Mythic Archimonde - One last shot

[Fayenoor]

So, we have been mostly pugging our way through mythics. After the nerfs (7.0.3) we managed to get past Manno (took freaking ages) and are now on Archi final phase. We have one shot at getting him tonight, after which we will call raids till Legion. Decades behind and all that I know. But it does matter to the 10-12 people who have consistently weathered the Gorefiend and Manno wipes with us and PuGs.

Links to our logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/f6DHXwqM724CQpyh

2 tanks, 4 healers, 14 DPS. (general ilevel range 732-737)

• We lust on pull
• We get 1 Doomfire, 3 sets of shackles, 3 sets of Wrought of Chaos.
• Downstairs, we do 4 groups for Mark.

Our general issues downstairs seem to be people are still trying to get familiar with mechanics inside like Mark positioning, Heigan dance. And it is a chaotic mess.

We have considered saving lust for the final phase, but 2 Doomfires seem unmanageable for us.

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Fayenoor.

[pmkaboo]

if youre still struggling you might aswell wait a week and do it at 110 xD

[pkm]

Well you got a few days left for your raid to study the pattern (method made one) and there is a weak aura that makes marks much more managable. Can't remember the name though.

[Arcanines]

Drop a healer is litterly the easiest thing to do. If your doing 1 DF strat NEVER EVER use 4 healers. Its not worth it, if the healers struggle to heal Mark of the Legion and Infernals, then they need to sort their things out. Guilds are 2/3 healing it because its the only thing that deals dmg, and with personals no one should ever die.

[EzG]

Well you got a few days left for your raid to study the pattern (method made one) and there is a weak aura that makes marks much more managable. Can't remember the name though.

DBM does the exact same thing with marks. Just a slightly different look.

OP: For one you could probably drop a healer since you are getting to about 30% with one doing just as much as the tanks, and the others doing much higher. An extra dps never hurts. For dance you should have one person memorize the actual formation and call out "left,right,left", "right,left,far back", etc. etc. It will fix it if one person knows exactly what to do and people will follow assuming they know their directions. Overall your dps slightly low, I don't think some of the hunters know how their class works now (MM), since one of them casted mark shot 10 times over a 4:17 right. Now either thats stupid unlucky in sidewinder procs, or he's not sure what to do. A handful of your dps should be able to pull more numbers in general.

[Dracodraco]

Here's what you do in order to beat this boss:

1: You stop lusting in P1. Don't even bother. You're pushing the phase in about 35 seconds with lust. Doomfire is at 45 seconds.

2: You drop one of the four healers for a DPS. I know, I know, you're running pugs and all, but there's simply not enough damage going on for the fourth healer to be useful *at all*. Your holy priest is essentially dead weight every single pull, because there's nothing left for him to heal after the two shamans take care of the raid (and the paladin the tanks). If the priest is one of the long termers that HAS to be there, you drop a shaman and let him actually do raid healing instead of trying to play catch up with two chainheal-bots.
This will give you an extra DPS to help ensure P1 is done with 1 doomfire. Likewise, have the healers do as much DPS as they can for the first 15 seconds of the fight (tanks have ring up so there's no way they're dying, and no raid damage is happening) to help push it.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1799&wipes=1 the only one even trying to do damage all night was Cheyll.

3: Now you have lust available for later. Gratz. This will make P3 a breeze. You do P2 like you're used to; 3 shackles, no big deal. You're already not using the ring in P2 (and barely ever in P3, for some reason), so what you do is this;
As soon as you enter the nether, you go full-fucking-out. Realistically, this should happen at around 2:40 or so. You bloodlust, you pop the ring, you go fucking HAM while archimonde's not doing a lot. You'll get 3 minutes up with 20 seconds of lust leftover, right after the marks are done and infernals are popping up. They'll MELT. Don't delay the ring for 3 minutes. You'll just split it on the source that comes right after infernals.

Done right, by the time the first dance even comes, Archimonde will be around 30-25%. This means you'll likely just need to do the dance twice, and marks of the legion three times to succeed.

Likewise, you've got four hunters - make fucking use of them. Assign each to a voidstar in the back that they're responsible for killing. They can all solo one each, with everyone else doing the front stars and helping the hunters out a bit. Don't slack on that; Assign targets. Saying "kill stars" will just make them complacent, they'll figure "oh, someone else will switch, I don't wanna waste a marking shot proc on a star about to die". Fuck that.

