Not sure which spec to focus on first for artifact weapon!

[Deleted]

I am sorry to inform you, outlaw fans, but assassination will be better. More to the subject on Monday. When you receive the new warmly welcome buffs to it. And no I hope you stay outlaw. Or you are another people just going the spec of the day, not enjoying the game at all.
You should know and remember two things:

1) Nothing is forever.
2) Try having some fun instead of jumping on each other.

Good luck!

[elfporn]

I am sorry to inform you, outlaw fans, but assassination will be better. More to the subject on Monday. When you receive the new warmly welcome buffs to it. And no I hope you stay outlaw. Or you are another people just going the spec of the day, not enjoying the game at all.
You should know and remember two things:

1) Nothing is forever.
2) Try having some fun instead of jumping on each other.

Good luck!

Thank you for your "informed" opinion.

[xero93]

I am sorry to inform you, outlaw fans, but assassination will be better. More to the subject on Monday. When you receive the new warmly welcome buffs to it. And no I hope you stay outlaw. Or you are another people just going the spec of the day, not enjoying the game at all.
You should know and remember two things:

1) Nothing is forever.
2) Try having some fun instead of jumping on each other.

Good luck!

High end raiders play the best spec, playing a shit spec because you find it fun gets you benched in progression minded guilds. So ofc we're going to play "the spec of the day" Honestly why even post in threads about theorycrafting with that attitude?

[Katchii]

High end raiders play the best spec, playing a shit spec because you find it fun gets you benched in progression minded guilds. So ofc we're going to play "the spec of the day" Honestly why even post in threads about theorycrafting with that attitude?

Pretty sure that he's just reminding everyone that it's a game and the purpose is to enjoy yourself. Raiding and progression isn't everything so playing the "spec of the day" while it has a purpose in those areas, should not be the defining characteristic of whether you enjoy the class.

That said, it is a very valid question in regards to which artifact weapon should you focus on since you can therefore really only focus on one spec at a time. If the "spec of the day" changes and you focused on yesterdays spec...you're SOL now. So focusing on the most competitive spec that you enjoy playing is probably the safest option to ensure you're still viable in the raid AND enjoying the time you spend in game.

Super hardcore folks who will spend the requisite amount of time to keep 2 artifacts at the same level won't have this problem, but that will be very few people indeed. But these types of people have likely already made their decision and probably wouldn't come to this thread to get an answer, so your comment about theorycrafting (which is typically only done by hardcore/ serious raiders) doesn't really apply here IMO.

[blunts]

Pretty sure that he's just reminding everyone that it's a game and the purpose is to enjoy yourself. Raiding and progression isn't everything so playing the "spec of the day" while it has a purpose in those areas, should not be the defining characteristic of whether you enjoy the class.

That said, it is a very valid question in regards to which artifact weapon should you focus on since you can therefore really only focus on one spec at a time. If the "spec of the day" changes and you focused on yesterdays spec...you're SOL now. So focusing on the most competitive spec that you enjoy playing is probably the safest option to ensure you're still viable in the raid AND enjoying the time you spend in game.

Super hardcore folks who will spend the requisite amount of time to keep 2 artifacts at the same level won't have this problem, but that will be very few people indeed. But these types of people have likely already made their decision and probably wouldn't come to this thread to get an answer, so your comment about theorycrafting (which is typically only done by hardcore/ serious raiders) doesn't really apply here IMO.

This is pretty much my dilemma. I value damage over fun, and don't want to choose a suboptimal artifact.

[Deleted]

Even with the run through nerf. Outlaw is still king so and because I raid mythic that is what I'll be using unless it gets heavy nerfs

[Deleted]

"Progression" guilds that bring the specs and not the player don't exactly go too far in progression. I have yet to see convincing theorycraft about what excels in 110 in either pvp or pve and all the unofficial claims and records show that whatever disparity is minimal to not even worth talking about. Not sure what a "shit" spec is when it comes to rogues really. I see three specs that look pretty viable and unless you belong to the 0.1% of progression mythic raiders I would say focus on what YOU enjoy not what your raid leader who will play DH enjoys.

In progression guilds, raiders have the mindset of wanting to play the best spec. So it's never a case of bring the spec not the player...Because the player always brings the optimal spec, so it does go pretty far really. My raid leader is sticking holy pally

[elcapone]

In progression guilds, raiders have the mindset of wanting to play the best spec. So it's never a case of bring the spec not the player...Because the player always brings the optimal spec, so it does go pretty far really. My raid leader is sticking holy pally

and what happens if outlaw gets nerfed below asassination and sub, you will be playing a spec that you dont enjoy and is under performing. Something to consider.

