EpiPen 400% Price Hike - CEO received 671% raise.

[Justpassing]

I can't judge really, if I was the CEO I'd do the same given the opportunity, so.

[Tinykong]

Well, switch it to countries that provide free healthcare to its citizens.

No such thing as a free lunch, even if we had socialized health care, the EpiPen price would just be spread across all the tax payers.

[tumppu]

So they took advantage of a monopoly, basically. Is it ethical? No. Is it smart from a business point of view? Yes in the short term, not in the long.

[Kayzza]

Well, switch it to countries that provide free healthcare to its citizens.

Free healthcare does not equal good healthcare. Not to mention "free healthcare" usually means you aren't covered for everything.
The Dutch don't have free healthcare but their system is by far the best in Europe. telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/11384780/Netherlands-tops-health-care-rankings-with-UK-in-14th-place .html

[Kasierith]

Well, switch it to countries that provide free healthcare to its citizens.

Ultimately, one of the biggest (justified) reasons why drug prices are so high in the US is that it is the absolute center of drug development in the world. Research in Europe doesn't even come close beyond a theoretical level. Drug trials are insanely expensive, and combined with the fact that only about 1 in 10 drugs that start on human populations actually reach the market, means that there is a lot of money thrown in. So it really does suck, but the expensive nature of newer drugs is what helps produce the next line of new medications. Whereas in European markets, the margins aren't there to support research, and so they don't do it to nearly the same extent.

[Azadina]

No such thing as a free lunch, even if we had socialized health care, the EpiPen price would just be spread across all the tax payers.

You mean like it is now in the form of both tax and insurance companies profit margins? The more expensive version with more greedy hands in the middle, instead of just tax.

[I Push Buttons]

No such thing as a free lunch, even if we had socialized health care, the EpiPen price would just be spread across all the tax payers.

And the government could tell this company to fuck off and threaten to go to some generic.

Do you think the price would remain if they would lose THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES as a customer...? I doubt it.

It doesn't work like that now because some hospitals take it, some leave it, some insurance take it, some leave it, so long as they keep more than 25% of the business they previously had they make more money than they did previously... And that is literally all that matters, the bottom line.

[JohnBrown1917]

Free healthcare does not equal good healthcare. Not to mention "free healthcare" usually means you aren't covered for everything.
The Dutch don't have free healthcare but their system is by far the best in Europe. telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/11384780/Netherlands-tops-health-care-rankings-with-UK-in-14th-place .html

Insurance is cheap, and almost free for the poor, here though.

[TrumpIsPresident]

I heard shes a Democrat and that her father is a Democrat Senator.

True/False?

[JohnBrown1917]

No such thing as a free lunch, even if we had socialized health care, the EpiPen price would just be spread across all the tax payers.

So everybody who needed it could still get it, problem solved.
It would not be equelly spread among the tax payers, the rich would contribute more. Not to mention the goverment is not forced to buy the expansive kind, when the generics one exist.


Should also be noted that the US goverment spends more on healthcare than countries that provide it for free.

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I heard shes a Democrat and that her father is a Democrat Senator.

True/False?

Who gives a shit?

[ehxy]

Merica. Where if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment and take it you get thrown in jail.

But if you rape a few girls, have your daddy write a letter saying that 20 minutes of action shouldn't have an affect on the rest of your life or if you're a football star you can walk off with probation.

[BannedForViews]

All pharmaceutical companies do this Martin Shkreli just did it too obviously and got a bad rap for it. In the United States pharmaceutical companies can charge you whatever they want for no reason whatsoever and politicians from both sides are paid to look the other way. They will hold a kabuki theater hearing until the press / public forgets and nothing will be done about it.

Any business can charge you whatever you want. This is why free markets work. Competition forces prices down to a marginal profit. Has been proven time and time again, and yet people still support protections, subsidies, etc, like idiots.

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Merica. Where if you get cancer and can't afford the treatment and take it you get thrown in jail.