Lastly, don't try to teach all of the raiders the fucking patterns. Have ONE intelligent and responsible guy spoonfeeding them information. You've got ONE raidnight for this. Fuck "best practice is letting everyone think for themselves". Get shit DONE. This one guy will be your fucking ROCK during seething. He'll spot which pattern you're on, then keep calling it out as it's happening in order to overwrite any panic people have. These are the options:

Two front-most platforms empty of fire: Pattern is Left-Left-Right.
Front-right plate is lit: Left-Right-Left.

Front-left plate is lit: Right-Left-Back.
There's two variants of Right-Left-Back - Leftback and Middleback in the end. Leftback if the left-most plate in the second row isn't lit up at any point in the combo. Middle-back if it is. They're super close, so "Back" should work.

He fucking needs to HAMMER this into them. The instant he spots it, this is what it needs to sound like:
"Pattern is Left Right Left. Everyone left!... Ok, get ready to go right, RIGHT, RIGHT! Ok, ready to go left, LEFT, LEFT". Don't let them panic. Keep hammering the info into them.

[Fayenoor]

Well you got a few days left for your raid to study the pattern (method made one) and there is a weak aura that makes marks much more managable. Can't remember the name though.

Is that one at the wowhead guide (Method's Mythic Archi) ? We use that WA. However, I think we are missing some Angry Assignment part of the WA. The main problem we are having with marks is that if we lose 1-2 people due to stupidity before the marks, we end up not having enough soakers -- result more people die and we snowball from there.


Thanks a lot Draco. We will try this tonight.

[Soulstealing]

if youre still struggling you might aswell wait a week and do it at 110 xD

Way to encourage less hardcore raiders who haven't yet completed the raid.

Literally follow what Draco has posted he's our Raid Leader and knows his stuff.

[Fayenoor]

Here's what you do in order to beat this boss:

1: You stop lusting in P1. Don't even bother. You're pushing the phase in about 35 seconds with lust. Doomfire is at 45 seconds.

2: You drop one of the four healers for a DPS. I know, I know, you're running pugs and all, but there's simply not enough damage going on for the fourth healer to be useful *at all*. Your holy priest is essentially dead weight every single pull, because there's nothing left for him to heal after the two shamans take care of the raid (and the paladin the tanks). If the priest is one of the long termers that HAS to be there, you drop a shaman and let him actually do raid healing instead of trying to play catch up with two chainheal-bots.
This will give you an extra DPS to help ensure P1 is done with 1 doomfire. Likewise, have the healers do as much DPS as they can for the first 15 seconds of the fight (tanks have ring up so there's no way they're dying, and no raid damage is happening) to help push it.

We can go down a healer and save lust for P3. Priest can go shadow. Problem is he is lacking gear and we dont have a replacement, so wont be a lot of DPS. We will try it. The 2nd WW in our raid is also a healer main doing DPS.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1799&wipes=1 the only one even trying to do damage all night was Cheyll.

3: Now you have lust available for later. Gratz. This will make P3 a breeze. You do P2 like you're used to; 3 shackles, no big deal. You're already not using the ring in P2 (and barely ever in P3, for some reason), so what you do is this;

We ignore and heal through the 3rd shackle. The 3rd Wrought and 3rd Shackle and 2nd wave of adds all line up somehow. We zerg him to 40% and let shackle break when get ported down. Sometimes we tend to bring some of the dogs down with us. Which is a massive loss of DPS uptime on Archi at start of P3. We will try to clean that out.

As soon as you enter the nether, you go full-fucking-out. Realistically, this should happen at around 2:40 or so. You bloodlust, you pop the ring, you go fucking HAM while archimonde's not doing a lot. You'll get 3 minutes up with 20 seconds of lust leftover, right after the marks are done and infernals are popping up. They'll MELT. Don't delay the ring for 3 minutes. You'll just split it on the source that comes right after infernals.

We were saving 2nd ring for 2nd set of Infernals. With the change to lust order, we will pop 2nd ring + 2nd Pot + lust as soon as first set of conduits go down.

Done right, by the time the first dance even comes, Archimonde will be around 30-25%. This means you'll likely just need to do the dance twice, and marks of the legion three times to succeed.

