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  1. #1

    Boss promised me to be able to use pto when i put in my two weeks, now i get nothing.

    So I decided to leave my current employer because i didn't want to work in this field anymore. simple as that. Pretty good worker for 6 months, showed up late once, picked up a lot of shifts.

    I made the call and told my boss about my two weeks notice. Then, without even bringing this up on my own, he then began to tell me i'd have to work another 2 weeks to use the remainder of my PTO, which he then stated i had at least a well over a week left. I said hey thats great, what a nice company.

    This is today, 1 week of not working there anymore. I go in to grab one of my last pay checks today, and asked about how the pto will work out (which i found out was 80+hours), and he basically said i don't get any unless i start working there again.

    Now the state of PA said if an employer promises PTO to be paid out, they have to. But i have no proof other than word of mouth between the two of us and my friend who listened in on the conversation.

    Any legal aficionados have any advice? other than to cut my losses and grab a beer? Or go work in pure hell for another month?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    This is why you need too get that kind of stuff in writing. You are sol.

  3. #3
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowHopper View Post
    So I decided to leave my current employer because i didn't want to work in this field anymore. simple as that. Pretty good worker for 6 months, showed up late once, picked up a lot of shifts.

    I made the call and told my boss about my two weeks notice. Then, without even bringing this up on my own, he then began to tell me i'd have to work another 2 weeks to use the remainder of my PTO, which he then stated i had at least a well over a week left. I said hey thats great, what a nice company.

    This is today, 1 week of not working there anymore. I go in to grab one of my last pay checks today, and asked about how the pto will work out (which i found out was 80+hours), and he basically said i don't get any unless i start working there again.

    Now the state of PA said if an employer promises PTO to be paid out, they have to. But i have no proof other than word of mouth between the two of us and my friend who listened in on the conversation.

    Any legal aficionados have any advice? other than to cut my losses and grab a beer? Or go work in pure hell for another month?
    Is there a record of your PTO? Because AFAIK they have to pay you out, those hours are already logged for you.

    Of course, you should have gotten it in writing for there to be any legal recourse.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Is there a record of your PTO? Because AFAIK they have to pay you out, those hours are already logged for you.

    Of course, you should have gotten it in writing for there to be any legal recourse.
    actually yes, i have a pay stub with my pto ballance on it.

  5. #5
    Check your employee handbook because most companies have this type of information in writing there. If they say they pay it out then report them to the Labor Department. You don't have prove they owe it to you. They have to prove to the State Labor Department they don't. Call HR for that company -after- you report it.

  6. #6
    Usually any accrued vacation pay and banked hours have to be paid out when you leave.

  7. #7
    Damn, they gave you 2 weeks of PTO after working there only 6 months... You should stick around.

  8. #8
    PA state law (as well as many other states) says that unless the employer agrees to do it, they don't have to. It's simply considered a fringe benefit in these states.

  9. #9
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowHopper View Post
    actually yes, i have a pay stub with my pto ballance on it.
    Then you have leverage and should pursue it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Is there a record of your PTO? Because AFAIK they have to pay you out, those hours are already logged for you.

    Of course, you should have gotten it in writing for there to be any legal recourse.
    Check your local laws, and your employee handbook. Some states say unless it's specifically stated in writing you are not entitled to paid time off or sick time when you leave, which was surprising to me.

  11. #11
    I think it depends a lot on the state, so there may be no good generic advice here. In most cases it should be straightforward whether they owe you the money or not.

    I would tell them you're going to file a complaint with the state labor-relations board (or equivalent) which is almost always enough to get them to deal with it promptly as there are usually a lot of hassles for them if you actually file a complaint and they should know that they will lose immediately (unless you're wrong about whether they owe you).

    If it's a non-trivial sized company then this will all be dealt with my some HR/legal people above your boss, and your boss will likely get in trouble if they have to deal with it, which is further motivation.

    Also avoiding an actual claim will keep you out of any "databases of whiners who file claims/lawsuits against their employers" depending on your state's privacy rules surrounding such complaints. Actions like lawsuits are definitely searchable and can show up on background checks which could turn off a potential future employer.

    Be sure that what you call "PTO" is actually a category of leave that's covered by your state's laws the way "vacation" usually is. You may want to consult a lawyer.

    You'll have to decide whether the amount / annoyance is enough to justify any potential hassle / costs.

    But usually employers withholding pay or other owed benefits is something the state can help you out with as they just don't take that shit from companies.

