PvP Stat Weights.

[Aherooffools]

So we are all aware by now that when you queue into instanced PvP, you are given a set amount of secondary stats that are pre-determined by the designers. For some players, they won't even notice a difference, but for players like me who are always trying to find ways to fine-tune and Min-Max my damage and healing, I find it a bit irritating to be locked into specific stats with no control over them.

For example, I've always toyed around with a little more haste-heavy feral to fit my play style, and now I notice that my Vengeance DH is locked only to Crit with no way to boost my haste or mastery like I need. Now, while I don't mind seeing big numbers pop off of my Soul Cleave, I much rather be able to carry a flag effectively since most of my toolkit is based off of Haste and Mastery.

Just my thoughts and opinion. I personally prefer to distribute secondary stats the way I choose to. This won't really stop me from PvPing, but more annoy me.

Disclaimer: This has NOTHING to do with 100 VS. 110, new talents, PvP talents, artifacts, or current talents. This is strictly about stat weights and your thoughts on it.

[solarfallz]

Welcome to Legion PVP, where the fun is made-up and the stats don't matter.

[Rolex Snob]

Welcome to Legion PVP, where the fun is made-up and the stats don't matter.

Is there any information on how much a certain item level gets boosted?

Is there a big difference between my fresh boosted 100 640 ilvl green character and one with full warmongers 710? I hear mixed answers on this...

[Seneca]

Is there any information on how much a certain item level gets boosted?

Is there a big difference between my fresh boosted 100 640 ilvl green character and one with full warmongers 710? I hear mixed answers on this...

AFAIK, as of now, if your average IL is <700, it is boosted up to 700 in PvP instances, if it is higher than 700, you gan 0,1% more stats for every 1 IL.

So with 710 you should have 1% more stats than another played with 700 (or lower than 700 which got boosted to 700) IL.


So:

0-700 IL = 700IL, base PvP stats
710 IL = +101% of base PvP stats
800 IL = 110% of base PvP stats

And so on.


It is all a mess becaue many PvP things are not documented, many others are documented but are wrong and/or bugged (noone knows lol).


So we might guess most things based on what some pvp dev might have said a few month ago for example, some others could be reported by players though testing but are not not necessarily official and so on. God help us.

[squid]

AFAIK, as of now, if your average IL is <700, it is boosted up to 700 in PvP instances, if it is higher than 700, you gan 0,1% more stats for every 1 IL.

So with 710 you should have 1% more stats than another played with 700 (or lower than 700 which got boosted to 700) IL.


So:

0-700 IL = 700IL, base PvP stats
710 IL = +101% of base PvP stats
800 IL = 110% of base PvP stats

And so on.

This is correct, but you probably also want to consult this: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20747314610 for modifiers to each spec.

As for the people complaining about how things go undocumented/are obscure, I want to point out that obsessing over these stats and modifiers doesn't benefit you, and you will lose sight of the forest for the trees. Since you can't play around them in any special way, just leave them under the hood and practice your gameplay rather than worrying about whether your firemage has 40% crit with fireball or 30, you will see more improvement.

[Seneca]

This is correct, but you probably also want to consult this: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20747314610 for modifiers to each spec.

As for the people complaining about how things go undocumented/are obscure, I want to point out that obsessing over these stats and modifiers doesn't benefit you, and you will lose sight of the forest for the trees. Since you can't play around them in any special way, just leave them under the hood and practice your gameplay rather than worrying about whether your firemage has 40% crit with fireball or 30, you will see more improvement.

The point is that there might be many bugs and we don't even know it.

For example a few shamans in the official forum claimed that

"Lava Bursts procced from Elemental Overload deal 60% damage in PvP (down from 75%)"

is wrong, most of the time it hits for 20%, some other times for 84% 0o.

It is all a mess really.

Ignore pain too, was listed as 60%, but it seems it absorbed 40%, now it says 75% but seems to be 60% in game.

We do not even know if we are supposed to overwhelm them with bug reports or not.

Go figure.

[squid]

Right, and bugs should be reported, but at the end of the day, I am still going to lava burst exactly the same way. I am still going to use Ignore Pain for survivability whether it is 40, 60, or 75%, and that's what I was talking about when I said you can't really play around it.

[Kagthul]

Right, and bugs should be reported, but at the end of the day, I am still going to lava burst exactly the same way. I am still going to use Ignore Pain for survivability whether it is 40, 60, or 75%, and that's what I was talking about when I said you can't really play around it.

But without proper documentation, we cant know if it is working right or not, and Blizzard sure as hell doesn't.

[Seneca]

Right, and bugs should be reported, but at the end of the day, I am still going to lava burst exactly the same way.

If I know my Lava Burst hits 1/2 of a Lightning Bolt rather than the expected 3/2, I'm not going to use Lava Burst to begin with.

If I know my Lava Burst hits 1/2 of a Lightning Bolt, I'm not going to spend talent points which enhance Lava Burst, considering their effectiveness is severely reduced.


I don't even play an elemental shaman mind you, just saying.


We are not talking about a 5% difference, we are talking about secondaries Lava Bursts doing 20% rather than 75%, and sometimes 85% for whatever reason and, for clarity, everything should be documented, even if we are talking about 1% differences.

