Already too much to do before raids in Legion

[ComputerNerd]

There is plenty which players can opt to do.
There is a difference.
If you are going beyond the blizzard-dictated requirements then that is the fault of players only.

Blizzard are not "forcing" that.

[Berndorf]

That is just like your opinion man. Plenty of people actually don't mind there being more to raiding(much less mythic raiding) than leveling to max level, running a few dungeons then waltzing into raid content. Some people actually like, o idk, lots of stuff to do in an mmo.

[Littleraven]

Dont get me wrong, i dont want everything served to me. But is it really that hard to ask for crafting/crafting or gathering/gathering to be viable like it have been for over 10 years?

Is it too much to ask we are not forced to re-run dungeons until our hands fall off so we can enter Mythic raiding?

What? The first part I will sort of give you. You only get partial credit because crafting stopped being as useful in MoP. It still had its uses but they have been pruning the use of crafting since BC. Each expansion since has made it less and less important. Remember when you had wizard oils and shit like that that were required or you could GTFO?

As for the second part. Have you even been playing this game? You have ALWAYS had to re-run dungeons for gear. It has expanded quite a bit because they have become more lucrative over the years (especially in legion) but grinding dungeons has always been a part of the game with WoD being the only exception. So I have no idea what you are talking about here.

I will gladly take more content over less.

[Spunt]

My guild raids mythic, and i am looking forward to raiding as an Unholy DK.

What i am not looking forward to is the incredible grind to 850 ilvl and forced gathering/crafting combo spending vast sums of money on crafting and re-running the same mythic dungeons while grinding AP like crazy.

It feels so unflexible and grindy. I am forced not to spend more than 12 lvls of AP on my off-tank spec, so i cant competitively tank anything later (and tanking is what gets you groups and faster pulls).


Dont get me wrong, i dont want everything served to me. But is it really that hard to ask for crafting/crafting or gathering/gathering to be viable like it have been for over 10 years?

Is it too much to ask we are not forced to re-run dungeons until our hands fall off so we can enter Mythic raiding?

I welcome a challenge in skill. I am not sure i welcome a challenge in staying awake.

You probably never raided in vanilla where you need to farm like crazy since you could stack elixirs which did not persist through death or had to farm mats for a full set of resist gear or attunements or enchants that required weird mats and weren't garuanteed to drop every time you ran BRD.

Spoiled little brat.

[Hexxidecimal]

Sorry to say this, but taking the game seriously is the main reason quite a few people play it. I don't have any fun doing trivial content for most of my playtime.

This sentence is completely incongruent. If the content is trivial why are you doing it? If it ISN'T trivial and it has an affect on what you are doing then it stands to reason it isn't trivial.

If you are are doing progression raiding, then that small % of power increase IS meaningful. If you aren't, well then, don't do it? This entire game is based off of small power increases. Even for mythic+ raiders who go for those larger power gains by vastly superior gear need those smaller increases to be able to tack the raid challenges to get the vastly superior stuff. Pretty much since always.

Debating whether or not you find this content "fun" is moot though. Only you get to decide that. It IS meaningful, even if it isn't fun for you. So that being the case, what would you suggest be different?

- - - Updated - - -

You probably never raided in vanilla where you need to farm like crazy since you could stack elixirs which did not persist through death or had to farm mats for a full set of resist gear or attunements or enchants that required weird mats and weren't garuanteed to drop every time you ran BRD.

Spoiled little brat.

FR gear was a pain, but ya know what I hated more was getting nature resist for Huhuran.

[snackfeat]

There can never be too much to do.

[Deleted]

"Blizzard, we need more content! GIVE US MORE!"

"Blizzard, you're giving us too much content! STOP IT!"

thats exactly how i read the OP & the answer i said to myself as i read it was "fuck off, twat".

[Feawen]

As a Mythic raider with Legion coming out, I am sad about the many posts like these coming out. WoD was a desert of content, enjoy Legion.

[Marrilaife]

I don't get this idea that maxed crafted gear is absolutely necessary. Unless you are in the top 1000 guilds in the world it really doesn't matter all that much (and if you're below top 3000-5000 then wasting money and mats on being cutting edge is a complete waste anyway).

Narrow it down to maybe... top 250?

Top 1k in HFC meant you cleared it about 7 months after tier release, by that time any edge you grinded at start of the tier had zero meaning.

Bah, maybe top 400 was the cut off point of clearing it before Blizzard gave guilds a hand with valor upgrades.

