so how is ret dps in legion?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I haven't really been following ret, but I'm confused by lack of utility thing, I thought Ret had all those unique blessings now?

Are those not useful?

Yes, they aren't useful. The useful ones were taken away from Ret, while Prot and Holy got to keep them. Now you get to pick between Greater Blessing of Might and two worthless buffs.

If you want to bring a paladin for utility, you're going to bring a prot or holy paladin. Ret has mediocre dps and nothing that makes them worth bringing over any other dps.

[Schmilblick]

ST is mediocre, AoE is abysmal, utility is completely absent, but as an off-spec to a Prot Pally, it's fine.

How seriously is ST and Aoe are bad with all the tools he got ?

[Deleted]

I haven't really been following ret, but I'm confused by lack of utility thing, I thought Ret had all those unique blessings now?

Are those not useful?

yes they are people just like to bitch about everything ret probably has the most utility of all the dps specs.
People like to complain about ret because apparently it does low dmg that is not something you should look at playing beta, you should look if you like the feeling of the class without looking at numbers.
Numbers can and will be changed throughout an expansion.

[Smog]

How seriously is ST and Aoe are bad with all the tools he got ?

I genuinely have no idea what you just said.

[Mnesymne]

I know numbers are still being changed and stuff. But I tried putting Ret through the AskmrRobot sim with 840 pve gear, then i did the same for Windwalker Monk. And there was a 60k dps difference.

So if there are any tuning fixes coming i hope they will be supstantial...

[TEHPALLYTANK]

yes they are people just like to bitch about everything ret probably has the most utility of all the dps specs.
People like to complain about ret because apparently it does low dmg that is not something you should look at playing beta, you should look if you like the feeling of the class without looking at numbers.
Numbers can and will be changed throughout an expansion.

Have you read this forum at all? Half the complaints are about utility and how the spec plays now, not the numbers. Ret has garbage utility combined with mediocre damage, there is no reason to bring a Ret to a raid. If you need a paladin you're going to bring a holy or prot, because they actually have utility.

[Redblade]

Numbers can be fixed, and arguably they need to be.

Can but won't for 6 months if we go by past experiences.

But the fundamental play style is, in my opinion, really fun (as long as you have a decent amount of haste). The Greater Blessings, however, needs to be changed. Consecration should be baseline as well. Holy Wrath (Equality) should be changed, as outside of a very few select circumstances, it's completely useless.

Oh yeah, "Echo of the Highlord" just reeks of "I hate my job, see how you like this unimaginative trait".

Greater blessing equals 3x greater blessing of might, there is no other option. This just makes it pointless as you could just give the ret the dps increase and do away with them. Especially as you're not even placing it on your self as it's more beneficial to place it on others with higher dps, this in turn just creates a hassle of keeping track of those buffs.

As for the play style, I think it's fine with one exception, judgment debuff needs to be turned in to a buff. As a debuff it hurt us way to much on target swaps and gimps us for AOE.

At the end of the day though no changes matter unless we're given a niche to excel at and have our dps put on par.

[OrcsRLame]

I'd really like a factual answer to this question.

Not something shrouded in obscure things, or biased opinions from previous mistakes.
I'm not saying those things don't matter.

I'm saying what was the experience in beta? I REALLY wanna play Prot, But if Ret is shit, I'd rather play a Blood DK then Unholy. Soooo, HELP? Is it fun? Is the DPS at least respectable to PvE content (They're not so bad a smart RL would bench them)?

In my experience on beta, I absolutely trash the meters as ret, both single target and AoE. If I didn't come to these forums the possibility that ret is bad never would have entered my head. On AoE I lose to fire mages and havoc DHs fairly often. Against everything else I'm basically top all the time, aside from the occasional mythic 10 geared players I run into, and even then I beat them on single target and keep up on AoE most of the time. And that's at 849 ilvl.

[Wilian]

Tuning isn't done, play what you think is fun.

Launch in 3 days, tuning not yet done kek.

[Arkura]

Launch in 3 days, tuning not yet done kek.

.... You should pay more attention, tuning is never done.. In any game.

[Noxina]

Do you play in a top 100 raiding guild, that is chasing kills and progression? No? Play what ever you want. If you are, you will most likely level up 5-6 alts during the first week, to fill up 6 different raid groups a funel all gear to the mains, so you got two weeks to actually figure out what you want to play.