[Professor Expert]

So we are all aware by now that when you queue into instanced PvP, you are given a set amount of secondary stats that are pre-determined by the designers. For some players, they won't even notice a difference, but for players like me who are always trying to find ways to fine-tune and Min-Max my damage and healing, I find it a bit irritating to be locked into specific stats with no control over them.

For example, I've always toyed around with a little more haste-heavy feral to fit my play style, and now I notice that my Vengeance DH is locked only to Crit with no way to boost my haste or mastery like I need. Now, while I don't mind seeing big numbers pop off of my Soul Cleave, I much rather be able to carry a flag effectively since most of my toolkit is based off of Haste and Mastery.

Just my thoughts and opinion. I personally prefer to distribute secondary stats the way I choose to. This won't really stop me from PvPing, but more annoy me.

Disclaimer: This has NOTHING to do with 100 VS. 110, new talents, PvP talents, artifacts, or current talents. This is strictly about stat weights and your thoughts on it.

The sad truth is that stats really don't matter anymore. I don't even know why they bother listing strength, agility, intellect on items anymore. Just have "attack power" and "defense power" and forget about the other junk...it's like they're pretending there's still any distinction among any of the primary stats or "armor".

Mathematically, the net damage you deal is going to be roughly the same no matter what combination of stats you choose, so if one "feels" better to you then run with it.

For me personally, I'm going to say that overall versatility is the way to go whenever you are given a stat preference, because it applies to all damage, all healing and includes a damage reduction component. It's hands-down the best stat for pvp, period.

Some classes may have abilities that scale up an ability like haste or crit, and for those classes, maybe consider more haste or crit. I play as enhancement shaman and haste is a solid stat for us, but in pvp, it's not really better than versatility. Theoretical max DPS is not possible in a fluid environment like pvp, where you will be interrupted by CCs frequently.

[Turtlewithnoshell]

But without proper documentation, we cant know if it is working right or not, and Blizzard sure as hell doesn't.

Keep in mind they are fixing bugs constantly, not every bug gets hotfixed right away. Many bugs will be fixed with release. (and many more released xD)

[BannedForViews]

AFAIK, as of now, if your average IL is <700, it is boosted up to 700 in PvP instances, if it is higher than 700, you gan 0,1% more stats for every 1 IL.

So with 710 you should have 1% more stats than another played with 700 (or lower than 700 which got boosted to 700) IL.


So:

0-700 IL = 700IL, base PvP stats
710 IL = +101% of base PvP stats
800 IL = 110% of base PvP stats

And so on.


It is all a mess becaue many PvP things are not documented, many others are documented but are wrong and/or bugged (noone knows lol).


So we might guess most things based on what some pvp dev might have said a few month ago for example, some others could be reported by players though testing but are not not necessarily official and so on. God help us.

I think they said this originally but I saw one of the Q&A videos which made it sound like they caved a bit on that. I remember them saying it in WoD 740 over 700 would be 40% stronger, but now it would only be 8% stronger, so I think the value is actually twice what you said in your response. It is stil not very large, that is for sure.

- - - Updated - - -

So we are all aware by now that when you queue into instanced PvP, you are given a set amount of secondary stats that are pre-determined by the designers. For some players, they won't even notice a difference, but for players like me who are always trying to find ways to fine-tune and Min-Max my damage and healing, I find it a bit irritating to be locked into specific stats with no control over them.

For example, I've always toyed around with a little more haste-heavy feral to fit my play style, and now I notice that my Vengeance DH is locked only to Crit with no way to boost my haste or mastery like I need. Now, while I don't mind seeing big numbers pop off of my Soul Cleave, I much rather be able to carry a flag effectively since most of my toolkit is based off of Haste and Mastery.

Just my thoughts and opinion. I personally prefer to distribute secondary stats the way I choose to. This won't really stop me from PvPing, but more annoy me.

Disclaimer: This has NOTHING to do with 100 VS. 110, new talents, PvP talents, artifacts, or current talents. This is strictly about stat weights and your thoughts on it.

I enjoy the fact that theyd id this, I think it has the ability to turn pvp into more skill based encounters instead of gear based. Noticed I said more, and I also readily admit it depends on how well they balance the templates, but it is still already better off than previous iterations.

My only complaint would be similar to yours. I would feel better if they said "here is your stat allocation, and here are the ranges we will allow you to make certain stats in. Now go ahead and adjust them to what you find to be most beneficial. Then we have extreme leeway in theory crafting specs while still having "balance" of stat points and damage values. It's just really frustrating to see a class like disc where the mastery value is not terribly valuable but something like haste or crit would go a lot farther in my opinion. But they tell me how much mastery I have to have so I'm stuck with it.

[Rumstein]

I have a google docs spreadsheet that includes all stat and spell weightings for all classes. Google Docs

I like that the stats are relatively independent of gear. Someone with +20 ilvls on you will only have 2% more stats, meaning fights will be more skill/comp based.

What I am not a fan of is the stat allocations. What if I want haste of mastery?

I feel blizzard should have gone the GW2 pvp route with this - You can get a trinket that is only usable in PvP from a vendor, which has the stat allocations pre-assigned, with differing allotments for differing roles (e.g. tanks get 0 versatility, healers have 75% damage). Then you have the normal stat makeup - so a dps class can get their 400% secondary stats allocated in different ways. Instead of an Spriest being pigeonholed into 75/75/100/150% Crit/mastery/haste/versatility respectively, you could choose a trinket with 125/75/150/50% or other predetermined stats.