[minteK917]

"Progression" guilds that bring the specs and not the player don't exactly go too far in progression. I have yet to see convincing theorycraft about what excels in 110 in either pvp or pve and all the unofficial claims and records show that whatever disparity is minimal to not even worth talking about. Not sure what a "shit" spec is when it comes to rogues really. I see three specs that look pretty viable and unless you belong to the 0.1% of progression mythic raiders I would say focus on what YOU enjoy not what your raid leader who will play DH enjoys.

Assa is ok in pvp. It just happens outlaw and sub are god tier. Its not theory. Ask anybody with beta experience, any rank one player, literally anybody. Both specs have more CC then assa. More survivability. In comparison to assa, sub might as well be a tank spec in pvp and cannot be kited. Outlaw burst is beyond what assa can even come close to, yet assa was stripped of all CC. Theres no theory in pvp there at 110. Assa is a specs that has no real pvp tool, except single target pressure. Even in its narrow role, is outdone by outlaw.

In world pvp assa is garbage next to sub, infact almost anything in the game is garbage next to sub in world pvp. Thats why instanced pvp nerf sub agility by 30% and all its damaging ability by 30%. The spec is considered god tier with these nerfs in the pvp zones, so imagine what happens when these heavy nerfs dont exist and people are missing 1 million hp. They just die to 2-3 shadow strikes.

[Deleted]

and what happens if outlaw gets nerfed below asassination and sub, you will be playing a spec that you dont enjoy and is under performing. Something to consider.

What don't people understand? If outlaw gets nerfed I swap to the next optimal spec...I know how to play specs and enjoy all specs. Is it rocket science, what doesn't make sense here? Artifacts aren't a huge problem.

[Wow]

and what happens if outlaw gets nerfed below asassination and sub, you will be playing a spec that you dont enjoy and is under performing. Something to consider.

I think if that was going to happen it would have happened in this last hotfix before legion launches. As they did nerf it but not spec crushing lvls which they could have done as the did to assassin a few weeks ago.

[Deleted]

This is a thing every dps player playing a pure dps class live with. If fire got super nerfed 1 month into legion and frost got big buffs and ended on top any raider with ambitions would change and start work on that artefact. Same with warlocks hunters etc. In the past ppl changed spec depending I what was best and swapped gear. Now it's a bit more tricky and that's why ppl worry about what artefact to go for.

[elcapone]

What don't people understand? If outlaw gets nerfed I swap to the next optimal spec...I know how to play specs and enjoy all specs. Is it rocket science, what doesn't make sense here? Artifacts aren't a huge problem.

haha truee my bad, forgot to take in account people who are going to maximize multiple artifacts.

[Jaronicity]

I think if that was going to happen it would have happened in this last hotfix before legion launches. As they did nerf it but not spec crushing lvls which they could have done as the did to assassin a few weeks ago.

Meh, I think they're just taking baby steps with all their hotfixes. Not that I expect Outlaw to be 'dethroned' before release, I do expect several hotfixes between release and lead up to raids opening. They're likely at a point where they don't want to change things too drastically right before launch lest it affect people's decisions on what to pick up first.

[shaunika123]

Been Combat / Outlaw during WoD... gonna ditch it in favour of Assassination or Subtlety... just not a fan of the incredible RNG nature of Roll the Bones, either you're doing awesome or meh.

no offense but anyone who uses the "incredible RNG" excuse has obviously hasnt even tried it for more than 2 minutes

it's not RNG in a way that you either do shit dps or too good dps, it's actually pretty consistent (with the very very rare swings to high or low)

the only real RNG it has is the best form of RNG there is, where it doesnt influence your damage but it influences the way you play

the fact that your rotation changes slightly with every different RtB you do makes outlaw one of the most fun, dynamic and high skillcap (cap not floor) specs in the game

and what happens if outlaw gets nerfed below asassination and sub, you will be playing a spec that you dont enjoy and is under performing. Something to consider.

you change specs? you're gonna be keeping an offspec weapon at relative high points anyway and it'll be easy to catch up due to artifact knowledge

i almost guarantee you that the ranking of the specs wont drastically change till 7.1 and by the time that comes you'll have like 30 points in your main and 20+ in your off spec it wont be hard to change due to artifact knowledge

[Katchii]

This is pretty much my dilemma. I value damage over fun, and don't want to choose a suboptimal artifact.

Not sure where it's at exactly right now, but a few weeks ago when I had the same question and came around the forums here was the information: Assassination is top spec for single target with OK AoE and nice burst and is the spec of choice. Outlaw is OK, but the RNG nature of Roll the Bones makes it unfavorable for some people, but it is king at dungeon content because it's AoE is amazing and it's burst is pretty good. Everything I've read says that Outlaw is competitive (not too far behind Assassination). Subtlety wasn't even on the radar, except for PvP.