    IANAL and this is not legal advice of course

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Is there a record of your PTO? Because AFAIK they have to pay you out, those hours are already logged for you.

    Of course, you should have gotten it in writing for there to be any legal recourse.
    In most places they don't and won't. PTO and bonuses are ofter abandoned when you get ready to leave. It is part of the reason many people just quit without warning. In some industries they terminate you ase soon as you give notice. It comes down to the rights of your state and what you do.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapadons View Post
    Damn, they gave you 2 weeks of PTO after working there only 6 months... You should stick around.
    That's what I was thinking...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  14. #14
    Where exactly are you located? Because different countries will have different rules?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    In most places they don't and won't. PTO and bonuses are ofter abandoned when you get ready to leave. It is part of the reason many people just quit without warning. In some industries they terminate you ase soon as you give notice. It comes down to the rights of your state and what you do.
    No offense, but this is pure nonsense.

    There isn't a company in the USA that doesn't pay out Vacation time once a person puts in his two weeks. They have the right to terminate you if you put in your two weeks, but all companies pay out paid vacation time if it's not been used. This isn't even a thing.. it's just the way it is.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Lady Dragonheart's Avatar
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    Unless you have some sort of proof of it, you can be denied it. They can only withhold it if it was never granted to you in the first place (on official records). If your employer promised you a PTO, then there should be a physical record of it... if there is not, then you were had by a con of an employer. However, that is how it is, sometimes. If it was just "your employer's word" against yours, it is very likely that your employer will win that in an audit or the courtroom.
    I am both the Lady of Dusk, Vheliana Nightwing & Dark Priestess of Lust, Loreleî Legace!
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeline10 View Post
    No offense, but this is pure nonsense.

    There isn't a company in the USA that doesn't pay out Vacation time once a person puts in his two weeks. They have the right to terminate you if you put in your two weeks, but all companies pay out paid vacation time if it's not been used. This isn't even a thing.. it's just the way it is.
    Plenty do, hell if you were right we wouldn't have this thread. It all comes down to what the state allows them to do and to some degree the company in general.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #18
    It all centers around whether or not your PTO days are classified as wages.

    In the US we have the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act which states that employers do not have to pay for time not worked therefore your PTO days at not considered wages.

    Individual States, however, may classify PTO differently.

    If State laws regard PTO days as wages earned then you might have a case.

    If State laws regard PTO days as wages accrued then you probably have no case.

    But in addition to that there may be caveats regarding termination and separation which can invalidate your PTO days.

    Basically States try to protect both employee from having their PTO days promised but not paid out while also protecting employer from having an employee quit and then demand their PTO days be paid after the fact.

    Go to your States Department of Labor website.

    Oh and as others have said, if you have no documentation of this ...you are out of luck and shouldn't waste your time.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feeline10 View Post
    No offense, but this is pure nonsense.

    There isn't a company in the USA that doesn't pay out Vacation time once a person puts in his two weeks. They have the right to terminate you if you put in your two weeks, but all companies pay out paid vacation time if it's not been used. This isn't even a thing.. it's just the way it is.
    The FLSA doesn't require employers to pay out unused PTO/vacation time. Now, if you have a record of the unpaid PTO, and a copy of your signed contract (or company policy manuals or related documents) that states that they do pay out PTO, then and only then can you be reasonably expected to get paid for left over PTO.

    Different states might have laws, but there certainly isn't a federal law for this. For example, my state:
    You only have a right to be paid your accrued vacation time if there is a company policy (usually in the handbook) or a union contract that says workers will be paid accrued vacation time when they leave.
    Google: "<your state> final paycheck laws PTO" or something similar to get the lowdown on when and if they have to pay out vacation.

  20. #20
    Also if you're thinking of leaving a job and there's any question of what they owe you etc. you should take the time off before you quit. You won't get extra money but a couple days off might be better than nothing. Especially for stuff like "Personal Time Off" which is often not not the same as Vacation but might be a special category (that also counts against your Sick Leave) as a way to account for personal issues which people might ordinarily lie about and take sick time. Sick Leave is usually not a paid benefit if it's distinct from vacation, so it's not something they owe you when you quit.

    For example in California public schools, it's typical for teachers to get like (say) five days of sick leave and two days of "Personal Necessity" leave or something like that. But when you use a day of Personal Necessity, it also reduces your available Sick Leave by a day, so really it's just a way of saying "you can use up to two days of your sick time without actually being sick".

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