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  1. #341
    Meh, I'm done arguing with sub 1k progress people that doesn't understand progressing mythic without
    gear.
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Itychy View Post
    Average player. Pugs/LFR/World Content
    Average raider. Normal/Heroic Participants.
    Mediocre Mythic Guild. Not top 500 guild, raids it anyway, paces slowly.

    And No it isn't bullshit, it is comparable, the healing ret can achieve if specced properly later on is quite interesting and if given a boost would be a fun hybrid spec.

    Also why so angry?

    I never said it wasn't a full dps spec, I said it is right now, but the way it's balanced isn't quite strong enough and the blessings only exacerbate the confusion of why would you provide ways for ret to gimp their own damage at the cost of shields, mana regen and healing.
    Shifting gears for a moment, I'd like to pose to you a question that I asked in another thread. So, I have a serious question that I'd like answered, and anyone is free to chime in. In your opinion, how much of a dps buff does ret need to be viable in a world first, (top 3) guild? How much of a dps buff does ret need to be the absolute strongest dps spec in the game? Please answer for single target, 3 target cleave and mass AoE, (6+ targets).

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Reick View Post
    The best utility bring by any melee and by far is the commanding shout from warrior, not even mention it make everything you wrote irrelevant. x')
    Thats not even remotely true. Its utility, but its far from the best. The smoke bomb DHs offer is most likely the best, 20% to avoid taking damage from anything. Or the multiple speed boosts WW offers, thats up there too. Commanding shout is not even remotely the best utility.

    If you would actually take a 3 minute CD that increases health by 15% for 10 seconds for everyone over a smoke bomb that has a 20% chance to avoid tanking any form of damage for everyone in it or a 10% passive speed boost+a 70% movement speed buff for 6 seconds on a 30 sec CD or 2 grips then I dont know what to tell you. All of those are better than commanding shout, especially when theres a better version of commanding shout out there already.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Meh, I'm done arguing with sub 1k progress people that doesn't understand progressing mythic without
    gear.
    Lol that ego. Glad you arent around here often. If Im wrong then Im wrong, I have no problem accepting that, but you havent said anything that shows me Im wrong aside from *ret has no utility* which is..also wrong. It may not be amazing like having 2 grips or smoke bomb, but its better than what a lot of other melee offer (survival, enhancement, dps warriors}. Either way, dont respond if you dont want to, Id rather not argue with an ego like that.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-08-27 at 05:04 PM.

  4. #344
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    @Nemmar Kings will be good, it's just a matter of when. I guess you could calculate it, but eh. It scales with AP so it'll get better as we go along. If they buffed it now, due to the fact it scales it would inevitably receive a nerf later down the line. Not so sure I trust them with nerfing and such.

    As for DK utility, it's okay. Blood DKs already have mass grip, there really shouldn't be straggling adds with that but Grip is still useful.

    Either way, BoP, LoH and Kings are all utility. Survival hunters and enhancement shamans have no utility, Arms and Fury have a 3m CD that increase health to everyone by 15% within 30 yards for 10s. I wouldn't take that over anything a ret could bring. Not to mention we have off heals to offer as well.

    The only melee that still have exceptional utility are WW monks (good speed boosts), Feral Druids (good speed boost)Havoc DHs (new version of smoke bomb in the form of a defensive) and Unholy DK (two grips). Many other melee offer little to nothing in terms of utility. I'd take ret over most melee if damage was balanced honestly. No idea why anyone wouldn't if that were the case.

