Sooo, where do Blood DK tanks lie now?

[Deleted]

The best tank for 5 mans and 5 man mythic + dungeons at the moment is prot warriors.

I strongly beleave that all tank classes are good. Some are easier to play then others and some have better tools but it all nails down to the player, if you bound to your class and if you enjoy playing it will your preformance be alot better then if you don't.

But then again don't get me wrong I hate the changes and what blood has become. They have destroyed the fun tank class DKs once was.
If you liked the old ways of blood tanking then reroling to DH is an easy choice to make. The gameplay feels alot like old Blood in a strange way and the mobility is great. Everything about the DH feels also fresh, downside will be that alot of kids will give the Ven DHs a bad reputation at the start and to mid expansion, like in the WoTLK expansion.

[Resurgo]

...

But then again don't get me wrong I hate the changes and what blood has become. They have destroyed the fun tank class DKs once was.
If you liked the old ways of blood tanking then reroling to DH is an easy choice to make. The gameplay feels alot like old Blood in a strange way and the mobility is great. Everything about the DH feels also fresh, downside will be that alot of kids will give the Ven DHs a bad reputation at the start and to mid expansion, like in the WoTLK expansion.

I've left the door open to several possibilities. During the last part of MoP, all of WoD, I kept two DK's at relative par with each other. I think even now, they might have 1 ilvl difference. Coming into Legion, I have a War, a DH, a Monk, and still the 2 DK's. I'm most familiar (if you call it that...) with DK's, but have pretty much left it up in the air for which tank is most advantageous for upcoming raids.

I lean towards the DH, but really don't want to cripple raid performance for a return to the old Blood. I suck at Monk right now, worst case, I can always take the Warrior since it's the most straight forward, and still useful tank.

edit: Who knows, 3% leech for the entire raid might be somewhat handy

[Deleted]

probably because necks and rings still have agi on them
and what are you talking about?
DS heals minimum 10% of health, legendary refunds it if it heals more than or equal to 10% of health, just tested on beta its permanent cost reduction
just wondering they forgot to update shackles when they buffed DS from 7to 10% minimum

I didn't go and test because I just assumed it worked how I stated. It seems weird it would just be a passive 25% refund on RP. Especially with how it's worded. I expect it to get changed soon. Although I hope it doesn't it's pretty nice how it is right now.

[Deleted]

I've left the door open to several possibilities. During the last part of MoP, all of WoD, I kept two DK's at relative par with each other. I think even now, they might have 1 ilvl difference. Coming into Legion, I have a War, a DH, a Monk, and still the 2 DK's. I'm most familiar (if you call it that...) with DK's, but have pretty much left it up in the air for which tank is most advantageous for upcoming raids.

I lean towards the DH, but really don't want to cripple raid performance for a return to the old Blood. I suck at Monk right now, worst case, I can always take the Warrior since it's the most straight forward, and still useful tank.

edit: Who knows, 3% leech for the entire raid might be somewhat handy

I'm with you part from I've always focused on one DK. The big reason why I preformed good with my DK was because I liked the gameplay and because of that was my preformance equal to my wingmate Protwarrior tank.

I still strongly beleave that you should first look at the gameplay is what you like instead of what minmaxers say is best. That is always changing. However removing alot of tools and changing the way DK's work is not going to change in a near future. So if you lean towards DH go for it. You wont cripple the raid. If you like the playstyle you will preform better.

[Resurgo]

It's something of a min/max, but it's also looking at future raid encounters and realizing we don't have a lot of answers for the various movement heavy encounters. I looked at the Xavius fight imagining a guild progressing on that. Random half of the raid trying to execute mechanics with a near immobile DK...

[Deleted]

Two of our legendary items got nerfed today. Service of Gorefiend reduces CD of VP by 2 seconds instead of 3 when HS is used and Shackles of Brynador now only refunds 15% RP when DS heals over 10% rather than 25%. Meaning it only refunds 6.75 RP. Which means you need to DS 8 times to get one free DS. For LEGENDARY items all our items have crap effects.

This is just laughable pathetic now. 3 weeks of nerfs. If we get another nerf or don't get some sort of buff before EN releases I'm just going to quit. It's not worth my time nor money playing a game which has this bad of a design team.

Still no blue response either to our massive amounts of nerfs and our low damage/low mobility playstyle. Guardian druids got answered straight away with their little nerf. I guess I should have guess DK's would be shit this expac when we only got a slightly higher res Acherus as our class hall.

[redfella]

Sad to see you go.

Not.

Every legendary but a few got nerfed, for good reason and every player worth their salt knew it was coming.

[Deleted]

Other classes have not been heavily nerfed as DK's have.

I can't see one redeemable quality to play a DK anymore. Our artifact traits are garbage. Our legendary items are bad or mediocre at best. Our single target DPS is crap tier and our AOE is mediocre. Mobility is god awful. When bosses start hiting harder no one will want a DK tank. They didn't want a DK tank back in MoP when our DS was a lot better and we had mitigation CD's baseline.

After playing some fights in legion beta, I can't imagine a raid wanting a DK for some of the current fights with the mobility needed for them.

[Coldvibes]

Other classes have not been heavily nerfed as DK's have.

