[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Gaidax]

Yes, being bad results in DPS loss. WTF Blizz?

[klogaroth]

I guess the question that people have when it comes to pets is what was so bad about the cast time of summoning the pet be the penalty for needing to summon your pet.

When you had the option of a cast time or spending resources on an instant cast people didn't seem to mind. You were spending shards/embers/fury, but you got something out of it, or you had a cast time that took you out of the fight for longer, but when you got back in the fight you had more primary resources to spend.

It's not so bad for destro, destro can ramp up pretty quickly. I know this is the destro thread, but re-summoning pets is not purely a destro mechanic. If it was then the current costs would probably be fine.
I think the thing that people are taking issue with is when additional penalties for if everything goes wrong are being added to specs that already have long ramp up times.

It's also not really that big a deal. Being combat ressed isn't, or shouldn't be, a regular thing. It's just one of many very small issues that can sometimes add up, and it's one of the small issues that would on the surface seem to have a few relatively simple ways to change it if that's the direction that was chosen.

[Uzkin]

Heh. So many butthurt ppl either trolling or displaying severe lack of reading comprehension. But let me try to dispel your confusion by using very simple words and short sentences:
- I didn't claim that being bad shouldn't result in dps loss
- I didn't claim that warlocks should be able to ignore every raid mechanic without dps loss
- I didn't claim that destro suffers from brez recovery more than the other WARLOCK specs
Hope this helps! If you are still confused please just ask and I can try to explain once more, like I would to a baby <3

[Gaidax]

Your claim is pretty absurd because:

a. You are literally nitpicking
b. While you may need to resummon demon, we also retain soul shards on death, while most other similar resources reset.

Many non-warlock specs also get screwed by dying. Some dodge this bullet, but many do not.

[blackops2008]

Seems blizz wants us to use as much incinerate possible, they buffed incinerate again yesterday ( from 190% to 210% spell power ). Incinerate dmg done in the fights is close to immolate dmg done even with roaring blaze, and ya i know that at 110 immolate will get a big boost from artifact weapons.

For now backdraft is the best talent to pick without relics ( excluding add heavy fights that shadowburn is useful )

We need CB buffs imho

[Gaidax]

Destruction does not NEED anything besides improvement to short term burst AoE, which is its only major weakness now.

As for Backdraft, I sure hope it will end up being better pick than RB with all the changes, because in my opinion RB is an abomination that should not exist for Destruction.

[urdasergiu]

Incinerate will hit soon as hard as a shit rng cb :P

[Deleted]

Destruction does not NEED anything besides improvement to short term burst AoE, which is its only major weakness now.

As for Backdraft, I sure hope it will end up being better pick than RB with all the changes, because in my opinion RB is an abomination that should not exist for Destruction.

I have very high respect for you Gaidax for keeping up the faith in Destro and defending it when people make outrageous claims. So I was all the more disappointed by your statement above... Just because you don't like RB, it doesn't make it an abomination. I actually quite liked playing with RB when it was feasible. It gave you something *more* over the usual rotation which is always nice. My personal opinion is that giving destro something that spurs at least somewhat of a decision making process while fighting was also really cool, and RB was exactly that.

Edit: Just to make my point clearer. Backdraft makes one spell of the existing rotation a bit faster, but actually does not change anything in your rotation.

[cago]

They should buff portal dmg cuz thats the only thing thats havoc free, and it would be much easier for them to balance things. Instead for some reason they buff incinerate which also boost our havoc dmg even tho its strong as fck already...

[Gaidax]

I have very high respect for you Gaidax for keeping up the faith in Destro and defending it when people make outrageous claims. So I was all the more disappointed by your statement above... Just because you don't like RB, it doesn't make it an abomination. I actually quite liked playing with RB when it was feasible. It gave you something *more* over the usual rotation which is always nice. My personal opinion is that giving destro something that spurs at least somewhat of a decision making process while fighting was also really cool, and RB was exactly that.

Edit: Just to make my point clearer. Backdraft makes one spell of the existing rotation a bit faster, but actually does not change anything in your rotation.

Well that's why I say my opinion, I have my preferences as well and I just find RB to contradict my "headcanon" of Destruction being the direct damage nuker spec. I believe having Destruction revolve around DoT to be a wrong direction for it.

But on the other hand, it's easy to acknowledge that what I like or think may not be shared by many people. For me it's not that Backdraft is somehow more exciting (although I like how it artificially speeds up the gameplay), but RB is out of place.

[blackops2008]

backdraft changes the rotation abit situationally since using 2 conflagrate in a row or using a conflag without casting chaosbolt/incinerate is a dps loss.

[Deleted]

Hey guys how are you guys doing

Is backdraft better than roaring blaze now?

