Ret Paladin 7.0.3 DPS comparison

[Kayzza]

It might just me being optimistic and wanting to hold onto my favorite class, but I honestly believe we are going to be fine by the 21st. I am having a hard time deciding what to main right now though. Unholy DK and Enhancement Shaman both are looking like they are in a good place and I like the way they play. Despite this I still think I am going to pick ret.

It's good that you can still do that. I'm ditching my ret after 10 years, just feel like this time around (again) they won't fix anything. Other specs can do most stuff alot better once again, and this is prolly my last expac so im not gonna be annoyed 50% of it cause of lolret.

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

I can already see Arcane Mages forming their own "ranking" groups for late game.
"LFM Mythic XXXX Need Ret Paladins."
Stacking GBoM and GBoW on a single mage for infinite mana and damage procs, damage procs obviously counts to rets but more buffs on 1 thing = higher overall damage. Or maybe you'd go 3 Arcane Mages and 9 rets.

I did say make it where they can't stack. I don't feel 2%hp and mana every 5 seconds for our main utility asking for much. As of now it's worthless, 3 might all the way. Maybe, stacking Kings on the MT.. "Maybe"

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It's good that you can still do that. I'm ditching my ret after 10 years, just feel like this time around (again) they won't fix anything. Other specs can do most stuff alot better once again, and this is prolly my last expac so im not gonna be annoyed 50% of it cause of lolret.

You wanna have some fun? Play Druid(any) Warlock(any) Rogue(sub), or WW monk. Played those all on the beta and it's a blast.

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You might not like Resto Druid if you are into arenas, Mages spell stealing stacks of my HoTs was over annoying.

[Taeldorian]

@Ciric-Wildhammer I'm starting to wonder if that's intended. It makes Rdruids the worst healers by far (aside from disc) in arenas. They already don't bring too much. Obviously it's magic so it should be steal able but still. Not that I care, I play holy anyway and it's insanely good with both damage and heals with Aveng talent. Got off topic, but still. Really surprised that's okay.

[trm90]

The melee utility debate is a slippery slope, but Ret Paladins bring more to a raid than *most* of their melee counterparts. They have defensives almost on par with Rogues. More importantly, defensives for ALL melee specs were nerfed across the board, but Retribution Paladins still have BoP/LoH/DS, and the option to spec into Divine Intervention and WoG. Many other melee specs e.g. Enhancement Shaman / Windwalkers / Survival Hunters / DKs bring little to nothing specific to a raid, although they admittedly shine a lot in M+.

I'm not trying to argue that they objectively have as much utility as some other classes, but that in an expansion where tons of abilities and defensives were pruned or nerfed, Ret managed to keep a lot of great abilites.

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

The melee utility debate is a slippery slope, but Ret Paladins bring more to a raid than *most* of their melee counterparts. They have defensives almost on par with Rogues. More importantly, defensives for ALL melee specs were nerfed across the board, but Retribution Paladins still have BoP/LoH/DS, and the option to spec into Divine Intervention and WoG. Many other melee specs e.g. Enhancement Shaman / Windwalkers / Survival Hunters / DKs bring little to nothing specific to a raid, although they admittedly shine a lot in M+.

I'm not trying to argue that they objectively have as much utility as some other classes, but that in an expansion where tons of abilities and defensives were pruned or nerfed, Ret managed to keep a lot of great abilites.

If you are using WoG to heal in a raid you are doing it wrong, someone is doing it wrong. You do not spend your only dps resource to heal, its questionable to heal only costing a global.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Okay. No melee bring raid tools.

DPS warriors (not tank warriors) bring raid shout, 15% increased max health for X seconds. (Commanding Shout iirc.
Shamans and Feral Druids bring a raid sprint.
dps DKs bring ST grips which is a big step down from AoE grips but still very strong.

That's a few from DPS specs that are considered raid cds and will ALWAYS be good!

Then you have a lot of utility that is ST.
Ret has Sacrifice.
Owls have Innervate (no mana cost for X seconds, used on healers)
*insert any offhealing here*

Saying that nobody has raid tools anymore is just wrong.

[marinos]

DPS warriors (not tank warriors) bring raid shout, 15% increased max health for X seconds. (Commanding Shout iirc.
Shamans and Feral Druids bring a raid sprint.
dps DKs bring ST grips which is a big step down from AoE grips but still very strong.

