Relic drops from raids.

[oqtopus]

What's even more particularly bad about this system is that most of the BiS relics will drop from mythic dungeons, which means titanforged or high mythic+ loot will be the best gear in the game for many, and once we get those there won't be much of a point grabbing new ones from the new raid (vs just grinding out more mythic+ drops).

mythic+ wont open until the raids do , and its meant as a "instead of" not "a step before raid"

[BiggestNoob]

mythic+ wont open until the raids do , and its meant as a "instead of" not "a step before raid"

No, that's "better than." It's bad design, as is the theme in Legion.

[Deleted]

Lots of features in Legion aren't too well thought. Some just plainly suck.

Those relics and random legendary drops are among those sucky features.

The devs are trying to turn WoW into Diablo III-esque gear grinder. Except this does not work with WoW - in WoW you have weekly resets on instacnes and you don't kill 500 monsters per minute.

I miss pre-WOD wow with set in stone gear system. No warforged tier, no random sockets, none of this "get mythic raid item from a normal 5-man" bullshit.

[jasdasm]

Lots of features in Legion aren't too well thought. Some just plainly suck.

Those relics and random legendary drops are among those sucky features.

The devs are trying to turn WoW into Diablo III-esque gear grinder. Except this does not work with WoW - in WoW you have weekly resets on instacnes and you don't kill 500 monsters per minute.

I miss pre-WOD wow with set in stone gear system. No warforged tier, no random sockets, none of this "get mythic raid item from a normal 5-man" bullshit.

so you miss only having a RAID to gear up... ok

[LilSaihah]

Lots of features in Legion aren't too well thought. Some just plainly suck.

Those relics and random legendary drops are among those sucky features.

The devs are trying to turn WoW into Diablo III-esque gear grinder. Except this does not work with WoW - in WoW you have weekly resets on instacnes and you don't kill 500 monsters per minute.

I miss pre-WOD wow with set in stone gear system. No warforged tier, no random sockets, none of this "get mythic raid item from a normal 5-man" bullshit.

So you've provided a lot of value judgments there without actually providing any reasoning behind your value judgments.

[Deleted]

It's gonna be a huge shitshow.

It's the reverse, assuming they tuned the drops to be equivalent. It's the reverse because now the weapon is effectively split into 3 parts as a "drop". You no longer look for a Staff for example, you are looking for 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of Staff only so even if it's the same in total, per raid, it's less strenuous psychologically and practically to manage.

[BiggestNoob]

It's the reverse, assuming they tuned the drops to be equivalent. It's the reverse because now the weapon is effectively split into 3 parts as a "drop". You no longer look for a Staff for example, you are looking for 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of Staff only so even if it's the same in total, per raid, it's less strenuous psychologically and practically to manage.

These are by far the most potent drops aside from any OP trinkets. In reality you're looking for specific relics, not any relics, and you have 60-100 needed in the raid, and they have a really low drop rate.

Weapons aren't quite the same, when a weapon drops it's huge for the group because it goes to who can make the most use out of it. Then when another one drops, even if it's WF, it still goes to the biggest upgrade for the group. By having everyone need 3 drops and these relics being usable by most people (if not BiS) you run into contention way more often and there is no big power jump for the entire raid like when a good weapon drops, especially given that often an ilvl upgrade may outshine the trait that's being buffed and so someone will end up soaking a relic just to replace it with a higher mythic+ BiS relic a month later (which doesn't happen with weapons, you get a new weapon in the next raid tier or as WF of BiS).

It's also going to take a long time to figure out who is the best recipient of these. All around terrible design.

[spleen1015]

So, for personal loot purposes, you want to make sure you have the right loot specialization selected for bosses. If a boss doesn't drop a good relic for Resto but one for Guardian, make sure you have Guardian selected.

Another question. Can I get a relic more than once? If I have a certain boss drop relic equipped and no room for the same relic, can it drop again?