And the top of the top guilds amassed so much gold from selling Archi mounts and 13/13M boosts for gear they can just buy their way to decking their raiders in crafted gear assuming they deem it the efficient way to go.

Random Joe that is in a "semi-hardcore" guild that never sold Archi mounts because they killed him too late can literally pretend crafted gear doesn't exist and be fine with it. Just run your 3 sets of weekly mythic dungeons, do some dailies and you'll be fine... Same as every expac since wotlk? No idea where came this notion the sky is falling.

Also chances are if you aren't world top 300 rank your gm can't really "force" you to do anything because he spends more time fighting the roster boss than the raid bosses itself. He can't bench everyone who didn't do bleeding edge preparations because he would have to bench 90% of the guild if not 100%, and he can't do that.

If you're top 100 or less... well you knew it's gonna be alts, split runs, nolifing and so on, be it in raids, mythic+ or in the outdoors. I know a guy who got an offer from one of the world top guilds and declined because "he'd rather have a life", he's still in world top 500 guild but without the whole nolifing part.

[Mytheros]

"Blizzard, we need more content! GIVE US MORE!"

"Blizzard, you're giving us too much content! STOP IT!"

Exactly my thought...blizzard literally can't win.

[Lannden]

Jeez, the WoW player base proves that you can't please everyone. Almost everyone I know actually likes this gearing system because it gives us things to do. If you don't actually the content that is gearing you this genre might not be for you since this content is the essence of this genre that WoW had moved away from.

[Deleted]

This sentence is completely incongruent. If the content is trivial why are you doing it? If it ISN'T trivial and it has an affect on what you are doing then it stands to reason it isn't trivial.

Uhm, because it gives the best rewards? You know, to stay competitive? How does that not fit

If you are are doing progression raiding, then that small % of power increase IS meaningful. If you aren't, well then, don't do it? This entire game is based off of small power increases. Even for mythic+ raiders who go for those larger power gains by vastly superior gear need those smaller increases to be able to tack the raid challenges to get the vastly superior stuff. Pretty much since always.

And I do want to raid with my guild and kill stuff as fast as we can, so it's definatly meaningful to get that gear.

Debating whether or not you find this content "fun" is moot though. Only you get to decide that. It IS meaningful, even if it isn't fun for you. So that being the case, what would you suggest be different?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, don't you see how many people in this thread want to tell me how I am supposed to have fun? That their way is the only way the game should be about.

FR gear was a pain, but ya know what I hated more was getting nature resist for Huhuran.

*shrug* at least during TBC I was happy grabbing the resist gear on my tank, had 1 of each set in my inventory. I can stand the odd little grind and shit, but
I don't like when it goes out of hand and literally does not stop for months.

[Hexxidecimal]

Uhm, because it gives the best rewards? You know, to stay competitive? How does that not fit

Exactly it gives the best rewards so you can stay competitive, hence it isn't trivial. Maybe I am just splitting hairs with the definition of words. Perhaps I should take it as you don't like to do menial work? Menial stuff can still be important but isn't much fun to do, meanwhile trivial means not of much worth.

And I do want to raid with my guild and kill stuff as fast as we can, so it's definatly meaningful to get that gear.

Exactly

Well, don't you see how many people in this thread want to tell me how I am supposed to have fun? That their way is the only way the game should be about.

Well instead of dissecting and discussing people would rather just tell you you are wrong. I mean I am guilty of doing it, but I at least try to understand the point being made first. That being said, suggestions for change go a long way to legitimizing your view point.

*shrug* at least during TBC I was happy grabbing the resist gear on my tank, had 1 of each set in my inventory. I can stand the odd little grind and shit, but
I don't like when it goes out of hand and literally does not stop for months.

Good news bad news. The AP grind does have an end in sight, and traits will play a far less important role in overall power than the relics themselves. Additionally getting what is the essential portion of your Artifact (the main traits and golden dragons) won't be that bad (if you are hardcore). If you include the 20 talent point sync, well I can't lie, and this is the bad news, it's going to be a huge grind. At least you may still be able to get good gear from the runs (titan forged stuff). It may be menial, but at least it comes with a reward.


Judging from this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...edule_Tall.jpg

You'll get all the gold traits by week 6 and I don't think this include doing constant dungeon runs. If you include that then it probably won't be months even.

[Deleted]

Exactly it gives the best rewards so you can stay competitive, hence it isn't trivial. Maybe I am just splitting hairs with the definition of words. Perhaps I should take it as you don't like to do menial work? Menial stuff can still be important but isn't much fun to do, meanwhile trivial means not of much worth.