[Bjarkan]

Well that's why I say my opinion, I have my preferences as well and I just find RB to contradict my "headcanon" of Destruction being the direct damage nuker spec. I believe having Destruction revolve around DoT to be a wrong direction for it.

But on the other hand, it's easy to acknowledge that what I like or think may not be shared by many people. For me it's not that Backdraft is somehow more exciting (although I like how it artificially speeds up the gameplay), but RB is out of place.

Trully is all about opinions, and even with maths, we always decide by preferences... Dont get me wrong, i respect all opinions, your as well, but to me RB is quite a good talent to manage our resourse for miniburst... We cant use Conflagrate on CD anymore, so this mean less flow of SS, what mean less CB, but we can plan ahead seeing the reamining time of RB and how much SS we had - would had - by the time we have to re-apply RB.

I been playing like this for all the pre-patch, and i have to say, the only thing i feel off is the 3s of casting CB (as i always had said, i run with Mana Tap for miniburst phase propourse), even with my high haste (2.47s of cast time), and that long travel time, really get my nerves somethings, but nothing i cant get use to it.

Hey guys how are you guys doing

Is backdraft better than roaring blaze now?

Well, depends to who you ask, and for what you want it... I still find RB more relaible, as SS flow is still too low in pre-patch (i only find BD usefull for CD chain).

[Felpacino]

Why are Mana Tap and Havoc have GCDs? It makes no sense. Mana Tap is already a shit talent and Havoc lasts for 8 secs. If it has 1.5 secs GCD, then why not make it last 6.5 secs and no GCD? Fire Blast has no GCD and those have. WTF?

[striderZA]

Why are Mana Tap and Havoc have GCDs? It makes no sense. Mana Tap is already a shit talent and Havoc lasts for 8 secs. If it has 1.5 secs GCD, then why not make it last 6.5 secs and no GCD? Fire Blast has no GCD and those have. WTF?

How are either of those in any way similar to Fire Blast? Extending that logic we can go on and ask why do any instant cast spells even have GCDs.

[Felpacino]

How are either of those in any way similar to Fire Blast? Extending that logic we can go on and ask why do any instant cast spells even have GCDs.

Fire Blast had GCDs and now Fire Mages can chain their abilities more subtlely. What can we do? Mana Tap, Havoc, then Shadowburn. 3 secs passed and we could only land 1 SB while they can land 4 Fire Blasts in that period. Not that they would do that, because they'll cast Pyroblast but look. 4 FBs, 4 Pyros in 6 secs and we can land 3 SBs in 6 secs. Does that look fair?

Even Dark Soul didn't have GCD, while that shitty Mana Tap has GCD.

[Bjarkan]

Why are Mana Tap and Havoc have GCDs? It makes no sense. Mana Tap is already a shit talent and Havoc lasts for 8 secs. If it has 1.5 secs GCD, then why not make it last 6.5 secs and no GCD? Fire Blast has no GCD and those have. WTF?

No GCD and can be cast while you are casting... So Having a stack of HS, you can "pre-cast" another Fireball, using Fire Blast near to the end of the cast, and having a 3 spell chains, two of them with high crit rate, and the last one been always crit.

Maybe GCD in Havok is for balance our Cleave potential, because now, without charge system, Havok is quite OP. In Mana Tap, i dont find problem with it, pre-casting it, and re-applying it on filler spot (I dont cast Incinerate that much anyway).

[Scroff]

Hey guys how are you guys doing

Is backdraft better than roaring blaze now?

I simmed Backdraft vs Roaring Blaze on today's simcraft build and Backdraft was ~2% better on the Patchwerk fight setting with my 723 ilvl gear (only had a couple of weeks gearing up since returning to warlock in the pre-patch)

Then I went to do some invasions to see how it played out in practice and the faster casts were nice but if you had to move just after Conflaging then of course you lost the benefit

[Puupi]

What's the recommended leveling pattern for the destruction artifact?

[Baconeggcheese]

Well that's why I say my opinion, I have my preferences as well and I just find RB to contradict my "headcanon" of Destruction being the direct damage nuker spec. I believe having Destruction revolve around DoT to be a wrong direction for it.

Woulda been more fun / fitting if it like, made conflag consume the remaining dmg of immolate for a boost or sumpin similar to how it used to in the past.

RB fits kind of awkwardly in the spec, and how it fits changes based on haste. It's actually going to be a nightmare for most players to use. Maybe a big part of the reason for the nerf, making it only a few % increase over backdraft (before the tier bonus anyway).

- - - Updated - - -

What's the recommended leveling pattern for the destruction artifact?

That's still up for debate, though its pretty unanimous that you go for impish incineration and burning hunger first.