On the other hand, if you were that serious, you would most likely have done a ton of research and made up your mind ages ago.

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Launch in 3 days, tuning not yet done kek.

WoW have been online for many years, and they are still tuning it. top kek.

[marinos]

Launch in 3 days, tuning not yet done kek.

You must have missed the part where they said that tuning will continue till the week before EN opens.

[Varaben]

I'd really like a factual answer to this question.

Not something shrouded in obscure things, or biased opinions from previous mistakes.
I'm not saying those things don't matter.

I'm saying what was the experience in beta? I REALLY wanna play Prot, But if Ret is shit, I'd rather play a Blood DK then Unholy. Soooo, HELP? Is it fun? Is the DPS at least respectable to PvE content (They're not so bad a smart RL would bench them)?

I think we've already gotten those answers. You can look at sims and such and see that it's doing OK. People are responding because they don't like the playstyle (I don't like it either), but the OP specifically said he likes the way it plays.

It's middle of the pack now, certainly not the worst DPS-wise. Honestly you shouldn't pick a class on that anyway, as the numbers are tunable and in the end, if you're a good player, you'll be fine. So there's not really a "factual" answer other than that as far as I know.

[Redblade]

You must have missed the part where they said that tuning will continue till the week before EN opens.

And they said this in the past as well, again and again as a matter of fact, what makes this time any different?

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It's middle of the pack now, certainly not the worst DPS-wise.

This would be fine if the spec actually filled a niche of some sort. Like sustained AOE or single target burst and so on. Being in the middle of the pack in every aspect means you're just a mediocre dps that can be replaced by a class that coves a niche and as such becomes more valuable to the team.

[Saintlel]

Yes, they aren't useful. The useful ones were taken away from Ret, while Prot and Holy got to keep them. Now you get to pick between Greater Blessing of Might and two worthless buffs.

If you want to bring a paladin for utility, you're going to bring a prot or holy paladin. Ret has mediocre dps and nothing that makes them worth bringing over any other dps.

What utility does Prot bring over Ret, because the only thing I can think of is the talented magic immunity, and I guess Judgment of Light, but that's shared with Holy, and Sac (Which I want added back to ret T.T)

Ret has everything Prot has, including more with GBlessings, and even though I'd like to see them tuned to be more useful obviously, Ret has more utility on paper

[Taeldorian]

What utility does Prot bring over Ret, because the only thing I can think of is the talented magic immunity, and I guess Judgment of Light, but that's shared with Holy

Ret has everything Prot has, including more with GBlessings, and even though I'd like to see them tuned to be more useful obviously, Ret has more utility on paper

Ret aura, extra healing for the group (its actually decent}, Blessing of Sac, Aegis of Light, etc.

@TEHPALLYTANK As I said in the other thread, If they tune us to be on par with other melee there will be no reason not to bring a ret. Bop is still useful no matter what, Might is decent utility and Kings scales with ap so it will be better later on (most likely during EN}. Many other melee have shittier utility than we do, and many dont even have utility. This is only if we are tuned to be on par with other melee.

[Esotaric]

it's a tragic that enhancement shamans get to wield doomhammer and their spec are actually smooth in rotation as well as good dps. meanwhile ret.

FeelsBadMan

[marinos]

And they said this in the past as well, again and again as a matter of fact, what makes this time any different?

I never said that ret will be buffed or nerfed, all I said is that tuning hasnt finished so we will see changes. They may as well leave ret as it is but if they nerf/buff others that affects ret too. Again, I didnt say that ret will receive any buffs or nerfs, only that with tuning still in place changes are bound to happen on way or the other.

[Varaben]

And they said this in the past as well, again and again as a matter of fact, what makes this time any different?

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This would be fine if the spec actually filled a niche of some sort. Like sustained AOE or single target burst and so on. Being in the middle of the pack in every aspect means you're just a mediocre dps that can be replaced by a class that coves a niche and as such becomes more valuable to the team.

Fair enough. Ret certainly isn't a strong contender for AoE or cleave, and I don't think there's anything particularly great about their burst or sustained single target. They still have things like LOH and bubble which are useful.

[Taeldorian]

Fair enough. Ret certainly isn't a strong contender for AoE or cleave, and I don't think there's anything particularly great about their burst or sustained single target. They still have things like LOH and bubble which are useful.

Could easily be a strong contender for cleave and burst/sustained ST, just need numbers to be tweaked.