Can we sacrifice the 4 people on the 3rd set of marks? Odds are we will probably lose as many people trying to soak the 3rd Mark.

Likewise, you've got four hunters - make fucking use of them. Assign each to a voidstar in the back that they're responsible for killing. They can all solo one each, with everyone else doing the front stars and helping the hunters out a bit. Don't slack on that; Assign targets. Saying "kill stars" will just make them complacent, they'll figure "oh, someone else will switch, I don't wanna waste a marking shot proc on a star about to die". Fuck that.

The stars have fixed point of origin, right? So I can just assign targets via position?

Lastly, don't try to teach all of the raiders the fucking patterns. Have ONE intelligent and responsible guy spoonfeeding them information. You've got ONE raidnight for this. Fuck "best practice is letting everyone think for themselves". Get shit DONE. This one guy will be your fucking ROCK during seething. He'll spot which pattern you're on, then keep calling it out as it's happening in order to overwrite any panic people have. These are the options:

Two front-most platforms empty of fire: Pattern is Left-Left-Right.
Front-right plate is lit: Left-Right-Left.

Front-left plate is lit: Right-Left-Back.
There's two variants of Right-Left-Back - Leftback and Middleback in the end. Leftback if the left-most plate in the second row isn't lit up at any point in the combo. Middle-back if it is. They're super close, so "Back" should work.

He fucking needs to HAMMER this into them. The instant he spots it, this is what it needs to sound like:
"Pattern is Left Right Left. Everyone left!... Ok, get ready to go right, RIGHT, RIGHT! Ok, ready to go left, LEFT, LEFT". Don't let them panic. Keep hammering the info into them.

This will have to be me. I will memorize the patterns. Think they are on wowhead Method Archi guide.

- - - Updated - - -

DBM does the exact same thing with marks. Just a slightly different look.

OP: For one you could probably drop a healer since you are getting to about 30% with one doing just as much as the tanks, and the others doing much higher. An extra dps never hurts. For dance you should have one person memorize the actual formation and call out "left,right,left", "right,left,far back", etc. etc. It will fix it if one person knows exactly what to do and people will follow assuming they know their directions. Overall your dps slightly low, I don't think some of the hunters know how their class works now (MM), since one of them casted mark shot 10 times over a 4:17 right. Now either thats stupid unlucky in sidewinder procs, or he's not sure what to do. A handful of your dps should be able to pull more numbers in general.

Yea, we have a lot of sub-performing DPS. Including myself. I seem to have a good opener and then fizz out as fight progresses. Victim of cardinal sin of fight watching over doing things right.
We will go down to 3 healers and try lusting in P3.

[Dracodraco]

We can go down a healer and save lust for P3. Priest can go shadow. Problem is he is lacking gear and we dont have a replacement, so wont be a lot of DPS. We will try it. The 2nd WW in our raid is also a healer main doing DPS.

That's fine, any DPS will help. Even a bad shadow priest with Surrender to Madness can go absolutely ballistic in the last phase when you're burning, so don't sweat it. He's more useful doing bottom DPS than he is soaking up healing that the other three healers do not need help with.

We ignore and heal through the 3rd shackle. The 3rd Wrought and 3rd Shackle and 2nd wave of adds all line up somehow. We zerg him to 40% and let shackle break when get ported down. Sometimes we tend to bring some of the dogs down with us. Which is a massive loss of DPS uptime on Archi at start of P3. We will try to clean that out.

Just ignore the dogs, they're not an issue. Assuming you have 3-4 hunters, they will passively cleave down the dogs anyway with Barrage+Sidewinders+Marked shots without losing *any* boss damage. Hunters literally get 100% free cleave. DKs diseases will also hurt them, your own ignite will spread assuming they run near archimonde etc etc - you get five seconds from Archi starts casting the nether-tear in P2 where everyone can try to dot up dogs, and even if all 6 are alive, they'll die without further prompting very quickly downstairs. Don't bother targetting them. This is how our dogs looked this last week to give an idea, look at the various damage abilities:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=246 Only one who actively AOE'd was Lensy, it looks like (and knowing ele shaman, that might be a singletarget increase - it has been in expansions past due to various procs).

We were saving 2nd ring for 2nd set of Infernals. With the change to lust order, we will pop 2nd ring + 2nd Pot + lust as soon as first set of conduits go down.