But if you rape a few girls, have your daddy write a letter saying that 20 minutes of action shouldn't have an affect on the rest of your life or if you're a football star you can walk off with probation.

An alternate strategy is to get thrown in jail first, then you get the cancer treatment for free.

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And the government could tell this company to fuck off and threaten to go to some generic.

Do you think the price would remain if they would lose THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES as a customer...? I doubt it.

It doesn't work like that now because some hospitals take it, some leave it, some insurance take it, some leave it, so long as they keep more than 25% of the business they previously had they make more money than they did previously... And that is literally all that matters, the bottom line.

It's funny that you've called me naive and idealistic on a number of occasions, and you think that is how any of this works. It isn't a question of generic or not, they are the only provider of either. There is no generic that a private insurance company, nor the US government could use. Nor has the US government shown EVER that they care about the costs of things, or would be willing to do such a thing. It's like you ACTUALLY think they give a shit how they spend our money, or have any interest in making things affordable. Must be hard to see through all that rose glass.

[Annoying]

Any business can charge you whatever you want. This is why free markets work. Competition forces prices down to a marginal profit. Has been proven time and time again, and yet people still support protections, subsidies, etc, like idiots.

Right up until you hit that whole "intellectual property" thing. EpiPens are a generic chemical (epinephrine), but the delivery method is patented. As we discussed earlier, you can get a vial of epinephrine and inject it yourself with a needle. It's not always possible, as I couldn't bring that to work (for example) and some people get angioedema (swelling) in their hands that would prevent them from administering it in such a delicate way. Hard to compete when the company owns the patent on the most effective delivery method.

[I Push Buttons]

It's funny that you've called me naive and idealistic on a number of occasions, and you think that is how any of this works. It isn't a question of generic or not, they are the only provider of either. There is no generic that a private insurance company, nor the US government could use. Nor has the US government shown EVER that they care about the costs of things, or would be willing to do such a thing. It's like you ACTUALLY think they give a shit how they spend our money, or have any interest in making things affordable. Must be hard to see through all that rose glass.

Yes it is entirely a matter of generics... The cost of these pens is the auto injector... Not the drug... The drug is simple epinephrine. You can get a vile of the stuff for a dollar.

That isn't an option for most people though because they don't know how to do injections properly and messing up an epinephrine injection could literally kill you if you inject it in a vein or something. Hence the need for auto injectors which require sufficient pressure and placement to ensure it goes into a muscle and are far safer than manual injections.

Do you think no pharma company would devise their own auto injector replacement if they could potentially sell tens of billions of dollars worth of them to one customer, the US government?

[TrumpIsPresident]

Who gives a shit?

Hmmm...

I guess, just based off the obvious, that I gave a shit.

Ya know ...since I asked.

[Zan15]

Yes it is entirely a matter of generics... The cost of these pens is the auto injector... Not the drug... The drug is simple epinephrine. You can get a vile of the stuff for a dollar.

That isn't an option for most people though because they don't know how to do injections properly and messing up an epinephrine injection could literally kill you if you inject it in a vein or something. Hence the need for auto injectors which require sufficient pressure and placement to ensure it goes into a muscle and are far safer than manual injections.

Do you think no pharma company would devise their own auto injector replacement if they could potentially sell tens of billions of dollars worth of them to one customer, the US government?

they can't devise their own auto injector, its protected by patents.
this is true with a lot of things that have crazy price increases including Insulin, ADHD patches and Asthma inhalers

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This problem is 30 years in the making for you folks quick to blame someone in office today

1. Drug protections meant to pay back research has allowed them to gouge patients and ins companies. This is the effect of a dozen administrations.

2. Import restrictions by bush disallow us to get the same drug cheaper from overseas manufacturers.

3. No price negotiation on drugs by medicare and obamacare.

4. Patent protections that are so overly broad on "delivery equipment" that protects a life saving drug for another gazillion years. No generics.