That's a few from DPS specs that are considered raid cds and will ALWAYS be good!

Then you have a lot of utility that is ST.
Ret has Sacrifice.
Owls have Innervate (no mana cost for X seconds, used on healers)
*insert any offhealing here*

Saying that nobody has raid tools anymore is just wrong.

Sac is holy only now.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Sac is holy only now.

Didn't ret get something similar to sac?

Looked at wowhead
So... basically the only utility ret can offer is Greater Blessing og Kings/Wisdom?
which will almost never be used because GBoM counts as the Rets damage and not using 3x GBoM will nerf your own damage.

...what the F went wrong with ret fantasy?

[andz]

Yes sure, the most awesome raid utility of all: Hand of Hindrance .. oh wait

[marinos]

Didn't ret get something similar to sac?

Looked at wowhead
So... basically the only utility ret can offer is Greater Blessing og Kings/Wisdom?
which will almost never be used because GBoM counts as the Rets damage and not using 3x GBoM will nerf your own damage.

...what the F went wrong with ret fantasy?

Ye we got nothing in return for losing sac

[trm90]

Grips are next to useless in a raid and Ferals and Shamans have horrible defensives compares to Rets

BoP and LoH are still a thing sitting in your spell bars that are very useful for prog. I'm sorry but Rets are not lacking in the utility department

[TriHard]

Towelliee spoke about some guy's paladin build being leaked for Legion, what was that about?

I'd love to hear if there's a certain build I should go to make my pally viable.

[marinos]

Towelliee spoke about some guy's paladin build being leaked for Legion, what was that about?

I'd love to hear if there's a certain build I should go to make my pally viable.

Got the VOD from Towelliee cause I havent heard anything about this build leak.

[TriHard]

Got the VOD from Towelliee cause I havent heard anything about this build leak.

It was like 15 minutes ago or so, so just go onto his current stream and check it out. I kinda missed out on much of it, but apparently some guy's
build was really good in Legion and he did not want it to be leaked

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https://embed.gyazo.com/2dbe9cf72a56...28c23eb6f1.png I got this from Twitch chat in his channel

[marinos]

It was like 15 minutes ago or so, so just go onto his current stream and check it out. I kinda missed out on much of it, but apparently some guy's
build was really good in Legion and he did not want it to be leaked

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https://embed.gyazo.com/2dbe9cf72a56...28c23eb6f1.png I got this from Twitch chat in his channel

https://www.twitch.tv/towelliee/v/85766590 at 03:18:00 he refers to a sim that shows ret as top10 dps. There was no secret paladin build, just the sim was supposed to be kept a secret.

[OrcsRLame]

It was like 15 minutes ago or so, so just go onto his current stream and check it out. I kinda missed out on much of it, but apparently some guy's
build was really good in Legion and he did not want it to be leaked

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https://embed.gyazo.com/2dbe9cf72a56...28c23eb6f1.png I got this from Twitch chat in his channel

The sim you got from Twitch chat is the generic 840 ilvl 19 trait sim that's been circle jerked around every wow forum over the last week. This sim that shows ret as top was apparently made by Xyronic, a warlock in Limit and he accidentally showed the sim on his stream. If anyone knows the date where that was shown I'd be happy to look through his VODs.

PS: Suddenly I'm sounding 1% less crazy when I say that ret's numbers aren't terrible. How quickly things change.

[Gracin]

PS: Suddenly I'm sounding 1% less crazy when I say that ret's numbers aren't terrible. How quickly things change.

You're sounding less crazy because there may or may not be a sim out there, that nobody can really confirm exists or is even legit? Calculating your sanity after those unknowns, increases your crazy... lol

[Grimgrin]

Sac is holy only now.

Protection also has Sacrifice.

[Butosai]

The sim you got from Twitch chat is the generic 840 ilvl 19 trait sim that's been circle jerked around every wow forum over the last week. This sim that shows ret as top was apparently made by Xyronic, a warlock in Limit and he accidentally showed the sim on his stream. If anyone knows the date where that was shown I'd be happy to look through his VODs.

PS: Suddenly I'm sounding 1% less crazy when I say that ret's numbers aren't terrible. How quickly things change.

I garuntee you that was t19 single target 2+ legendaries. Either that or wrong.

[marinos]

Protection also has Sacrifice.

True,forgot about it.