do you think the EU will collapse?

[waitwutt]

[QUOTE=Theodarzna;42071402][QUOTE=waitwutt;42071310]

The EU will last, whether you like it or not. This is due to the EU being a thing of necessity, rather than convenience.


So far just the United States, and who knows for how long, and it has come at a rather grizzly cost in terms of human lives wiped out.

the us is still young when you compare previous empires in history

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I can ask the same to the people that claims EU won't collapse with Italy leaving.

It should be pretty obvious to someone (that actually knows what he's talking about) why EU would collpase without Italy.

Economic importance aside (something that would damage really bad the EU by itself) Italy is one of the founder nations of the European Union (long before it was called like that).

UK and Spain entered very late in the project and the UK didn't even care about it.

a simple no would have sufficed

[Deleted]

the us is still young when you compare previous empires in history

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a simple no would have sufficed

Previous empires?
Italy's economy is several times the size of Greeks economy.

[waitwutt]

Germany and Italy are both countries which used to be a bunch of smaller countries, that's from the top of my head. Then there's the UK as well...

Italy and Germany absorbed or took over the smaller coutries. is that what you think will happen with EU? they will all become one country? the uk is relatively small when compared "large scale unions" in history.

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The EU will only grow stronger. Pretty sure the whole Brexit thing was just intended as or will end up being a hard lesson for the few europeans who still believe they can manage without the EU. Apparently some of the Soros leaks show support for a Brexit, just so the UK would end up on it's knees and begging to get back or stay in.

http://soros.dcleaks.com/?art=291/Br...s-harsh-lesson

how does the uk benefit from the eu? (real question) seems like theyre on the "rich people side" or "losing side" of socialism, where theyre supporting the majority without getting much in return. I really don't know I don't live in Europe.

[Deleted]

Italy and Germany absorbed or took over the smaller coutries. is that what you think will happen with EU? they will all become one country? the uk is relatively small when compared "large scale unions" in history.- - - Updated - - -how does the uk benefit from the eu? (real question) seems like theyre on the "rich people side" or "losing side" of socialism, where theyre supporting the majority without getting much in return. I really don't know I don't live in Europe.

the average joe in the UK wont benefit from being in the EU, theres proof of that in all newspapers on how low income people have there earnings cut etc,the EU only caters to rich fuckers and big businesses as they get free money from the EU, and the reason poor people are left out in the cold as i said above is these rich fuckers dnt distribute the money to help the people who need it, labour,tories both of them have caused problems for the poor in the UK cos they just use them as a scapegoat all the time, i myself am poor i get like £500 aq month on disability benefits which is nothing i get like £6000 a year which is nothing when minimum wage earners get over £15000+ a year, yeah i know im not entitled to as much as someone who works but £500 a month is fuck all wen my rent alone is £300

[waitwutt]

Previous empires?
Italy's economy is several times the size of Greeks economy.

isn't Greece bankrupt? I wasn't talking about Greece. was talking about the age (in years) of the united states.

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Free access to a huge market. And having the higher level EU legislative body protecting the UK citizens and workers against corrupt laws and regulations by the UK government. There are hundreds of EU courtcases every year that protect UK citizens from malicious practices the UK government wanted to allow.

That are just two of the major points. There are other positives such as having political influence over the vastness of the european continent and being able to decide and influence policy from beyond their borders. There are also a few dozen positive european programs UK citizens, workers or students can enjoy (such as the Da Vinci programs, Erasmus, etc).

ok so without knowing the complexities of it these are the questions that immediately pop up in my head. "Free access to a huge market" do you mean if they weren't apart of the EU they would not be able to buy and sell to the member countries of the EU if someone started a business? if not then why not when countries who aren't apart of the EU are able to?


"And having the higher level EU legislative body protecting the UK citizens and workers against corrupt laws and regulations by the UK government"

who protects them from corrupt laws and reg's made by the EU?

[Deleted]

isn't Greece bankrupt? I wasn't talking about Greece. was talking about the age (in years) of the united states.

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ok so without knowing the complexities of it these are the questions that immediately pop up in my head. "Free access to a huge market" do you mean if they weren't apart of the EU they would not be able to buy and sell to the member countries of the EU if someone started a business? if not then why not when countries who aren't apart of the EU are able to?


"And having the higher level EU legislative body protecting the UK citizens and workers against corrupt laws and regulations by the UK government"

who protects them from corrupt laws and reg's made by the EU?

The United States is not an empire.
The size of the Italian economy itself makes it so that if something like what happened to Greece happens to italy, there won't be any money left.

[Kallisto]

Well, it was 'peaceful' in the sense that the major powers never squabbled (except during the Napoleonic wars) like they did in the previous centuries.

Crimea (France, Britain, Austria, Ottoman vs Russia)
Greek war of independence. (Britain, France, Russia, Greece vs Ottomans)
Franco-Prussian war (speaks for itself)
Prussian-Austrian war (Austria and Prussia were both perhaps the major players of central Europe)

Most people think the 1800s were peaceful because the UK barely got involved. Napoleon, Crimea and Greek independence. But for rest of the century UK was busy out around the world and since how people view the 1800s as being the British Century (victorian era) they don't realise Europe was on fire during most of the 1800s.

