Arms Legion Discussion

[Holofernes]

i just spent some time overlooking all the artifact traits considering Execute or no execute use. sup 20 % ideal play will probably be cs- execute-ms due to precise strike making a 40 rage execute for 23 rage, wiht a 15 % increased crit chance, which will be better than a 13 rage ms, even if u factor in that u have a 40*.65 % chance to proc tactician from the execute, aka wasting one ms. i think the precise strikes is not really well reflected in the models, it has a huge impact on dpr ratios.

kodus to the game theoretics guy that could give actuall numbers about this

[nyjl]

Life was so much easier before I saw this.

it would be even easier if someone hadn't decide to use cpp for simcraft

[Gorgrom]

So is OP still simming higher than dauntless with the FR build after the fix?

[ReD-EyeD]

So is OP still simming higher than dauntless with the FR build after the fix?

I sim Warrior_Arms_T19M : 456522 dps for Overpower and Warrior_Arms_T19M : 463562 dps for Dauntless.

I will miss Overpower. I liked pressing that button with that cool shoulder push animation.

[volgon]

I sim Warrior_Arms_T19M : 456522 dps for Overpower and Warrior_Arms_T19M : 463562 dps for Dauntless.

I will miss Overpower. I liked pressing that button with that cool shoulder push animation.

I mean, we're talking a 1.5% dps difference in a sim. You'll get more variation from typical RNG like crits/rage gen or player error. If you like Overpower, use it.

[ReD-EyeD]

I mean, we're talking a 1.5% dps difference in a sim. You'll get more variation from typical RNG like crits/rage gen or player error. If you like Overpower, use it.

I understand it, but if we take player's attention and apm as a resource then deleting one button out of the rotation is actually increasing dps even more than 1.5%. Well, more rage also helps, obviously.

[Archimtiros]

I understand it, but if we take player's attention and apm as a resource then deleting one button out of the rotation is actually increasing dps even more than 1.5%. Well, more rage also helps, obviously.

Well, the opposite is also true. Consider that Dauntless allows for more rage, which means more actions, leading to more button pressing and chances for error; therefore you could make the same argument from either side.

[ReD-EyeD]

Well, the opposite is also true. Consider that Dauntless allows for more rage, which means more actions, leading to more button pressing and chances for error; therefore you could make the same argument from either side.

Nah, only if you're rage capped and its not that easy to do unless you're sleeping while Battle Cry is up.

[CollisionTD]

it would be even easier if someone hadn't decide to use cpp for simcraft

Those decisions were made many, many years ago.... (probably 10 years at this point)

[thefatty01]

I understand it, but if we take player's attention and apm as a resource then deleting one button out of the rotation is actually increasing dps even more than 1.5%.

IMO... Overpower is right under CS in priority, right? So literally if you see teh button pop up, then press it. This is super easy. Probably easier than spamming slam, because you might kinda go into autopilot and press it too many times? Maybe. IDK if I see overpower pop, I'll press it.

[ReD-EyeD]

IMO... Overpower is right under CS in priority, right? So literally if you see teh button pop up, then press it. This is super easy. Probably easier than spamming slam, because you might kinda go into autopilot and press it too many times? Maybe. IDK if I see overpower pop, I'll press it.

It's like saying that playing piano (I'm not comparing wow to piano playing) and you just need to press "buttons" to produce music. Add a lot of stuff like encounter itself, maximizing boss dps uptime, dodging stuff and keeping defensive cooldowns for your raid on top of your general rotation and suddenly 1 button is actually a lot. Will it change much? Certainly not. Will it still be difference in at least one per cent? Certainly yes.

[Archimtiros]

Nah, only if you're rage capped and its not that easy to do unless you're sleeping while Battle Cry is up.

Sure you can. If you fail to execute an action, or use the wrong action when you could have used the right one, you've made an error. There's more than just rage to consider, but chances to proc over a given time, utilizing buffs to their maximum potential, and so on.

I'm not saying it's substantial, but neither is your claim that adding one button to the rotation is going to have a serious impact on performance. Maybe for some people, but those people aren't performing anywhere near the top of the spectrum no matter how many buttons they use, in which case evaluating a 1.5% difference in simulated damage is beyond them to begin with.

[thefatty01]

I think the big difference between dauntless and OP will just be the feel of the spec. If I'm sitting at low rage a lot, then I'll go dauntless. If I think I'm hitting Slam too much, I'll probably go OP.

[Valkaneer]

What am I dumping rage into though?

Cost Dmg Dmg/Rage
10 162% 0.162 Execute
20 210% 0.105 Slam
15 164% 0.109 Focus Rage
25 183% 0.073 WW
25 238% 0.095 WW FoB
20 327% 0.164 MS
10 375% 0.375 Overpower

So if your in execute range you want to spam execute, MS when it's available and OP if talented.

[thefatty01]

So if your in execute range you want to spam execute, MS when it's available and OP if talented.

but you have to account for buffs and stuff. Like CS buffs MS. So you still CS -> MS, then execute.

[Valkaneer]

but you have to account for buffs and stuff. Like CS buffs MS. So you still CS -> MS, then execute.

Well yes, to me you CS always no matter what all the time unless BC is very close to coming off CD.

[thefatty01]

sorry I was referring to the dmg/rage ratios... my b my b.

[Phanuel]

sorry I was referring to the dmg/rage ratios... my b my b.

But CS isn't doing anything special to the rotation other than making you go "Oh, it's not up so my damage is now 70% worse. So I shouldn't rage dump just yet." You're still going to mash buttons if you're rage capped.

[Holofernes]

cs buffs ms and execute exactly the same, and the rage reduce talent after cs (reduce ragecost for ms or execute after casting cs by 45 %) actually favors execute imo. getting a 40 rage execute for 23 rage or a ms for 12 rage is a huge difference. , ontop the fact that u have HUGE crit chance on execute (its like +45 % crit for execute, aligned with 30 % bonus dmg, whereas ms gets only the baseline +30 % +30%)

so after cs u would hit ms: ms (327 % weapondmg) * 1,3(bonus dmg) * 1+ (crit + 30 % critchance), for 12 (20 *055 rage)

execute would deal 162% weapondmg per 10 rage *4 *1,3 *1, (crit +45 % critchance), for 23 (40*0,55) rage.

so execute woul deal ( i ommit basic critchance on both cases, so its directly comparable, but keep in mind that the chance to not crit is diminishing with further crit, so a little devaluation to a (very small) extent hast to be cared for)

1221.4 % weapondmg for 23 rage.

ms would deal 552.63 for 12 rage.

so dpr and dmg wise, execute wins over MS.

Fr has its own "dpr" values and is seen independently ,as its intrinsic value doesnt change by the other buffs, and the buff would still be consumed without changing those ratios one global later. the only bad situation that could arise is getting a tacticion proc from the 40 rage execute after cs, the chance for this is 0.26 %. i can live with that.

[Warriorsarri]

You can argue all you want in favor of Execute, it's still not going to worthwhile to press.