No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Mafic]

well in a certain sense the fault is on the shoulder of the many players who always keep silent and never flood twitter/the forum etc protesting in an official manner; obviously blizzard is more keen to not trying to fuck us stealthy if they fear a huge fuss is raised on the forum, especially the us one who is the only one that have direct access to the devs.

On one hand complacency and trusting Blizzard has a been problem trying to rally players to see that WoD pathfinder =/= Legion patchfinder. When first announced many players assumed that Legion patchfinder was right away better than WoD pathfinder because it did not have treasures as a requirement and Blizzard was "better prepared" and had a "plan". The truth is that this is no different than from before.

Technically speaking the majority of the WoD pathfinder achievement involved non-Tanaan checklists to complete. But it was Tanaan achieves that took the lionshare of time to unlock flying in WoD.

Blizzard claims part 1 is the most extensive part of the achievement, but that is most likely not true as that is misleading. Maybe it is a longer check list but if they hide part(s) 2 and/or 3 behind long rep grinds like Tanaan had then they mislead and obfuscated the playerbase with sleight of hand kabuki theater.

All in all, we will have to wait and see how this unfolds, but I am pretty certain at this point it is not going to go over well with a playerbase that will be overwhelmed with what Legion is asking out of them. There is no garrisons to hide how poor the world is to navigate without a flying mount.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, at least skipping the second expansion in row is much easier that the first. It is sad we will never know how many people will quit because of repetition of this shit.

I didn't skip WoD. but I am on my way of joining you along with the others with skipping Legion completely if this is their attitude moving forward.

[Connll]

Well, at least skipping the second expansion in row is much easier that the first. It is sad we will never know how many people will quit because of repetition of this shit.

I stopped playing in Cata, and bought Pandaria (a few weeks after 5.3) Just because of WoD (oh, the hype..). Pandaria was an excellent Xpack.

WoD, on the other hand, I left it about 3 days before 6.2. I only regret not leaving it earlier.

Learned my lesson with WoD, as well. I won´t stand for such behavior from the developers, so no fly no buy.

[Elim Garak]

That's not irony, and not at all what my point was. Nice try though.

Alanis is that you?

You complained that the thread is going on, while at the same time by that very complaint you were making it go on. That's irony in a nutshell.

AND YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT.

[Seramore]

Alanis is that you?

You complained that the thread is going on, while at the same time by that very complaint you were making it go on. That's irony in a nutshell.

AND YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT.

I would be willing to say you were right if not for the fact that I asked a question, not complained.

[Elim Garak]

I would be willing to say you were right if not for the fact that I asked a question, not complained.

Riiiight. Semantics. Moving on.

[Seramore]

Riiiight. Semantics. Moving on.

Is this kid for real? You got so worked up over my post that you tried to make an edgy argument against something that I didn't even say and now you're backpedaling.

[Hexxidecimal]

I guess what I was referring to was how ready people are to leap to the defense of virtually anything Blizzard does, regardless of what it is. Even if people like no-flying and pathfinder, the way in which Blizzard is going about presenting and handling its implementation through WoD and into Legion is utter and complete garbage.

Ah, some no doubt will support blizzard in all their decisions. I guess I am just numb to rampant fanboyism, you see it so often in gaming. That being said were I not so jaded to the whole thing then yeah, I would very much agree. It would be worrisome; should be even. I do not like the way the have handled flying or flight. Instead of embracing it and designing for it they went the opposite direction. I feel this was in part, because they were trying to push out xpacs too quickly and coding for flying is more time intensive, at least for WoD. For Legion, well they have no excuse other than they genuinely like their implementation for flying. Even still, their handling of it is pretty poor. A point I have always agreed with. I don't believe the reason for the poor handling to be anything as nefarious as they can get more money. It makes no sense for that spin, especially if you consider how many people this situation has caused to be upset. Regardless of how benign (or not) their reasons however, this is something they really should communicate clearly and nail down.