So if your choice is already between Outlaw and Assassination, choose whichever one you like and you should be fine as far as fun factor, because unless you're a progression raider who absolutely needs to min/max Outlaw will get the job done just fine.

Granted things probably changed a bit in the last few weeks so this may not be 100% accurate. If it's not I'll let the more up to date folks provide the most current information, but based on how things usually go in Beta it's probably not that much different to make what I said completely irrelevant.
@Alexi

What don't people understand? If outlaw gets nerfed I swap to the next optimal spec...I know how to play specs and enjoy all specs. Is it rocket science, what doesn't make sense here? Artifacts aren't a huge problem.

Unless you spend a ridiculous amount of time maxing them all out, it's a problem. And only the most seriously dedicated people who are willing to spend that kind of time won't have a problem with their artifacts all being at the same level. For the more casual crowd, it's more reasonable to assume that they'll have one artifact maxed (or close) and one a step or more behind, with their third (or fourth) being pretty far behind, which isn't really reasonable to use in a raid setting asking for min/max type stats and DPS.

[Fheng]

My only issue with outlaw is when i RtB 6 times at 6 cp with deeper strag and only roll 1 buff each time, thats when i get kinda upset and bored with the spec its just annoying to invest so much into rolling instead of damage. Otherwise its great and i'll be focusing on it first until it's either nerfed to the ground and something else takes the spot or whatever. As a mythic raider i gotta do whats best spec wise to preform and luckily i actually enjoy all three of the rogue specs i just wish they were closer in numbers so i could play whatever one i wanted on whatever boss lol but that's the dream.

[shaunika123]

Not sure where it's at exactly right now, but a few weeks ago when I had the same question and came around the forums here was the information: Assassination is top spec for single target with OK AoE and nice burst and is the spec of choice. Outlaw is OK, but the RNG nature of Roll the Bones makes it unfavorable for some people, but it is king at dungeon content because it's AoE is amazing and it's burst is pretty good. Everything I've read says that Outlaw is competitive (not too far behind Assassination). Subtlety wasn't even on the radar, except for PvP.

So if your choice is already between Outlaw and Assassination, choose whichever one you like and you should be fine as far as fun factor, because unless you're a progression raider who absolutely needs to min/max Outlaw will get the job done just fine.

Granted things probably changed a bit in the last few weeks so this may not be 100% accurate. If it's not I'll let the more up to date folks provide the most current information, but based on how things usually go in Beta it's probably not that much different to make what I said completely irrelevant.
@Alexi



Unless you spend a ridiculous amount of time maxing them all out, it's a problem. And only the most seriously dedicated people who are willing to spend that kind of time won't have a problem with their artifacts all being at the same level. For the more casual crowd, it's more reasonable to assume that they'll have one artifact maxed (or close) and one a step or more behind, with their third (or fourth) being pretty far behind, which isn't really reasonable to use in a raid setting asking for min/max type stats and DPS.

assa has received like 10 different nerfs (the hardest being exsang nerfed from 400% to 100%)
and outlaw received numerous buffs (RtB rerolling less RNG more RT and SS dmg)

outlaw is now ahead of assa by a pretty big margin and sub catches up to it at around mythic gear levels

[Katchii]

assa has received like 10 different nerfs (the hardest being exsang nerfed from 400% to 100%)
and outlaw received numerous buffs (RtB rerolling less RNG more RT and SS dmg)

outlaw is now ahead of assa by a pretty big margin and sub catches up to it at around mythic gear levels

Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind =) It's the same across other classes too, and I've been trying to follow a lot of them, can't keep up to date on everything.

I prefer Outlaw gameplay personally, but I think the fantasy around Assassination and the artifact questline for it is amazing. So I'll be doing both. I have no interest in Subtlety, at least for now. Could not wrap my head around the rotation and it felt really weird, I may try leveling as Subtlety to try and ease my way into it rather than trying to understand the level 100+ rotation because I just don't get it....

[blunts]

Not sure where it's at exactly right now, but a few weeks ago when I had the same question and came around the forums here was the information: Assassination is top spec for single target with OK AoE and nice burst and is the spec of choice. Outlaw is OK, but the RNG nature of Roll the Bones makes it unfavorable for some people, but it is king at dungeon content because it's AoE is amazing and it's burst is pretty good. Everything I've read says that Outlaw is competitive (not too far behind Assassination). Subtlety wasn't even on the radar, except for PvP.

So if your choice is already between Outlaw and Assassination, choose whichever one you like and you should be fine as far as fun factor, because unless you're a progression raider who absolutely needs to min/max Outlaw will get the job done just fine.

Granted things probably changed a bit in the last few weeks so this may not be 100% accurate. If it's not I'll let the more up to date folks provide the most current information, but based on how things usually go in Beta it's probably not that much different to make what I said completely irrelevant.

Thanks for the info. Guess I'm going assassination then.