've been there in Warcraft?

Pffft, lazy blizzard. WoW should already be a real life game.

[Deleted]

'Karazhan the best raid to date, blizz bring it back plz'
>blizz revisits karazhan as a dungeon
'lazy and lacks creativity'

They should totally bring back old Tarren Mill and Southshore and Molten Core, fuck yeah, people would flock back to play in masses!

[lockybalboa]

I will hold my opinion until i play it. We have no idea what bosses will be there, how will it look like, whats the storyline. Judging it now would be unfair. It might come as a complete copy paste, it might come as something totaly new, a location being the only thing in common.

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Lol
'Karazhan the best raid to date, blizz bring it back plz'
>blizz revisits karazhan as a dungeon
'lazy and lacks creativity'

Some people cant by pleased, EVER. Why is it lazy? Why does it lack creativity? Why are you not complaining about Broken Isles, cause we've been there in Warcraft?

Pffft, lazy blizzard. WoW should already be a real life game.

Karazhan was an awesome raid but still there's no denying Blizz is being lazy recycling old raids and dungeons. When people praise Karazhan, they mean that they are hoping that Blizz would actually be bothered enough to create new content that rivals the quality of Kara and not reuse old stuff like Kara, troll dungeons, or just add three levels of difficulties to the same dungeons. They are merely trying to minimize production costs and being cheapos.

[glowpipe]

ubrs as a 15 man raid. Bring it back !

[lockybalboa]

And raids/dungeons are not the only stuff that they keep recycling. Character models and mount models are some other stuff that they keep replicating. I have no idea why humans and dwarfs all run like pandarens now. FFS

[Deleted]

Karazhan was an awesome raid but still there's no denying Blizz is being lazy recycling old raids and dungeons. When people praise Karazhan, they mean that they are hoping that Blizz would actually be bothered enough to create new content that rivals the quality of Kara and not reuse old stuff like Kara, troll dungeons, or just add three levels of difficulties to the same dungeons. They are merely trying to minimize production costs and being cheapos.

Because Legion doesn't have any new content? I really don't understand your crazy logic?

[lockybalboa]

Because Legion doesn't have any new content? I really don't understand your crazy logic?

I'm talking about Kara here.

[Mellrod]

Lame and lazy, i.e typical blizz.

Karazhan was an awesome raid but still there's no denying Blizz is being lazy recycling old raids and dungeons. When people praise Karazhan, they mean that they are hoping that Blizz would actually be bothered enough to create new content that rivals the quality of Kara and not reuse old stuff like Kara, troll dungeons, or just add three levels of difficulties to the same dungeons. They are merely trying to minimize production costs and being cheapos.

I never understood the logic that because Blizzard revisits an old location for upcoming content, it makes them lazy. Sure it's the same location and more or less same bosses, but that's where it stops. Each time they've reused an old area for a dungeon, raid, etc. the mechanics of the boss are reworked from the ground up and the design of the instance is changed. Sometimes entire new boss fights are even added, such as the cache of madness. I don't think the modern ZG boss fights are ANYTHING like classic WoW's ZG.

I don't think it's lazy at all so long as they actually do something new and interesting to the content. Blizzard doesn't always have to create a new area for every single scrap of content, especially if the story takes us to an old place. Karazhan and Dalaran both hold great significance in this expansion, and I doubt it's because they wanted to use that as an excuse to bring back Violet Hold or Kara.

Blizzard has given us around 8-11 instances (including raids) on launch and we have even more coming in future patches. That's not "lazy" or "lame" by any stretch of the word.

[TickTickTick]

They should totally bring back old Tarren Mill and Southshore and Molten Core, fuck yeah, people would flock back to play in masses!

Or some people should stop having ultra high expectations or just quit the game they dont enjoy. I dont see anyone asking for bringing back Tarren Mill and Southshore. Well, now that I think about it, there was an event for WoW's 10th birthsday that included Molten Core and TM/SS - I dont remember people complaining about it.

One more advice. People should stop falling into extremes (like you are with this example).

Karazhan was an awesome raid but still there's no denying Blizz is being lazy recycling old raids and dungeons. When people praise Karazhan, they mean that they are hoping that Blizz would actually be bothered enough to create new content that rivals the quality of Kara and not reuse old stuff like Kara, troll dungeons, or just add three levels of difficulties to the same dungeons. They are merely trying to minimize production costs and being cheapos.