I'm confused. You say we know the bulk of what is required, but then go on to say that what we don't know about part 2/3/4/etc could be virtually anything. All we have to go on is Blizzard's word that part 1 is most of it, and right now Blizzard's word is worth less than pocket lint when it comes to flying.

This is one of those points I simply can't get behind. You have two options here, first look at the evidence and the explanations we have and make judgments and determinations based off that. If you start throwing out what we do know because Blizzard hasn't always been correct, then we can start to make up whatever the hell we want and make wild accusations based of that. For instance we know what the 1st part of pathfinder is right? Who told us that? Who has implemented that? Blizzard. If we can just assume they are lying to us at any point then whats the purpose of even discussing literally anything? It could all be one big lie to keep us all on the hook to they can later on in the expansion just say, "HA JUST KIDDING NO FLYING CAUSE WE NO LIKE". You have just made up your own scenario at this point and discussing it with someone who can just willy nilly make their own...suddenly it's not a conversation anymore. There isn't much to be confused about. Either we can discuss the merits of what they have said and shown or we can say, I think they are lying and then just sit and wait until they prove one way or another. Otherwise all you are doing is speculating on why they are lying about flying when in fact that haven't actually DONE that yet. If you want to take the wait and see approach, good on ya. That is far more constructive than speculating what motives they have for lying and spinning tales to fit a your narrative, when we don't even know if they have lied to use yet (specifically in regards to their pathfinder part 1 explanation).

Also to note I don't think you are doing much of what I am describing here. You have generally kept to the fact as we know them. I am just saying if we aren't willing to at least entertain the idea that they are giving us correct information there is little reason to keep the discussion going till the prove one way or the other. It becomes wild speculation, which is anti-productive in a discussion in which we should focus on the evidence at hand so we can give constructive feed back.

For instance we have a number of people (me included even) who are getting all whipped up about part 2 requiring mythic runs when don't actually know that for a fact yet. It may be true sure, but we don't know. We got to this point because we were willing to indulge in the lack of information and making up what we want to fill that lack of information. While we can complain about the lack of information we shouldn't fill it in with our own narrative.

I listed flight at cap only as a point of reference. I'm of the opinion that a simple gold payment to unlock it is just as bad as pathfinder, in terms of cool-factor. As someone said earlier in the thread: They're missing a tremendous opportunity here, in terms of in-game lore, presentation, and player good-will.

I agree. The Pathfinder they have showed to us is not much different than the last. While it felt good to get flying, it was far far far away from being engaging, interesting or epic. It was an annoying grind. If they actually decided create content to around the idea of not flying and getting it back, that would be fantastic. Pathfinder however, I hesitate to call content. I don't mind the basic idea of pathfinder, but improving it would greatly increase the appeal of the whole thing.

[rebecca191]

What I am doing is less wait and see, from beta I know I like enough to eventually want to buy Legion. It is about minimizing the amount of time I have to play without flying. If I wait until the patch that enables flying is on the PTR, then I can buy Legion, start working on the achievemment, and only be stuck on the ground for the shortest possible time. If I hadn't played beta, I might be more in the wait and see group.

I don't mind the mythic dungeon requirement personally, I don't expect it will be difficult for me. But I don't think it makes sense to include it in the achievement.

[Azerox]

If it was about the money you would think Blizzard would say " Flight in Legion purchasable at the cash shop for 24.99". God knows I would pay it in a New York minute.

Would be too obvious

[Deleted]

Would be too obvious

Also works out not so well if you can get out more from a player because he has to invest more time in finishing his desired content since travel and quest mazes eat up more time than before. Of course, you have to balance this with players quitting because they cannot bear the tedium. Let's see how things will develop.

[Mafic]

Also works out not so well if you can get out more from a player because he has to invest more time in finishing his desired content since travel and quest mazes eat up more time than before. Of course, you have to balance this with players quitting because they cannot bear the tedium. Let's see how things will develop.

The problem is that have added layers of tedium and will turn around and say: "See you are not willing to crawl through glass for flight so you don't care". Most players rather straight up quit than put up with a hamster wheel that has no cheese as an end reward. An end reward that will be awarded later in a unknown time table and requires you do more to receive said award doesn't motivate a lot of players IMVHO.

