Germany: Mayor fires refugee project intern for wearing headscarf

[ranzino]

Once again, you don't seem to understand what the word "necessary actually means.

"required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential."

Is the law actually needed? Nope, it's wanted (by some).

No, wearing a head scarf has never caused any harm in the history of humanity, not one fucking time. Saying that Muslims oppress women is not the same as a head scarf causing harm. So, please feel free to cite a single example where wearing a head scarf caused harm to others.

heasdscarf is a clear and present sign the wearer has not the personal qualification to serve as a representative, because she feels her religion trumps state. otherwise she would leave her religion and its rules outside, all urge to wear headscarf included.

[Machismo]

A state being non-secular ahs been show to do harm in the past.
Thus this law is necessary.

First off, you can have a secular nation without forcing people to not wear clothing.

Secondly, once again, you do not seem to understand the definition of the word. Just because the potential exists for someone to cause harm, does not mean you restrict the freedoms of everyone, even those whom are not causing any harm whatsoever.

So please tell me, when has wearing a head scarf ever harmed another human being?

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heasdscarf is a clear and present sign the wearer has not the personal qualification to serve as a representative, because she feels her religion trumps state. otherwise she would leave her religion and its rules outside, all urge to wear headscarf included.

That's simply not true at all. That's like saying someone who wears a shirt with a video game character on it is not qualified to serve as a representative, because they feel video games trump the state. The same can be said for a dress with flowers on it. Are flowers more important than the state?

Clearly, everyone needs to dress exactly the same, so as not to put their personality above the state. Shall we dress everyone like they do in Equilibrium?

[Renyo]

That's simply not true at all. That's like saying someone who wears a shirt with a video game character on it is not qualified to serve as a representative, because they feel video games trump the state. The same can be said for a dress with flowers on it. Are flowers more important than the state?

Clearly, everyone needs to dress exactly the same, so as not to put their personality above the state. Shall we dress everyone like they do in Equilibrium?

For some representatives of the state, like judges or the police, there are very strict dress codes. A judge and policeman cannot wear clothing with flowers on it, they can wear that under their uniform. The thing is that it is for cities to decide how strict they interpret these laws. In some it is no problem to wear a headscarf if you represent the city in your job, in some it is.
Also, the intern has got another internship and there is still a discussion whether this was according to the laws or not. I would think it may be too strict if she just has an internship and is doing a project for the city.

[Machismo]

For some representatives of the state, like judges or the police, there are very strict dress codes. A judge and policeman cannot wear clothing with flowers on it, they can wear that under their uniform. The thing is that it is for cities to decide how strict they interpret these laws. In some it is no problem to wear a headscarf if you represent the city in your job, in some it is.
Also, the intern has got another internship and there is still a discussion whether this was according to the laws or not. I would think it may be too strict if she just has an internship and is doing a project for the city.

So why not demand that everyone dress in a specific uniform. We don't want their individuality to come out when acting as part of the state. Clearly, everyone needs to wear drab gray... and nothing that displays their form.

[ranzino]

That's simply not true at all. That's like saying someone who wears a shirt with a video game character on it is not qualified to serve as a representative, because they feel video games trump the state. The same can be said for a dress with flowers on it. Are flowers more important than the state?

Clearly, everyone needs to dress exactly the same, so as not to put their personality above the state. Shall we dress everyone like they do in Equilibrium?

First off: no video character t-shirts in governments office, it's unprofessional towards customers. such dress code is not about believe or religion, it's common sense: a town hall is not BlizzCon.

And do flowers carry a special meaning ? No ? silly you.

[Machismo]

First off: no video character t-shirts in governments office, it's unprofessional towards customers. such dress code is not about believe or religion, it's common sense: a town hall ist not BlizzCon.

And do flowers carry a special meaning ? No ? silly you.

Then clearly you support everyone wearing the exact same uniform, and it must not be form fitting, and cannot display any personality whatsoever. This must be for all representatives of the state.

Flowers don't carry a special meaning to you, but they may to someone else. We need to fucking ban it.

[ranzino]

Then clearly you support everyone wearing the exact same uniform, and it must not be form fitting, and cannot display any personality whatsoever. This must be for all representatives of the state.

Flowers don't carry a special meaning to you, but they may to someone else. We need to fucking ban it.

now you are overreacting. there is surely a dress code for representatives, but usually not uniform. for men a suit in not so gaudy colors, women's attire is more varied. Form fitting ? as much as you like, but women pls keep your wonderfull curves in check.

What means "display my personality" for you ? if it's about your haircut ? we are cool with that, as long as the dye doesnt form the serbian flag or something else violating neutrality. your piercings ? perhaps not 10 pieces everywhere in your face while in direct contact with customers, but that's common rule in official affairs.
anything else ? tell us, we'll sort it out

[PACOX]

This is how you let the terrorist win, ridiculous acts of paranoia and bigotry.

[Renyo]

So why not demand that everyone dress in a specific uniform. We don't want their individuality to come out when acting as part of the state. Clearly, everyone needs to wear drab gray... and nothing that displays their form.

