Arms Legion Discussion

[thatmikeguy]

Well I haven't played 110 pvp on warrior, but right now nothing can be balanced because its just the pre-patch. Why the made it 3 weeks long, though... not entirely sure.

This is true, Arms on live atm is not the same play as a pre-made 110 pvp realm full artifact toon hitting the class hall training dummies. I'm going Arms anyways because I like how it plays much better than Fury. I believe there will be many more balance changes as we go, because of how powerful artifact and legendary items are. PvP is it's own animal now, they will just adjust it as they see the overall numbers.

On live I can do much more damage as Fury on a dummy. I tested both Fury and Arms on the beta dummy with full artifact, and they were almost the same single target.

[Anuibus]

with your test u should get exactly the same amount of procs with or without dauntless. 125 procs means that u spent 19,2 k base rage. (125/0,65 %), 20 k baserage would yield 130 procs on average, so i think everything is ok with dauntless? And simcraft gets lower value compared to overpower for dauntless because u rage cap by casting only slam. Did you make sure that your simcraft not using overpower, and had it the same amount of slam casts, so the sim endes after like 5 k slams not after x amount of time?

Rage capping doesn't matter when testing only tactician procs, only rage spent. Not that it was capping anyway, since the sim was waiting 23.39% of the time while using dauntless.

In the sim I did, it was a 600 second duration fight with 50k iterations. Slam was casted 339 times using dauntless and 271 times using overpower as the talent of choice. Again note that only slam was used, so it was effectively testing dauntless vs nothing. The 2 builds had within .1 procs of each other, despite an additional 68 slams being casted when using dauntless. Dauntless should've had ~44.07 procs, whereas nothing should've yielded ~35.23. Instead they were both at 35.3/35.4.

Tactician does still go by the base rage cost of an ability, but simc seems to only be going by rage spent, rather than the base rage cost. This devalues dauntless by a lot. You can try it yourself. Just change the action priority list to only be what follows.

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/run_action_list,name=single

actions.single=slam

[ReD-EyeD]

I just simmed Dauntless Slam test too and have exact same results as you are. Honestly, I expect Dauntless to be on part with Overpower on proper sim if not higher.

[Warriorsarri]

Just a quick thing. Execute is not worth using. That was all.

(This is obviously with my latest sim results, things may change, and most likely will change, that's just how things are right now at this moment)

[Phanuel]

Just a quick thing. Execute is not worth using. That was all.

(This is obviously with my latest sim results, things may change, and most likely will change, that's just how things are right now at this moment)

So I can take it off my bars and replace it with a Hamstring/FR/CS macro?! Yei!

[Tellof]

Just a quick thing. Execute is not worth using. That was all.

(This is obviously with my latest sim results, things may change, and most likely will change, that's just how things are right now at this moment)

Even at 110?
That's a deal breaker for me... Execute is one of my favorite Warrior Abilities. I hope they do set things straight.

[Artunias]

Just a quick thing. Execute is not worth using. That was all.

(This is obviously with my latest sim results, things may change, and most likely will change, that's just how things are right now at this moment)

LOL, seriously? So fury can't use it without Juggernaut stacks and Arms just doesn't use it.

This. Is. Impressive.

[Phanuel]

What am I dumping rage into though?

Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
10 162% 0.162 Execute
20 210% 0.105 Slam
15 164% 0.109 Focus Rage
25 183% 0.073 WW
25 238% 0.095 WW FoB
20 327% 0.164 MS
10 375% 0.375 Overpower

[ReD-EyeD]

What am I dumping rage into though?

Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
10 162% 0.162 Execute
20 210% 0.105 Slam
15 164% 0.109 Focus Rage
25 183% 0.073 WW
25 238% 0.095 WW FoB
20 327% 0.164 MS
10 375% 0.375 Overpower

MS is more rage per damage than Execute lol

[Tellof]

What am I dumping rage into though?

Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
10 162% 0.162 Execute
20 210% 0.105 Slam
15 164% 0.109 Focus Rage
25 183% 0.073 WW
25 238% 0.095 WW FoB
20 327% 0.164 MS
10 375% 0.375 Overpower

Execute isn't meant to be used at 10 rage, it's supposed to be 40 to get the full power of the hit inside colossus smash.

[Teaon]

can someone post these issues in US class beta, i feel that we are talking to a wall here.


makes my heart ache that its worthless to use execute at 20%, i mean, its our fantasy ability right :/?

[Valy]

Rofl no execut now? omg Build FR is Cancer, plz delete/rework this fucking talent !

War Arms build FR => "no need" a "real" filler, no need use execut, and hardspam a control spell to up dps wtf?! it's Warrior spe srsly?! or a fucking bullshit 13th Class #sarcasm

Blizz create many class #cool, but their work on "old" class is sometimes very crappy...

/angry

[Anuibus]

What am I dumping rage into though?

Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
10 162% 0.162 Execute
40 648% 0.162 Full Execute
20 226% 0.113 Slam
20 271% 0.136 Slam + Trauma
15 164% 0.109 Focus Rage
25 183% 0.073 WW
25 220% 0.088 WW + Trauma
25 238% 0.095 WW FoB
25 286% 0.114 WW FoB + Trauma
20 327% 0.164 MS
10 375% 0.375 Overpower

Slams does 226% weapon damage, changed it for you.

W/Dauntless
Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
08 162% 0.202 Execute
32 648% 0.202 Full Execute
16 226% 0.141 Slam
16 271% 0.169 Slam + Trauma
12 164% 0.137 Focus Rage
20 183% 0.092 WW
20 220% 0.110 WW + Trauma
20 238% 0.119 WW FoB
20 286% 0.143 WW FoB + Trauma
16 327% 0.204 MS

Artifact buffed w/Dauntless
16 260% 0.163 Slam
16 312% 0.195 Slam + Trauma
20 210% 0.105 WW
20 252% 0.126 WW + Trauma
20 273% 0.137 WW FoB
20 328% 0.164 WW FoB + Trauma
16 376% 0.235 MS

16 489% 0.306 MS + Shattered Defenses
52 1,223% 0.235 MS + Shattered Defenses + FRx3
08 211% 0.263 Execute + Shattered Defenses
32 842% 0.263 Full Rage Execute + Shattered Defenses
09 489% 0.543 MS + Shattered Defenses + Precise Strikes
45 1,223% 0.271 MS + Shattered Defenses + Precise Strikes + FRx3
05 211% 0.422 Execute + Shattered Defenses + Precise Strikes
18 842% 0.468 Full Rage Execute + Shattered Defenses + Precise Strikes

[Hashcrypt]

I can't see Arms lasting much longer in its current state.

The FR spam and poor damage of our iconic abilities has to be adjusted imo.

[Deleted]

Just a quick thing. Execute is not worth using. That was all.

(This is obviously with my latest sim results, things may change, and most likely will change, that's just how things are right now at this moment)

If this goes live that's an enormous design flaw

[volgon]

Keep in mind that MS, Slam and Whirlwind also get flat 15% damage buffs via artifact traits, bringing their base values up to 376%, 260%, and 211% respectively. Execute gets no such flat bonus, receiving +15% crit chance instead. Once you factor in Trauma and FoB, Slam becomes 312% weapon damage and WW 328%.

[Holofernes]

Rage capping doesn't matter when testing only tactician procs, only rage spent. Not that it was capping anyway, since the sim was waiting 23.39% of the time while using dauntless.

In the sim I did, it was a 600 second duration fight with 50k iterations. Slam was casted 339 times using dauntless and 271 times using overpower as the talent of choice. Again note that only slam was used, so it was effectively testing dauntless vs nothing. The 2 builds had within .1 procs of each other, despite an additional 68 slams being casted when using dauntless. Dauntless should've had ~44.07 procs, whereas nothing should've yielded ~35.23. Instead they were both at 35.3/35.4.

Tactician does still go by the base rage cost of an ability, but simc seems to only be going by rage spent, rather than the base rage cost. This devalues dauntless by a lot. You can try it yourself. Just change the action priority list to only be what follows.

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/run_action_list,name=single

actions.single=slam

well its only the sim thats using a wrong formula than, so nvm. i initially read you as u had discovered that behaviour ingame.

- - - Updated - - -

from the number in the tables postet above fr has a lower dpr than execute? so only ms beats execute in dpr, meaning that execute would be used if ms is on cooldown during cs window?
from how i understand these dpr numbers postet, execute simply exchanges fr in execute phase?

[CollisionTD]

Failing to spend rage is irrelevant as far as tactician resets are concerned. Over the course of 50 minutes on a dummy, I spent 16,000 rage including dauntless (20,000 base rage) and was able to proc tactician 125 times. Rage capping in that scenario really means nothing, as not spending rage won't proc tactician. The whole purpose of that test was to prove that dauntless still goes by the base rage value of the ability, and for that the only thing that matters is how much rage you spend and how many times tactician procs as a result.

Then I simmed a 10 minute fight casting only slam to prove that simc was incorrectly going by the reduced cost of the ability as opposed to the base cost, devaluing dauntless.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...ge=26#post-505

Life was so much easier before I saw this.

https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...9073d7772d38a1

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D

top download will fix this. A lot of things had to be moved around to make it function, as blizz must be using some mad hacks to get it to work on their end.

[Phanuel]

Yeah, I'd still use execute since the DpR is still over everything else that doesn't have a CD. And if I was under DC then I'd also be mashing FR.

But I haven't really played the class in 2 years so I'm probably missing something here.

[Archimtiros]

Dauntless has been fixed in SimC.

Edit: Col beat me to it, breaking his self-imposed exile from MMO-C.