[Elim Garak]

The problem with their approach is you must do everything that you want to do with flying but on foot in order to get flying and have nothing to use it for.

[SirCowdog]

The problem is that have added layers of tedium and will turn around and say: "See you are not willing to crawl through glass for flight so you don't care". Most players rather straight up quit than put up with a hamster wheel that has no cheese as an end reward. An end reward that will be awarded later in a unknown time table and requires you do more to receive said award doesn't motivate a lot of players IMVHO.

I think you might be underestimating how much people are willing to do stupid crap that they don't like in order to get something they want.

I also think you touched on something important here, as well. If players show Blizzard that they're willing to put up with the Pathfinder nonsense now, it's tacit approval of the Pathfinder format. Blizzard has already stated that they liked how it worked in WoD, and if it gains more implied approval in Legion, we're going to keep seeing more of that theme in later content.

This is why I REALLLLLLLLY hope people make a stink when they start finding out about mythic dungeons being on the list. It's bad enough we have to do so much of the open world in the first place, leaving almost nothing left over to flight on afterwords. But dungeons aren't even IN the the open world at all. Strangely enough, now that I think about it, I'd almost rather ALL the requirements were in instances. At least that way when we got flight we'd have something current to use it on.

[MasterHamster]

People complaining about mythic dungeons accomplish nothing but show they are not willing to put in effort in an MMO.

Aw shit why do I have to dig in minecraft to get diamonds?!

But sure, a lot of incompetent players will complain in Legion, the rest will adapt and progress. Like MMO players do.
There is no end to this discussion otherwise. Anything that takes time is just a conspiracy to make players buy sub time anyway right
Which is strange considering that WoW has always relied on such things, whether it was RNG, attunements, itemization or anything else.
Objectively Legion is extremely accessible but not to the apathetic levels of garbage WoD.

But the arguments about flight will continue. And that is just because the rabid pro-flyers refuse to agree with Blizzards stance on flight. They consider flight to be an immensely powerful tool that lets you ignore a large part of ground content. And that's why they don't want players to have it until mid-end expansion when most are leveling alts anyway. Regardless of whether or not you understand or agree with that standpoint.
But to people that genuinely think that "flying is a choice" is a good argument, they'll never understand why flight "has to be" staggered in order to give an MMO longevity. They'll never understand why people in MMOs 99% of the time choose the more efficient option whether they want to or not.

Sorry, but game design doesn't agree with the notion that giving players everything they think they want results in a game with longevity, or is economically viable.

If I see a faction where Exalted gives me a trinket that is more or less on par with a heroic raid trinket, I am going to put in effort to get exalted for that trinket, even if the effort to get it gets repetitive at times. But to pro-flyers that is just a trap to make me pay for a subscription. Blizzard lying. Blizzard ripping me off and prolongling content.

Maybe eventually it'll become apparent why this sandbox-mentality argument doesn't work. And why people that think any "prolonging" in an MMO is a sham to get more subscriptions should just quit and play an instant gratification game instead.
Judging by Legions beta response, Legion will succeed where WoD failed. The pitchforks will have to wait I think.

[Hexxidecimal]

I think you might be underestimating how much people are willing to do stupid crap that they don't like in order to get something they want.

I also think you touched on something important here, as well. If players show Blizzard that they're willing to put up with the Pathfinder nonsense now, it's tacit approval of the Pathfinder format. Blizzard has already stated that they liked how it worked in WoD, and if it gains more implied approval in Legion, we're going to keep seeing more of that theme in later content.

This is why I REALLLLLLLLY hope people make a stink when they start finding out about mythic dungeons being on the list. It's bad enough we have to do so much of the open world in the first place, leaving almost nothing left over to flight on afterwords. But dungeons aren't even IN the the open world at all. Strangely enough, now that I think about it, I'd almost rather ALL the requirements were in instances. At least that way when we got flight we'd have something current to use it on.

You mean "If". We don't know that they are required yet.