We have specific uniforms for judges and policemen. Like I said, in this case I would say it was an overreaction by the mayor. She is just an intern working on a project, not a high official representative of the state.
I still think that it is correct to have some kind of dress codes. There needs to be a balance between people wearing provocative slogans like "ACAB" etc in their office and just the same grey thing for everyone. There should be, and currently are, different rules for judges and 'simple' workers of the cities.

[Machismo]

now you are overreacting. there is surely a dress code for representatives, but usually not uniform. for men a suit in not so gaudy colors, women's attire is more varied. Form fitting ? as much as you like, but women pls keep your wonderfull curves in check.

What means "display my personality" for you ? if it's about your haircut ? we are cool with that, as long as the dye doesnt form the serbian flag or something else violating neutrality. your piercings ? perhaps not 10 pieces everywhere in your face while in direct contact with customers, but that's common rule in official affairs.
anything else ? tell us, we'll sort it out

I'm not overreacting at all. We should definitely make sure to remove all individuality from those working for the "state." We should also make sure they wear their state emblem on their sleeve, just to make sure everyone knows who they represent. It will be a constant reminder of the government.

[ranzino]

We have specific uniforms for judges and policemen. Like I said, in this case I would say it was an overreaction by the mayor. She is just an intern working on a project, not a high official representative of the state.
....

for clarification: the project would entail contact to customers, not hours upon hours "behind the scenes" or in archive only. And the woman in question refused to remove headscarf while in presence of men. as a representative the latter is very disturbing to say the least. government cannot violate equality in such open manner. for no reasons at all.

[Machismo]

We have specific uniforms for judges and policemen. Like I said, in this case I would say it was an overreaction by the mayor. She is just an intern working on a project, not a high official representative of the state.
I still think that it is correct to have some kind of dress codes. There needs to be a balance between people wearing provocative slogans like "ACAB" etc in their office and just the same grey thing for everyone. There should be, and currently are, different rules for judges and 'simple' workers of the cities.

EVERYONE needs specific uniforms. We can't have individuality infringing upon the representatives of the state.

[ranzino]

I'm not overreacting at all. We should definitely make sure to remove all individuality from those working for the "state." We should also make sure they wear their state emblem on their sleeve, just to make sure everyone knows who they represent. It will be a constant reminder of the government.

So what is the individuality you want to display ? besides being member of party X or organisation Y or against/for "this and that", you are usually free here.
for state emblem: usually on police uniforms or on the wall, no need to put it on everybody's sleeves.

[brimdog]

people are fucking dumb...they were dumb 5000 years ago and they'll be dumb 5000 years from now
because people are just fucking dumb
not only are they arguing over this issue in Germany, they're arguing about the idea of arguing about it on the internet
nothing better to do i suppose...cause people are fucking dumb

[Acidbaron]

It's in general in most european countries not allowed to carry or wear visible signs of a religion in state buildings. Same reason you don't see crosses, if you think it's nations just waking up that's just one more sign of how little you are tied to reality and how much time you spend in an echo chamber.

[Noradin]

It's in general in most european countries not allowed to carry or wear visible signs of a religion in state buildings.

It is not allowed for the representatives of the state, it is perfectly alright for private citizens to wear them.

[Themius]

The german government is still SECULAR. Which part of it doesnt fit in your brain ?
he can be jew with yarmulke any other day in a different job, but not in a town hall in Brandenburg or Berlin or sit as a judge anywhere in germany. And it is part of his contract to leave his religion out of office, moreso not display any affinity. but if his religion is so ultraimportant he has to display it: trust me, he is the wrong person for the job, for he has to "forget" any rules or morale his religion may have on other citizens as soon he enters an office building.

If he is jewish regardless how does his wearing shilocks in anyway going to affect his job? "He has curly side hairs, nooo!"

Wearing them doesn't mean you're bringing religion into your job...

[ranzino]

If he is jewish regardless how does his wearing shilocks in anyway going to affect his job? "He has curly side hairs, nooo!"

Wearing them doesn't mean you're bringing religion into your job...

Ok, german authorities cannot regulate hair, but can regulate clothing. and be assured authorities will make sure he knows the concept of secularism and is fired the second he forgets. you know by now the woman in question was stubborn enough to want to violate our equality artice just for her religion.

[Themius]

Ok, german authorities cannot regulate hair, but can regulate clothing. and be assured authorities will make sure he knows the concept of secularism and is fired the second he forgets. you know by now the woman in question was stubborn enough to want to violate our equality artice just for her religion.

Why can't they regulate his hair, it's a particular style among some jewish groups? Just because you wear a head covering (which btw jewish women also wear, and some christians too) doesn't mean you can't behave secular.

Frankly this whole thing sounds like that stupid ass comment trump made about the Mexican judge, how he can't judge at all because he is Mexican, even though he's from America.

[ranzino]

Just because you wear a head covering (which btw jewish women also wear, and some christians too) doesn't mean you can't behave secular.
.....

Sorry, but such headwear IS a sign you are not so commited to secularism as you should. otherwise you would know the state is void of any display of religion and its representatives too.

we are repeating the stuff now for some times; which part of the easy concept is so utter alien to you ?