[Deleted]

Another question. Can I get a relic more than once? If I have a certain boss drop relic equipped and no room for the same relic, can it drop again?

Yes, many classes even got artifacts with 2x the same kind of relic slot in it.

[Deleted]

so you miss only having a RAID to gear up... ok

But wow always had such a gearing system. Vanilla / BC had tier gear only from raids. And it was way more difficult to get than current raid gear (less items per player)
I won't be playing in Legion. Sub runs out within a month and a bit. I sold most of my gold already too.
They butchered my class and made this game into Diablo 3 gear grinder. On top of raiding I'd have to grind AP, world quests and mythic+ dungeons. I don't have the time and energy for this. WoW addiction brought me into social withdrawal and depression, it's a good thing that I dumped it and came back to real life. Good game, brought me a bit of fun but fuck this.

[justflayin]

Ahh well, i used the information i got from wowhead.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=248628/l...s-what-we-know

Relics:
New items will be dropping called Relics.
Relics can be socketed into your Artifacts and give you bonus ranks into the traits that have ranks.
This is more customization - i.e. do you want to be more about burst aoe or more survivability, etc.
The relics over time will be able to give ranks to previously rankless traits.
Each weapon can only accept certain types of relics. Different people will be seeking out different relics: holy, fire, water, shadow, etc.
Artifacts will change with tiers to keep the game fresh, which means set bonuses do not need to be as game-changing.
There will be a "Warforged" system but this will not apply to Artifact weapons.

The last phrase i where i got the false info from

Artifact Weapons can't be warforged. That is correct.

[Dracodraco]

It's the reverse, assuming they tuned the drops to be equivalent. It's the reverse because now the weapon is effectively split into 3 parts as a "drop". You no longer look for a Staff for example, you are looking for 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of a Staff + 1/3rd of Staff only so even if it's the same in total, per raid, it's less strenuous psychologically and practically to manage.

Tell that to classes whose BiS drops were 1H weapons+Offhands in tiers past; Since the implementation of TF/WF/Socket tertiaries, it just means an extra item you need to be lucky on to acquire the best possible combo. You won't have sockets on relics (AFAIK, anyway - I may be wrong) but getting the right relics with a titanforged tertiary is still part of the deal. It's much easier to be lucky once than thrice. Personally I've always preferred if my weapon is tied to a single upgrade, because I get the full power straight away with a single drop, rather than hoping to get a second drop before I can take advantage of the full combo. This is less serious considering you can still use the full-power relic with the two other worse relics, but still, point remains that getting lucky 3 times is much worse than 1.

[Deleted]

It's much easier to be lucky once than thrice.

That sounds right but it's practically wrong. Assuming the same balance framework from Blizzard, gear is dropping with a certain competition in the raid that wants it. If a single weapon was very important and it had certain competition, it comes to reason equivalent competition will exist for 3 different items now, meaning you will be getting relics dropping more frequently, with more choice than the drops of single weapons and it evens out, assuming no major paradigm shift from Blizzard in raid drops which is unlikely and actually irrelevant to the point if we can't know either way.

[Dracodraco]

That sounds right but it's practically wrong. Assuming the same balance framework from Blizzard, gear is dropping with a certain competition in the raid that wants it. If a single weapon was very important and it had certain competition, it comes to reason equivalent competition will exist for 3 different items now, meaning you will be getting relics dropping more frequently, with more choice than the drops of single weapons and it evens out, assuming no major paradigm shift from Blizzard in raid drops which is unlikely and actually irrelevant to the point if we can't know either way.

Considering it was stated in this very thread that relics would drop with the frequency of weapons (which doesn't seem unreasonable; There's 10 relic types. Off the top of my head, weapon types:

2:

Axes.
Maces.
Staves.
Polearms.
Bows/guns/crossbows (lets count them as one as there is no real difference).

1:
Maces.
Daggers.
Axes.
Wands.
Fist Weapons.