Am I talking with Blizzard employee?
There is a problem tho - the community became so spoiled that it doesnt appreciate what is has anymore. These are not the same times as Kara/Ulduar, they wont appreciate good story, good visuals, good mechanics. They will only nitpick and complain. Also worth adding, Kara is mosly revered cause it was the first raid for many people/was the begining of their adventure. What do you expect Blizz to do? Delete your memory so you can be new again?

Recycling content is such a stupid saying, tho. First - Kara raid stays. Second - noone said the bosses will be the same. Third - story will be different. How is it recycling, when you have possibility to come back to the old one? How is it recycling, when everything besides location and name is different?

Lazy architects. Each building in the world should be totaly different, not recycled, lmao. Lazy and lacking creativity.

[Meagree]

Remember, kids, nostalgia is GOOD when you're whining about Blizzard not making vanilla servers, but nostalgia is BAD when you're whining about Blizzard revisiting an old setting.

Remember, kids, there's millions of people playing WoW. There's nuance, people can want different things.

But, of course, that's too complex for you to imagine.

[Aydinx2]

I don't have a problem with them bringing content back, but imo Kara should've come back as a raid, not a 5 man.

It's considerable bigger than any 5 man we have right now. On top of that it'll stay relevant thans to the new mythic+ system and we don't have to bother with making groups of at least 10 people.

It's the best of both worlds.

[lockybalboa]

Or some people should stop having ultra high expectations or just quit the game they dont enjoy. I dont see anyone asking for bringing back Tarren Mill and Southshore. Well, now that I think about it, there was an event for WoW's 10th birthsday that included Molten Core and TM/SS - I dont remember people complaining about it.

One more advice. People should stop falling into extremes (like you are with this example).



Am I talking with Blizzard employee?
There is a problem tho - the community became so spoiled that it doesnt appreciate what is has anymore. These are not the same times as Kara/Ulduar, they wont appreciate good story, good visuals, good mechanics. They will only nitpick and complain. Also worth adding, Kara is mosly revered cause it was the first raid for many people/was the begining of their adventure. What do you expect Blizz to do? Delete your memory so you can be new again?

Recycling content is such a stupid saying, tho. First - Kara raid stays. Second - noone said the bosses will be the same. Third - story will be different. How is it recycling, when you have possibility to come back to the old one? How is it recycling, when everything besides location and name is different?

Lazy architects. Each building in the world should be totaly different, not recycled, lmao. Lazy and lacking creativity.

You sound more like an employee than me lol. Kara raid remaining does not equate to them not recycling stuff. Its still recycling. Back to my point. It is simple.They are just living in their past glories and totally unmotivated to create new concepts and content to rival that of their past achievements. Cost reduction is all they are concerned about now. You claim Kara would be totally different. We shall see about that.

[Deleted]

Where were haters like you when people have spent the past nearly 10 years praising Karazhan as one of, if not the best raid to ever be put in WoW?

Unless, of course, you're talking about Wrath of the Lich King with the completely recycled Naxx, then okay, I agree, but frankly, it made sense and Blizzard wanted more people to experience that raid. I hated Naxx, personally, mainly because I couldn't get in a half-decent guild back then and the aesthetic was nauseatingly disgusting for AN ENTIRE YUUUUGE raid...

Now if they were to recycle Sunwell Plateau?

Oh, please, and can I do the Isle of Quel'Danas dailies again?!

Not even joking.

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Yeah, I don't regret not playing/paying for 90% of WoD's lifespan.

Oh, please, and can I do the Isle of Quel'Danas dailies again?! " Anything blood elf themed would be welcome for me

[Saracens]

I like the word, remastered. It comes to mind with some of Blizzards choices.

[Twistedelmo]

I don't have a problem with them bringing content back, but imo Kara should've come back as a raid, not a 5 man.

The fact that it's a longer dungeon redeems it as it would of been terrible if they broke it up into wings. It's gonna be like Start and BRD back in the day.

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Oh, please, and can I do the Isle of Quel'Danas dailies again?! " Anything blood elf themed would be welcome for me

Sunwell and MGT would of been good too as they are also legion themed Instances.

[Deleted]

Or some people should stop having ultra high expectations or just quit the game they dont enjoy. I dont see anyone asking for bringing back Tarren Mill and Southshore. Well, now that I think about it, there was an event for WoW's 10th birthsday that included Molten Core and TM/SS - I dont remember people complaining about it.

People hated them.
Just goes to show that the people demanding 'original experience' are wrong. So why not re-make them into something new?