Not sure this was too hard to understand, but i mean simple, boring, mindless, stuff where you can't fail...like world quests, raid finder, heroic dungeons, outgeared mythics and raids, etc.

I don't mind doing some of that, it can be fun while it's new, but months in I can't stand it.

If you include the 20 talent point sync, well I can't lie, and this is the bad news, it's going to be a huge grind. At least you may still be able to get good gear from the runs (titan forged stuff). It may be menial, but at least it comes with a reward.

How can I not include that? 15% damage is huge.

Judging from this
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...edule_Tall.jpg

You'll get all the gold traits by week 6 and I don't think this include doing constant dungeon runs. If you include that then it probably won't be months even.

There's more to the grind than gold traits. If it would stop there I would never complain.

[BananaHandsB]

My guild raids mythic, and i am looking forward to raiding as an Unholy DK.

What i am not looking forward to is the incredible grind to 850 ilvl and forced gathering/crafting combo spending vast sums of money on crafting and re-running the same mythic dungeons while grinding AP like crazy.

It feels so unflexible and grindy. I am forced not to spend more than 12 lvls of AP on my off-tank spec, so i cant competitively tank anything later (and tanking is what gets you groups and faster pulls).


Dont get me wrong, i dont want everything served to me. But is it really that hard to ask for crafting/crafting or gathering/gathering to be viable like it have been for over 10 years?

Is it too much to ask we are not forced to re-run dungeons until our hands fall off so we can enter Mythic raiding?

I welcome a challenge in skill. I am not sure i welcome a challenge in staying awake.

Simply don't raid mythic.

[Deleted]

Blizzard in a desperate attempt to keep subs is introducing grind mechanics in Legion to satisfy their paymasters.

But players are going to burn out at a faster rate and sub retention will be a big issue with Legion.

Stranslation:

Blizzard is making new content to the game because they want customers to buy the new expansion.

Not only do they want the money because hey... who doesnt. They are actually obligated by their shareholders to make as much profit as they possibly can.

Calling it desperate is not only wrong. Its just plain stupid.

Keep in mind i'm not trying to be demeaning. Its just an objectively stupid thing to write.

[Hexxidecimal]

Not sure this was too hard to understand, but i mean simple, boring, mindless, stuff where you can't fail...like world quests, raid finder, heroic dungeons, outgeared mythics and raids, etc.

I don't mind doing some of that, it can be fun while it's new, but months in I can't stand it.

It's only hard to understand when you the words don't mean what you are saying. Again, trival = not important or little worth. Menial = doesn't take skill or is boring. So I apologize if I was confused, but in my defense you word usage was off.

How can I not include that? 15% damage is huge.

I never said you couldn't...

There's more to the grind than gold traits. If it would stop there I would never complain.

That also only included doing ONLY dailies. But yeah, since you are including the 20 trait point sink then you have a lot of grinding ahead of you if you and your guild are doing competitive raiding. That wouldn't be fun for me either, or at least having to do it as quickly as possible.

But I have to say, I for one am very happy. I will have something to work on and work towards for a long time. It feels kinda EQ like to me almost. I won't burn myself out on it or grind real hard so it'll take a while. But I'll enjoy the consistent progress. Personally I think it's overall better for the game. The percentage of people doing competitive raiding is so tiny in comparison, I think overall it's a positive change, even if it does hurt your play style.

But then again maybe I am wrong and people will hate the slow constant progression. I suppose it can start to feel like a rat race.

[Aphrel]

My guild raids mythic, and i am looking forward to raiding as an Unholy DK.

What i am not looking forward to is the incredible grind to 850 ilvl and forced gathering/crafting combo spending vast sums of money on crafting and re-running the same mythic dungeons while grinding AP like crazy.

It feels so unflexible and grindy. I am forced not to spend more than 12 lvls of AP on my off-tank spec, so i cant competitively tank anything later (and tanking is what gets you groups and faster pulls).


Dont get me wrong, i dont want everything served to me. But is it really that hard to ask for crafting/crafting or gathering/gathering to be viable like it have been for over 10 years?

Is it too much to ask we are not forced to re-run dungeons until our hands fall off so we can enter Mythic raiding?

I welcome a challenge in skill. I am not sure i welcome a challenge in staying awake.

If your only playing 1 char its not gonna be stressfull for you at all.

[Deleted]

All these threads whining that WoW suddenly has too much content are fucking retarded. Unsub and fuck off, thanks.

This right here, no other reply necessary.

/thread

[Bullerick]

Complaining about too much content WHAT???