5. Mergers that allow multiple products to be purchased by big pharma who now own 100% of the market. They make every other company divest if they have over a particular number. Merck just announced one this week for 14 billion will give them total co troll over several key drugs.

Everyone has done a great job deflecting the hate to obamacare and insurance companies ignoring another trillion dollar problem.

This is what you get with billions of lobby dollars

[BannedForViews]

Right up until you hit that whole "intellectual property" thing. EpiPens are a generic chemical (epinephrine), but the delivery method is patented. As we discussed earlier, you can get a vial of epinephrine and inject it yourself with a needle. It's not always possible, as I couldn't bring that to work (for example) and some people get angioedema (swelling) in their hands that would prevent them from administering it in such a delicate way. Hard to compete when the company owns the patent on the most effective delivery method.

EpiPens were invented in the 1970s. The delivery method has not been patented for a long time. There are also other delivery methods that have been made since then, who's patents also have expired. The only reason there is a shortage is a lack of supply, and the only logical reason for a lack of supply, with such massive margins, is there is a different legal barrier to entry.

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they can't devise their own auto injector, its protected by patents.
this is true with a lot of things that have crazy price increases including Insulin, ADHD patches and Asthma inhalers

- - - Updated - - -

This problem is 30 years in the making for you folks quick to blame someone in office today

1. Drug protections meant to pay back research has allowed them to gouge patients and ins companies. This is the effect of a dozen administrations.

2. Import restrictions by bush disallow us to get the same drug cheaper from overseas manufacturers.

3. No price negotiation on drugs by medicare and obamacare.

4. Patent protections that are so overly broad on "delivery equipment" that protects a life saving drug for another gazillion years. No generics.

5. Mergers that allow multiple products to be purchased by big pharma who now own 100% of the market. They make every other company divest if they have over a particular number. Merck just announced one this week for 14 billion will give them total co troll over several key drugs.

Everyone has done a great job deflecting the hate to obamacare and insurance companies ignoring another trillion dollar problem.

This is what you get with billions of lobby dollars

There is no patent. The technology is like 40 years old. Also the price was 90 bucks just a few years ago, now 600. If it were a patent issue the price would have been high then entire time.

"But even absent consolidation, there is another barrier that appears to be in play: regulations by the FDA, and the huge backlog. Even generic drugs need regulatory approval to be sold, which makes sense: we don’t want fly-by-night companies selling impure or otherwise harmful drugs."

http://theconversation.com/the-real-...xpensive-64346

This is the exact argument Ive made on this thread and others. This is an FDA issue. They clearly aren't clearing generics for public consumption quickly enough. That is the ONLY LOGICAL REASON you can have a non-patented item with such MASSIVE margins. Anyone and their mom would make epipens if they could, but it is illegal to do so, because of the GOVERNMENT, who LOOOOVES to take care of us!

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Yes it is entirely a matter of generics... The cost of these pens is the auto injector... Not the drug... The drug is simple epinephrine. You can get a vile of the stuff for a dollar.

That isn't an option for most people though because they don't know how to do injections properly and messing up an epinephrine injection could literally kill you if you inject it in a vein or something. Hence the need for auto injectors which require sufficient pressure and placement to ensure it goes into a muscle and are far safer than manual injections.

Do you think no pharma company would devise their own auto injector replacement if they could potentially sell tens of billions of dollars worth of them to one customer, the US government?

I just answered this. This is an FDA issue. This is not a patent issue.

[I Push Buttons]

I just answered this. This is an FDA issue. This is not a patent issue.

I didn't say it was a patent issue?

[BuckSparkles]

Who gives a shit?

People who will try and blame conservatives for her actions.

She is a democrat. Special rules apply to her.

[BannedForViews]

People who will try and blame conservatives for her actions.

She is a democrat. Special rules apply to her.

There is nothing wrong with her actions. She is showing herself to be a great capitalist. The problem is the FDA who is barring competitors from entering this market and forcing the price down.