[SirCowdog]

You mean "If". We don't know that they are required yet.

I thought this was confirmed a few pages back? Did I misread?

[Hexxidecimal]

I thought this was confirmed a few pages back? Did I misread?

My understanding is nothing has been confirmed. BUUUUT maybe I misread? I am not sure. All I know is that I have been unable to find anything concrete on what part 2 entails when I have searched.

[SirCowdog]

But the arguments about flight will continue. And that is just because the rabid pro-flyers refuse to agree with Blizzards stance on flight. They consider flight to be an immensely powerful tool that lets you ignore a large part of ground content.

Which is a false assumption. The content is still there. The only difference is how it is approached. The only thing being ignored is the idea that there's only one, simplified way to approach it.

There's no mistaking that flight is a powerful tool, but that should be USED by the design instead of ignored. We've been over this ad nausem, but it's clear that Blizzard is missing an incredible opportunity to enhance the gameplay. But instead they're applying the same oversimplified philosophy to EVERYTHING. It's a weakness, even if some people enjoy the results.

But to people that genuinely think that "flying is a choice" is a good argument, they'll never understand why flight "has to be" staggered in order to give an MMO longevity. They'll never understand why people in MMOs 99% of the time choose the more efficient option whether they want to or not.

Another false assumption. Flight and longevity are not mutually exclusive concepts. Taken to an extreme, EVE online is nothing BUT flying, and it's clearly successful. What you should have said is "flight has to be staggered in order to give Blizzard's oversimplified ground design more longevity than it's actually capable of on its own."

[/B]If I see a faction where Exalted gives me a trinket that is more or less on par with a heroic raid trinket, I am going to put in effort to get exalted for that trinket, even if the effort to get it gets repetitive at times. But to pro-flyers that is just a trap to make me pay for a subscription. Blizzard lying. Blizzard ripping me off and prolongling content.

Straw man, much? At least with such a theoretical trinket, it would maintain its usefulness in all future content until you got an upgrade. As has been pointed out MANY times already, the flying situation is like withholding the trinket until after you've cleared everything that you'd use the trinket on. The faction requires exalted to get the trinket, and the trinket has a bonus that gives you 50% more reputation gain with the faction required to buy it in the first place.

Judging by Legions beta response, Legion will succeed where WoD failed. The pitchforks will have to wait I think.

Using a beta that's going on during a 14 month content drought to estimate the longevity and quality of an MMO is a pretty bad metric. Of COURSE people are going to think it's good, because they're bored out of their minds with the complete and total lack of anything to do on the live version.

As I've said several times, the real test of Legion will be 3-4 months in, when the "new and shiny" effect is starting to wear off.

[MoanaLisa]

I guess what I was referring to was how ready people are to leap to the defense of virtually anything Blizzard does, regardless of what it is.

It's as if you refuse to acknowledge that there are plenty of people ready to leap to the attack of virtually anything Blizzard does, regardless of what it is.

One is as bad as the other.

What's really fucking worse and there are plenty here guilty of it is that anyone that takes a rather neutral stance about an issue is pilloried from post to post as defending Blizzard. It's the worst sort of hypocrisy. I can provide quotes if you like. Fuck knows there's a veritable forest of them.

[SirCowdog]

My understanding is nothing has been confirmed. BUUUUT maybe I misread? I am not sure. All I know is that I have been unable to find anything concrete on what part 2 entails when I have searched.

The only things I could find was the part that requires stuff from the Emerald nightmare raid and some items required for the order hall campaign being in dungeons. These are both in Legion Pathfinder Part 1.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=43362/the-stuff-of-dreams
http://beta.wowdb.com/quests/42959-t...a-lucky-number

Which sets the precedence that some requirements for Pathfinder will be in group-instances. Whether or not those will be mythic, I couldn't confirm. I suppose it's entirely possible that they could be obtained from LFR and normal modes. Although, given the heavy emphasis on other parts of the achievement in Suramar, it wouldn't surprise me that you'd need something from the two mythics found in Suramar also.