Which totals up to 10) that doesn't seem right. Here, I'll even quote it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nip1Q3jnbFw

One minute in

Drop chance in dungeons and raids is the same as weapon drop chance in old dungeons and raids

So I'll restate: It's much easier being lucky once and getting your titanforged bow as a hunter, than being lucky three times getting your life/blood/storm relics (shared with god knows how many specs; At least a ton of weapons was fairly restrictive previously, so handing them out was a lot easier. Not so anymore).

You're essentially arguing that it's easier to get your hands on a titanforged bow, dagger and 2H axe than it is to JUST get the bow - and that's just not true.

What DOES happen is them extending the "shelf life" of gearing up for a bit - making sure everyone needs 18 items rather than 16 by adding two relic slots means it takes slightly longer to get fully geared, and there's even more loot to titanforge. Likewise, making the weapon drops more "universal" than the atrocity that is Guns/Crossbows/Bows that only a single class can use, means less DE'd loot. There's positives and negatives to it, but denying the negative is there is silly.

[Deleted]

I'll even quote it

That person probably doesn't have a firm grasp of the english language because that video doesn't say anything about drop chance. Even if it did, it's just a promotional video and devs tweak those things, and we know they never reveal drop chances to begin with. We can only assume the chance of 3 relics vs 1 weapon set is normalized to not be that different to what we know about their methodology.

What DOES happen is them extending the "shelf life" of gearing up for a bit

That is a good point. In the scenario that the chance of 3 relics is normalized to 1 weapon set it would make the new system easier. In any case though blizzard will never reveal the exact drop chances.

Frankly, I'm not even sure their methodology is an exact science, they might deviate here and there or they might change their mind on drop chance methodology every once in a while.

[kamuimac]

well right now everyone will need 3 of them like they have 3 weapon slots, 6 if you also running an offspec. This is gonna suck

12 if you are druid

[mrgibb]

Regarding relics I would like to add there is chance for them to be upgraded from one time quests green to pop rare and rare to pop epic. And yes its like weapon drops with a twist. To be honest I love the mechanics of artifact. Very convenient esp not using 2 slots per in the bags for those who use x2 weapons.

- - - Updated - - -



You get an upgrade trinket and equip it. What do you do with the old one? Either vendor it or disenchant it. Maybe even keep it in the bank for a month until you totally forget you ever had it and vendor it again.

So whats different between this and destroying relic. Especially when by making you destroy the old one it makes you think for a change rather than just look at ilvl say "this is bigger equals better".

Is bagspace really an issue anymore, with the wardrobe function, with the reagent bank etc etc?
I have 4x30 slots bags on my rogue, and I would have made it fine with 4x20 slots instead.
Most of the stuff I carry is just novelty items like Thunderfury.

Skickat från min E6653 via Tapatalk

[BiggestNoob]

You get an upgrade trinket and equip it. What do you do with the old one? Either vendor it or disenchant it. Maybe even keep it in the bank for a month until you totally forget you ever had it and vendor it again.

So whats different between this and destroying relic. Especially when by making you destroy the old one it makes you think for a change rather than just look at ilvl say "this is bigger equals better".

No, because one trinket is good for AoE fights, or good for survivability, etc. Same with these relics. You can get an AoE trait or a ST trait or a survivability trait. With trinkets you can use the ones that are the most beneficial for any given situation. That's not something you can do with relics, and as a result they're far less interesting.

[Demeia]

well right now everyone will need 3 of them like they have 3 weapon slots, 6 if you also running an offspec. This is gonna suck

yes, I myself find this quite off-putting. I don't know why the want to absolutely lock us into a spec. Many of us don't want to be. The game is not better that way. Absolutely 3 relics per class--but don't make that 3 relics per spec per class (and 12--TWELVE--potentially for druids).

I do agree with the poster immediately above the person I quoted that this solves many problems; but they unnecessarily created even more problems for off-specs and alts.