I can't see one redeemable quality to play a DK anymore. Our artifact traits are garbage. Our legendary items are bad or mediocre at best. Our single target DPS is crap tier and our AOE is mediocre. Mobility is god awful. When bosses start hiting harder no one will want a DK tank. They didn't want a DK tank back in MoP when our DS was a lot better and we had mitigation CD's baseline.

After playing some fights in legion beta, I can't imagine a raid wanting a DK for some of the current fights with the mobility needed for them.

Artifact Traits are not garbage, whatsoever, SF (Frost) Apoc / Scourge of Worlds (UH) and UT/SS (Blood) are amazing traits.
Legendary items are pretty good, unlike other classes they have niche uses and are supposed to change the way you play and talent.
UH Single Target is pretty fucking good. AoE is solid for both specs.
Will agree mobility is pretty awful.

DKs aren't that bad, we're just not as -fortunate- as rogues and mages.

[redfella]

You don't seem to enjoy the class, so you should definately reroll. DKs are very viable, and while yes, we have it rougher in some encounters and easier in others, we are far from a liability, and good guilds won't be benching their Blood DKs.

We're still the 3rd best raid tank and imho one of the best M+ tanks as well.

Our guild for example will be going Druid + BDK and while around world top 100 isn't cutting edge, I believe we know what we are doing.

[Deleted]

This topic is about Blood DK's, not unholy or frost.

The only two good legendary items were Shackles and Service. I need to go test on beta since it hasn't been updated yet, but with 3 seconds CDR for each HS you had like a 10-30 second downtime between each VP, depending on if you spammed abilities or not. Which was filled with you UE. It actually got me thinking, maybe blizzard balanced around this playstyle because it was indeed quite strong. After this nerf you're maybe looking at around 30-50 second downtime between each VP. Shackles was just a passive RP refund. It only refunded like 10 RP. So every 4 DS gets you a free one. I didn't really think that was too strong. Apparently it was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Now you need to DS 8 times. I'm not sure if it's a passive now either, they might've fixed it so you need to heal for more than 10%.

As for our traits. UE is awful on ST but is good on AOE, it scales up really well. But on ST it is garbage. The affect only really becomes worth it on 4 or more targets. SS only absorbs an extra 8% whooo so intresting and good. So instead of absorbing 16% I'll absorb 24% wowee. Mediocre at best. UT got fixed so the leech is applied after the first heal from your DS. On progression your Blood shield won't be up for that long either. It will usually be insta removed by the bosses next melee attack.

All Blood DK talents are set in stone for the most part. Remember when they said they wanted to give DK's a reason to change talents hahahaha. At least before I'd use defile while gearing and BoS at BiS now there is little to no reason to change talents.

Why arn't we as good as rogues or mages. They've been pretty good for the past few expacs. Frost DK has been perfoming sub optimally for ages. I can't remember a time it was really good. Well there was the first two days of HFC but blizz put a stop to dk's topping the metres instantly.

[redfella]

Imo the power of the RP refund is so you DS a bit more often vs. thinking about fully free DS. It's good for the constant damage intake raid model.

I think VP is still damn strong too, for much the same reason, I like medium powered relatively low CDs vs big long CDs.

[Freddiee]

tbh most of these nerfs were expected although they have hit us a bit hard. Doesnt change the fact that bdk are really enjoyable, and our lack of movement are greatly exaggerated imo. We're fine.

Still rolling bdk, will still kick ass doing it.

[Leyre]

We're still the 3rd best raid tank

You only need 2 tanks per raid

[Freddiee]

You only need 2 tanks per raid

When it comes down to it player skill and their capabilities with the class they play mean the most anyway.
I'd reckon every single raid leader would rather have a brilliant BDK player, than a subpar warrior simple because when numbercrunching the warrior "should" perform better.

[Halwyn]

Hello, Death Knights. Decided to not bother you with creating additional topic, so I'll ask right away.
My raidleader wants me to have a BDK alt when we'll get to the raiding again, only if to cheese some bosses with Gorefiend's Grasp (hate you Blizzard) if the strategies like that will come up. While I found "new" Death Strike with not so much difference from WoD version, the lack of vengeance buff makes me unable to predict a healing amount with Tell Me When (usually there was LK picture with Veng percentage). Any way I can do that now with TMW, do I need something different like the old Blood Shield Tracker, or I'll just end up developing a feeling for it in time without the need of addons?

[Freedom]

After getting my BITCH I EAT PEOPLE WA for Consumption working, I don't really care if Warriors are better tanks, or that I have more experience as a Warrior than DK. I'm just happy as is. At least Frost and to a bigger extent UH share the same stat priority as Blood does, which isn't the case for Fury and Prot, even if Arms and Prot share.

On topic, I still have the old Blood Shield Tracker. In fact, it's been updated, and is 7.0.3 compatible.

[Saybel]

After getting my BITCH I EAT PEOPLE WA for Consumption working, I don't really care if Warriors are better tanks, or that I have more experience as a Warrior than DK.

I fucking love TFS
I need this.

[redfella]

You only need 2 tanks per raid

We have 3, cos hardware may break or irl crisis might happen. Too big a risk to cripple progression with having just 2.

[Freedom]

I fucking love TFS
I need this.

If you tell me a website where I can host the .ogg for free I will post the code and file link. The most annoying part was cropping the original sound just right so I didn't get any of Sir Integra's preceding line.

Edit: I posted a thread with a link to the .ogg, Saybel.