Not sure which spec to focus on first for artifact weapon!

[elcapone]

according to sims outlaw is already ahead of sin in ~840 gear altough it is close, but the gap only gets wider the more gear you get, and by the time you get to nighthold sims sub is ahead of it as well and starts catching up to outlaw

this is all of course subject to change, and assa will still be decent and by far from being the worst spec, so if you're not in a top 1% guild and you like assa you can play it without too much headache it's not unplayable, it's just worse than the other 2

yea i am not in with love with any spec, so will probably switching to outlaw then sub

[Nastynelbur]

there's no reason to level up assa atm since outlaw is basically better at almost any stage of the game and sub will become better later.

it's just worse than the other 2

It's funny that you think assassination is the worst of the rogue specs for PvE. I mean, all it has is superior ST and cleave compared to sub for the entirety of t19, and much stronger burst ST compared to outlaw, right?

[Wow]

and much stronger burst ST compared to outlaw, right?

Before the nerf sure but now not so much also remember everytime run through has got buffed it's made dreadblades burst stronger and stronger.

[Nastynelbur]

From Skasch's simc page, https://gyazo.com/3bf5396d5f0214e217543e5f7dfbc329 vs https://gyazo.com/91e9448bbdd338294239da0d041f985e

The assassination profile is clearly not optimal, but the patterns between that and an optimized profile should be similar regardless. If https://simc.skasch.com/rog_t19p.html is accurate, and you can check Skasch's simc page for different gear levels as well, then obviously the gap between outlaw and assassination is going to be relatively small. With that in mind, it's reasonable to assume at this point that assassination will be capable of higher burst than outlaw. The significance of that in progression would be assassination's ability to quickly nuke priority targets compared to outlaw.

[shaunika123]

It's funny that you think assassination is the worst of the rogue specs for PvE. I mean, all it has is superior ST and cleave compared to sub for the entirety of t19, and much stronger burst ST compared to outlaw, right?

watch recent sims

also sub actually outcleaves assa above 2 targets fyi

and outlaw has way more burst with CotDB now that exsang is nerfed.

[Nastynelbur]

Do you have any sources at all that backs up what you're saying?

edit: I should probably mention that I've heard sub scales better past two targets than assassination does, but I haven't seen anything that says it will to such an extent that it will actually overtake assassination in terms of overall dps on such fights in the gear that we'll be using through t19 progression.

[elfporn]

Do you have any sources at all that backs up what you're saying?

edit: I should probably mention that I've heard sub scales better past two targets than assassination does, but I haven't seen anything that says it will to such an extent that it will actually overtake assassination in terms of overall dps on such fights in the gear that we'll be using through t19 progression.

You havn't seen it because the finalized APL's havn't been released by aethys yet. People are running their own sims, or finding incomplete ones that other people ran.

Outlaw is ahead, and with proper preparation will definitely burst higher than assassination (dreadblades with SiW and sprint up).

They are all pretty close.

[Nastynelbur]

There's no debate that outlaw isn't the overall top ST spec. This is about burst. And as far as its burst goes, from what we can actually observe, there's no reason to believe that outlaw has superior burst to assassination. Even if it does have higher burst than assassination with sprint, SiW, and CotDB, which hasn't been shown, it still wouldn't be as reliable, and assassination would still be better for killing priority targets.

[glowpipe]

My plan was leveling and sticking with assassination. But after reading this thread im starting to feel more like leveling and maining outlaw instead. For raiding normal and heroic (mostly heroic) and mythic + (as high as we can get) Will that be the smart choice or just stick with assassin even for mythic + ? Sub is a nono even tho its the best dps at t19. Im not playing something i don't enjoy only for 3% higher numbers or whatever it is. Fun is what im settling for now. Not "world first".

[Pantheman]

Is there a point when we can get all 3 artifacts to be 13 or whatever? Or do we only get two?

[elfporn]

My plan was leveling and sticking with assassination. But after reading this thread im starting to feel more like leveling and maining outlaw instead. For raiding normal and heroic (mostly heroic) and mythic + (as high as we can get) Will that be the smart choice or just stick with assassin even for mythic + ? Sub is a nono even tho its the best dps at t19. Im not playing something i don't enjoy only for 3% higher numbers or whatever it is. Fun is what im settling for now. Not "world first".

Outlaw will net you the best dps across all situations as compared to the more niche leaning sub and assassination. And if you don't let the rng bother you, outlaw is fun af

[shaunika123]

Is there a point when we can get all 3 artifacts to be 13 or whatever? Or do we only get two?

you can get all 3 artifacts to 13 in like a week it's above that that it starts getting harder :P

[Icecreamcake]

So 5 days leading up to release, mythic raiders SHOULD go Outlaw correct? Everything I'm seeing is pointing Outlaw since Assassination is not far behind and Outlaw is able to do AoE as well as keep up with ST even with bad RNG. I'm still confused if some of these sims are with the 2 buffs or 6 buffs.

[Replica]

So 5 days leading up to release, mythic raiders SHOULD go Outlaw correct? Everything I'm seeing is pointing Outlaw since Assassination is not far behind and Outlaw is able to do AoE as well as keep up with ST even with bad RNG. I'm still confused if some of these sims are with the 2 buffs or 6 buffs.

Pretty much, put your dreadblades to 1 gold, then assassination max asap

[elfporn]

Pretty much, put your dreadblades to 1 gold, then assassination max asap

probably will be better served to max outlaw, as it's top until after nighthold, and then fill sub after

[Replica]

probably will be better served to max outlaw, as it's top until after nighthold, and then fill sub after

I've heard people talk about this results but i havent seen much proof - shadowcraft source?

[Haram]

Hey MMO-C Rogues,

As a player who is still indecisive on what I will be leveling (before Rogue it was either Warr or Pally), I feel a bit overwhelmed with regards to pure dps classes in Legion. I want to initially just stick with Outlaw (not only because its fun but also does good damage from what I hear), however if Sin or Sub becomes a stronger spec, will leveling up the artifact take a substantially long time?

As with my pally, I will only be ret so it's not so much of an issue.

[Firatha]

I've heard people talk about this results but i havent seen much proof - shadowcraft source?

https://simc.skasch.com/ closest truth we have.

[Replica]

https://simc.skasch.com/ closest truth we have.

Thanks /10char

[Creamz]

Those Sims are absolutely bullshit tbh. I dont know if anyone of you guys played beta or if you really tested all the specs. But all of you who think outlaw will be better then assassination in the real game are just out of their minds.

Outlaw is impossible to play flawless (but this is what the numbers of the sim are coming from) at the moment, because of energy capping, over proccing of cps, HUGE variance regarding roll the bones. NO ONE ON THE WORLD want a class in mythic progression (20 man) where a dps only perform good each other try. You want a constant nice dps so the raid will have the same chances of defeating the boss EACH TRY.

Stick to outlaw if you want, you will notice how shit it can be. It is a nice spec when the bosses are clear to everyone and you can focus on or rotations and dpsing, but regarding real progress outlaw is just shit.

-high eng raiding rogue since tbc


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