"The Void is a more potent foe by far than the Burning Legion"

[Enthralled]

This is .... fantasy world storycreep.

It begins when readers and writers start analyzing the mysteries of the world and have the (unnecessary) need to explain everything.

"Why does Sargeras want to destroy Azeroth?"
2000: Because Demons are evil and destroy all worlds.
2016: Because Baby Titans and the Void and Light and he isn't really all that evil, they have their reasons and and and...

I'd rather wish writers would avoid that kind of rigorous rational dumbing down of their worlds to try and explain everything.

You haven't shown any power creep there, just story progression. It happens in real life too -- things that we thought were true turn out not to be so, in favor of something else.

That's not to say power creep hasn't been a problem in the game. I just don't see this reorganization of the lore as that. It was very messy before. It was twenty years of retcons and books contradicting each other. Chronicle pulls all that together into a cohesive story, IMO.

[SoundOfGuns]

This "void" concept is boring.

Was it just made up so they could extend Lore and by doing so the Warcraft franchise after we have killed everything?

Well... to be fair it exists since basically ever. You know... the concept of Light and Dark is not exactly new and its not like Warcraft is the worst offender with it either... Even tho this particular... "fanbase"... yea, let's act like thats what it is... is more judgemental about it.

Originally the Light that Priests and Paladins use and the Naaru are so close to spread through the entire plane of existance. In some cases tho when "moving on" it left behind dark spots where the light eventually faded. This had no real reason... It just happened. And where the Light that once spanned the entire universe "died" it left behind the void. Now im not fully sure how the Voidlords came into existance but these guys basically predate the Titans as far as i know and also created the old gods. Soooo yea.

[Deleted]

It started with Orcs vs. Humans, nowadays it's cosmic powers of Light vs Dark and Titans and Demons and alternate dimensions and timelines!

The angels vs. daemons was established in WC1 as the background conflict, with WC2 changing it to Light vs. Legion. It's nothing really new, we always knew that some day we would fight the masters behind the Horde.

[Lady Velvet]

Are the Void Lords stronger than the Old Gods?

[Qualia]

Is Sargeras stronger than Mannoroth? :P

[Aucald]

Is Sargeras stronger than Mannoroth? :P

Not in the body odor department, but in every other conceivable fashion, yes.

[Lady Velvet]

Is Sargeras stronger than Mannoroth? :P

Hopefully this isn't a yes

[Deleted]

Hopefully this isn't a yes

It's a yes, the Old Gods were created by the Void Lords. Heck, Aman'thul killed Y'shaarj like a large tick that he was, crushing it with his fingers.

[Lady Velvet]

It's a yes, the Old Gods were created by the Void Lords. Heck, Aman'thul killed Y'shaarj like a large tick that he was, crushing it with his fingers.

Aman'thul is the leader of the titans though

[Deleted]

Aman'thul is the leader of the titans though

Yes, and Sargeras killed him. And Sargeras is afraid of the Void Lords.

[NightHaawk]

Even *if* we are to defeat all powerful Void Lords, we still risk a Void Titan being born as long as the void energies / Old Gods are still in our universe,

No this is where I just told you you are wrong, you even quoted it. The Void Lords are the ones capable of corrupting a world soul into a dark titan. They are the threat.

[nnelson54]

Whowing was already a stupid nickname in Cata, it didn't change now. Deathwing is a character that was established few years before Arthas. Glorifying Arthas and lack of awareness of Deathwing prior to Cata is usually a mark of a player who also lacks the awareness that the number 3 in Warcraft 3 is there for a reason.

I had no idea what "Whowing" was supposed to mean when I read his post. Deathwing has been in Warcraft since almost the beginning and was a force in WoW since TBC. Anyone who didn't know who he was has no one to blame but themselves.

[Tripzzz]

Simple - firstly, we don't share the same "uniquely susceptible to fel" weakness to the Titans. Then, it's not just the Titans spirits, we can get a bunch of blessings / empowerment from other sources as well, so it could be something like (Titans' spirits + Azeroth + Naaru + Elune + the elements + ...) blessing package, for example.

Of course, again, it's just a theory so Blizzard might not go with that route at all. However, I think that's a valid choice if they want us to fight Sargeras at his full power. Otherwise, they'd have to nerf him down to our level instead, which is a bit uncool (IMO).

Sounds like an asspull. First off, Sargeras is the size of a planet. How do you fight that without it looking extremely retarded?? Sargeras has been built up to be so strong, any explanation by BLIZZ to have us defeat him is really not going to make sense.

[Qualia]

No this is where I just told you you are wrong, you even quoted it. The Void Lords are the ones capable of corrupting a world soul into a dark titan. They are the threat.

... What am I wrong about?
"The Void Lords are the ones capable of corrupting a world soul into a dark titan"? Surely, they can. They are the threat? Sure, they are. I've never said that they can't corrupt the world soul or that they aren't (part of) the threat, haven't I? I said that they are not the entire threat of the Void. If you actually meant to say that the Void Lords are the ONLY ones capable of corrupting a world soul and they are the entire threat, then, well... All the Old Gods around the universe say hi. In fact, they are the one doing the corrupting, the Void Lords aren't. At the moment, there is no indication whatsoever that defeating the Void Lords would make all of the Old Gods disappear into thin air. Seeing that the Old Gods are spread around the entire universes, it's very unlikely that we'd ever defeat them (the Old Gods) all unless we somehow manage to travel to almost every planets (which is unrealistic, both in story and in gameplay).

Feel free to give me any quote indicated that I'm wrong if I missed those.