[Deleted]

The United States is not an empire.
The size of the Italian economy itself makes it so that if something like what happened to Greece happens to italy, there won't be any money left.

What are you kidding?
If Italy went kaput it would be a political problem, not an economical one.
The Eurozone is the largest or the second largest economy on earth depending on how you count - It could tomorrow issue bonds for a trillion euro's, have them bought five minutes later (at very low interest rates) to plug whatever hole needed plugging.

[waitwutt]

Simplified example: Currently UK business only need one production line if they want to trade with businesses within the UK and the EU: The EU production line. After Brexit every business that wants to trade with the EU will need two production lines: UK production line and EU production line, this will cost money, time and resources for businesses and ultimately explains why Brexit will hurt the UK economy.

I can see where youre coming from on many of those other issues. still a little confused here. having 2 production lines would cost time and money for big business I get that. I get how it would hurt profits of many big exporters.

but wouldn't that also double the amount of people needed to fill those production positions. drastically increasing jobs and opening spots for new shipping, export and import businesses"

[ikotanya]

well yeah, private companies are making bonds and selling them to the central bank, everywhere else it's the other way around.

[Deleted]

What are you kidding?
If Italy went kaput it would be a political problem, not an economical one.
The Eurozone is the largest or the second largest economy on earth depending on how you count - It could tomorrow issue bonds for a trillion euro's, have them bought five minutes later (at very low interest rates) to plug whatever hole needed plugging.

This isnt a dick measuring contest. Just read up about it as it's kind of Offtopic.

[Deleted]

a simple no would have sufficed

You just have totally no clue about how EU was born, how it works and how much more italy is important to the EU compared to other countries like UK or Greece.

What are you kidding?
If Italy went kaput it would be a political problem, not an economical one.
The Eurozone is the largest or the second largest economy on earth depending on how you count - It could tomorrow issue bonds for a trillion euro's, have them bought five minutes later (at very low interest rates) to plug whatever hole needed plugging.

This thread is comical

[Deleted]

He isn't wrong though. The EU is the richest or wealthiest political entity on the planet.

The EU is like the Lannisters of the real world, and it seems the UK wants to be Castamere.

Italy is a 60 million people economy. The numbers are just big and the economy is interconnected.
Once again, this is not a dick measuring contest. Just saying.
Who cares anyway.

[Theodarzna]

.... I change my answer,

Glorious EUtopia will reign for 10,000 years, Immortal God Commissioner Jean-Claude Juncker PROTECTS!

[Deleted]

.... I change my answer,

Glorious EUtopia will reign for 10,000 years, Immortal God Commissioner Jean-Claude Juncker PROTECTS!

Now youre talking. 1000 souls a day to feed immortal Jean claude juncker sitting in his throne.

[Theodarzna]

Now youre talking. 1000 souls a day to feed immortal Jean claude juncker sitting in his throne.

Explains the desire to bring in refugees, gotta feed somebody to the golden throne.

[Deleted]

Explains the desire to bring in refugees, gotta feed somebody to the golden throne.

Oh my god it makes perfect sense!

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With 2015 numbers we got reserves for the next couple of years

[Deleted]

This thread is comical

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/imple.../index.en.html
That is the ECB buying bonds.
Buying with completely imaginary money they just made up.
They would buy euro debt if they could, but the instrument does not exist.
because its a political problem creating it - But ignoring that hurdle, the ECB could 'print' money, buy the newly issued Euro debts, and voila, the Euro zone just got 1 trillion to plug whatever hole required plugging.

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Italy is a 60 million people economy.

Yeah but its not Italy - Its a part of the Eurozone, and the eurozone is much larger -
Again, the problem is not the chequebook - its the political will to 'create' the joint debt.

[Deleted]

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/imple.../index.en.html
That is the ECB buying bonds.
Buying with completely imaginary money they just made up.
They would buy euro debt if they could, but the instrument does not exist.
because its a political problem creating it - But ignoring that hurdle, the ECB could 'print' money, buy the newly issued Euro debts, and voila, the Euro zone just got 1 trillion to plug whatever hole required plugging.

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Yeah but its not Italy - Its a part of the Eurozone, and the eurozone is much larger -
Again, the problem is not the chequebook - its the political will to 'create' the joint debt.

Maybe youre right who knows who cares. We're talking about feeding refugee psykers to the golden throne for the glory of our emperor Junkers.

[Deleted]

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/imple.../index.en.html
That is the ECB buying bonds.
Buying with completely imaginary money they just made up.
They would buy euro debt if they could, but the instrument does not exist.
because its a political problem creating it - But ignoring that hurdle, the ECB could 'print' money, buy the newly issued Euro debts, and voila, the Euro zone just got 1 trillion to plug whatever hole required plugging.

Printing money doesn't guarantee anything at all, how about inflation and unemployment rate?

This is economy 101...