Fair, but unneeded. Make sure to have a DK in each melee front group, so they can grip an infernal each - that leaves one infernal that will likely spawn in ranged for the ranged to pick up and nuke, along with two infernals you can just AOE down (again, Barrage OP - this was our infernal dmg this week:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=252 Notice how Kayman did 650K without even targetting them (I was bursting down the ranged infernal to make sure it didn't get into melee). Split them and you'll barely have to touch them.

Can we sacrifice the 4 people on the 3rd set of marks? Odds are we will probably lose as many people trying to soak the 3rd Mark.

Sure, although lots of classes can immune them; Hunters can turtle+disengage, mages can iceblock, remove block, blink, and rogues can cloak+shadowstep. If WW monks still have transcendence and their 90% dmg reduc (we don't have a WW so I legit do not know if those things got pruned), they can solo it as well.

The stars have fixed point of origin, right? So I can just assign targets via position?

They do. They spawn in a star pattern - two front melee (one left, one right), two back on the sides (one left, one right), and one furthest back in the middle.

This will have to be me. I will memorize the patterns. Think they are on wowhead Method Archi guide.

In that case, don't assign yourself to other jobs in P3 - delegate unless you're 100% sure you can handle it.

- - - Updated - - -

[ItsTiddles]

If Mark of the Legion is still an issue, I would recommend this addon. It's more cleaner than DBM, in my opinion, and it holds everyone's hand through the process. The way we do it is make the first 2 groups all melee (tanks, and possibly a hpal/mw monk depending on comp) then ranged + healers in the back. If you're like us and have too many melee, put the ones who can move the fastest in the back. If you're the opposite and have too many ranged, I'd recommend a healer then a range dps that can move quickly (boomies, mages). Make sure that everyone is close enough to get to certain markers, maybe even have one of your shamans switch to Wind Rush Totem if people react slowly and need the boost. One person dead shouldn't cause the mark to kill everyone, but 2 people dead in the same group could make it funky. Personal defensives and healer CDs (like SLT, which your shamans seem to want to hold on a lot of fights) are effective here.

Tip on healer cds: I would use the large output healing cds (like HTT/tranq/hymm/revival) and the ring on the marks of the legion/infernals. I believe the 3rd infernal spawn is slightly delayed compared to the rest so I would recommend your hpriest (if he's there) on this one because his ilvl is significantly lower and the other healers have time to heal others up as needed during the pause, if he's not, ring is also good here because healers have time to cast before infernals. The others just rotate your shamans/monk (if he's there).

[Darkguyver2020]

if youre still struggling you might aswell wait a week and do it at 110 xD

The Felsteel Annihilator mount won't be a guaranteed drop once the expansion is released. It'll be reduced to a 1% drop rate, like many Heroic/Mythic mounts before it.

[Deleted]

Mark of the Legion nowadays is facerolled with DBM. It automatically does both the soaking groups and the soakees. Just look at the center of the screen for where to go to.

It might mess up with multiple assists though, or it might be because of clashing versions, in any case a single raid leader for it might help.

The legion helper addon is an inferior solution because it explodes the front ones first.

[ItsTiddles]

The legion helper addon is an inferior solution because it explodes the front ones first.

Not inferior if you prefer it that way

[Deleted]

Not inferior if you prefer it that way

Most guilds explode perpendicularly to the face of the boss. That way it's easier to double soak and die. You could explode diagonally but it's more delicate to work out.

[OrcsRLame]

All I can say, is good luck OP. Dracodraco covered everything else. Win or lose, do your best and try to keep morale up!

[Deleted]

dude - good luck! draco draco covered it all.

if anyone is streaming you might get some live feedback!

[Adramelch]

Most guilds explode perpendicularly to the face of the boss. That way it's easier to double soak and die. You could explode diagonally but it's more delicate to work out.

How is it more delicate to work out? It's the exact same thing, difficulty-wise.

[Dracodraco]

Most guilds explode perpendicularly to the face of the boss. That way it's easier to double soak and die. You could explode diagonally but it's more delicate to work out.

If your melee didn't automatically start exploding diagonally to maximize their uptime, I question their ability to be melee. Getting punted sideways into the middle keeps you in range to melt the boss' face the entire time, getting punted straight back does not.

[Silfury]

going by the logs you didnt kill it
i wish i knew about this yesterday , i would of helped out one of my 3 toons over 740