Sounds like an asspull. First off, Sargeras is the size of a planet. How do you fight that would is looking extremely retarded?? Sargeras has been built up to be so strong, any explanation by BLIZZ to have us defeat him is really not going to make sense.

By being buffed to being as big and powerful as him, duh. That's why we'd get all those empowerments. It's true that it's not a given that we will 100% defeat him - that's why I'm calling it a theory. I'm not calling it fact, neither am I saying Blizzard will definitely go that route. However, I believe that it's very likely to happen, simply because leaving such a big threat alive - even sealed or something similar - would feel really unfulfilling. If we are to fight him, then there'd be two situations - either we get buffed to around his level with our helpers, or he get nerfed to our level. Which one do you think more awesome?

[Tripzzz]

By being buffed to being as big and powerful as him, duh. That's why we'd get all those empowerments. It's true that it's not a given that we will 100% defeat him - that's why I'm calling it a theory. However, I believe that it's very likely to happen, simply because leaving such a big threat alive - even sealed or something similar - would feel really unfulfilling.

God I hope that doesn't happen. But seeing as how every paladin and their mom now wield the Ashbringer, I can see blizzard taking such a retarded ass route.

[Qualia]

God I hope that doesn't happen. But seeing as how every paladin and their mom now wield the Ashbringer, I can see blizzard taking such a retarded ass route.

At this rate, it's very likely it will happen. Look, things are already pointing towards Argus - which means we'd be killing Kil'Jaeden permanently "soon". We'd likely hitting there within 1 or 2 expansions, if we aren't hitting it in Legion. When that happens, we'd be running out of Legion's leaders to fight. What else? Only Sargeras left. Are we just keep closing portals over and over? Does that really sound more interesting than dealing with him directly one way or another, closing Legion chapter (at least for a while) and introduce new threat(s)?

And lore-wise, not every pally are wielding Ashbringer. However, I can see that you are going to the I-hate-it = It's-retarded route, so I won't be nitpicking at this.

[Combatbutler]

By being buffed to being as big and powerful as him, duh. That's why we'd get all those empowerments. It's true that it's not a given that we will 100% defeat him - that's why I'm calling it a theory. I'm not calling it fact, neither am I saying Blizzard will definitely go that route. However, I believe that it's very likely to happen, simply because leaving such a big threat alive - even sealed or something similar - would feel really unfulfilling. If we are to fight him, then there'd be two situations - either we get buffed to around his level with our helpers, or he get nerfed to our level. Which one do you think more awesome?

We beating Sargeras? That would be utterly cheap and pathetic to be honest, that guy defeated the Pantheon, and obliterated whole solar systems in the process, but we insignificant insects are somehow to beat him? All we should be able to do is distracting him, while another Titan kills him or something like that.

[Qualia]

We beating Sargeras? That would be utterly cheap and pathetic to be honest, that guy defeated the Pantheon, and obliterated whole solar systems in the process, but we insignificant insects are somehow to beat him? All we should be able to do is distracting him, while another Titan kills him or something like that.

Yes, that's a viable option, too. Which means we'd still need to find a way to rebuild / revive the Pantheon anyway - unless Blizzard suddenly introduce a completely new Titan from nowhere. My original point was to answer Tripzz's question of "How are the Titan spirits gonna do anything to help us defeat Sargeras when the Titans massively powerful bodies and spirits combined still got their asses beat". I'm very sure that they (the Pantheon's spirits) would help us one way or another. I believe that when they (Blizzard) "saved" the Titans in Chronicle, they must do it for a purpose. Otherwise, why bother saving them with Norgannon's spell? Just have their deaths send a mental shock to all Keepers if they need the Keepers to be unsettled for Yogg / Lei Shen story to unfold - that'd give us the same result.

[Aucald]

We beating Sargeras? That would be utterly cheap and pathetic to be honest, that guy defeated the Pantheon, and obliterated whole solar systems in the process, but we insignificant insects are somehow to beat him? All we should be able to do is distracting him, while another Titan kills him or something like that.

I imagine that if there is a confrontation between the players and Sargeras we'll either be in a support role to another qualified NPC to confront him, or we'll be greatly empowered in some fashion (perhaps by the Azeroth world-soul herself in some manner). It won't be just 10-25 scrubs killing a planet-sized and veritable god, or at least I hope it won't.

[Tripzzz]

At this rate, it's very likely it will happen. Look, things are already pointing towards Argus - which means we'd be killing Kil'Jaeden permanently "soon". We'd likely hitting there within 1 or 2 expansions, if we aren't hitting it in Legion. When that happens, we'd be running out of Legion's leaders to fight. What else? Only Sargeras left. Are we just keep closing portals over and over? Does that really sound more interesting than dealing with him directly one way or another, closing Legion chapter (at least for a while) and introduce new threat(s)?

And lore-wise, not every pally are wielding Ashbringer. However, I can see that you are going to the I-hate-it = It's-retarded route, so I won't be nitpicking at this.

I mean, we can deal with Sargeras without it being us to actually defeat him. Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the AU universe of AU Draenor have an Azeroth aswell?

This is how I would have it go down. After we stomp the Legion this expac, the leaders of Azeroth brainstorm ways to possibly stand up to Sargeras. They realize they have no chance in hell so someone in the know like Magni or Velen mention the AU Azeroth. We head over there and see the Black Empire was never defeated.

Que Old God/Black Empire expansion. After fighting the Black Empire, we discover all life on AU Azeroth is dead. Making it ok for this AU Azeroth to awaken as the legendary titan it is destined to be. Using help from the titan spirits, we awaken AU Azeroth.

This AU Azeroth comes over to our reality and does battle with Sargeras.

Now that would be awesome.