    As for actual blessings, it really depends on what your raid needs during progression. Are your tanks dieing? Use kings. Are your healers going OOM often? Use wisdom. Are you not able to push the encounter fast enough? Use Might. That's only if they were all actually useful though.
    Thing is you can always determine that to the damage one. It always bring the most benefit. But, if its not extra damage, this damage or utility is coming at the cost of our output. That is the real issue. You will have more utility if you simply take a Melee that does more damage. Boss dies faster, less mana needed by the healers, less chances for the tanks to be killed. These blessings only make sense if our DPS is not balanced around them. So, they are very much useless. The other melee bring the DPs and their utility doesn't come at the detriment of their output.
    But, i guess at least we have the option if a freak situation where one of those is really handy comes around.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Thing is you can always determine that to the damage one. It always bring the most benefit. But, if its not extra damage, this damage or utility is coming at the cost of our output. That is the real issue. You will have more utility if you simply take a Melee that does more damage. Boss dies faster, less mana needed by the healers, less chances for the tanks to be killed. These blessings only make sense if our DPS is not balanced around them. So, they are very much useless. The other melee bring the DPs and their utility doesn't come at the detriment of their output.
    But, i guess at least we have the option if a freak situation where one of those is really handy comes around.
    Yeah, thats what Ive been saying most of the time. Ive been talking about utility as if we were balanced with other melee. Im just comparing utility to utility without factoring in who does more damage on what fights, mainly because I wanted to focus on just comparing utility.

    If we do factor in damage and whose better where, we wont be taken. Thats as of this moment anyway.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-08-27 at 05:44 PM.

  6. #346
    Maybe one or two Rets in this whole discussion board will face any real threat of being sat due to performance.

    The other 99.9999% of us will be able to get spots if our skill warrants it.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    Maybe one or two Rets in this whole discussion board will face any real threat of being sat due to performance.

    The other 99.9999% of us will be able to get spots if our skill warrants it.
    I won't be sat! The running gag in my guild is that I don't play a paladin at all. I play the Laurcus class. I think I'd actually be embarrassed by that if I wasn't such an ego maniacal bastard with a god complex.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we all know I talk a bunch of shit. I figure I should back up at least a bit of that shit talking though, and maybe give us all something to talk about in the meantime. These are some fresh screenshots from some random dungeons I did.





    Both those fights were around a minute long. Obviously on longer fights there'd be drop off, but that's universally true. I actually topped out at like 700k during Crusade. I wish I screenshotted this one trash pull in Vault of the Wardens where I broke 2 mil. Anywho, is that good for 850 ilvl? Am I the worst ret paladin to ever play the game? Idk. And before anyone makes any snide comments, yes, I usually only buff myself in dungeons, and I only really care about might. I'm an asshole like that.

    See, this is why I'm such an obnoxious cunt when I see people saying that ret is bad or needs buffs. I do this kind of shit all day, and it's the same song and dance every dungeon. Me, on the top of the meters, by an asinine amount. That's why it's so hard for me to take it seriously when people say we're bad, especially if they can't give exact numbers as to how bad we are. I understand that's a recipe for confirmation bias, but that's the only data I have to go off of, because every sim that I've seen does not match a realistic level of gear and every log I've looked at has just been garbage play.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2016-08-28 at 12:45 AM.

  8. #348
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    So, I have a serious question that I'd like answered, and anyone is free to chime in. In your opinion, how much of a dps buff does ret need to be viable in a world first, (top 3) guild? How much of a dps buff does ret need to be the absolute strongest dps spec in the game? Please answer for single target, 3 target cleave and mass AoE, (6+ targets).

    still waiting... itz a legit question.
    Last edited by mmocdfc202a8dc; 2016-08-27 at 08:12 PM.

  9. #349
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashcrypt View Post
    Maybe one or two Rets in this whole discussion board will face any real threat of being sat due to performance.

    The other 99.9999% of us will be able to get spots if our skill warrants it.
    I would say, only those that are already stable on their guilds and have a good relationship with the leaders.

    If you were guildless, finding a mythic guild that is willing to take a Ret should be extremely difficult. But, its the same with most melee. Rogues and unholy DK's are probably the only ones on demand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I won't be sat! The running gag in my guild is that I don't play a paladin at all. I play the Laurcus class. I think I'd actually be embarrassed by that if I wasn't such an ego maniacal bastard with a god complex.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we all know I talk a bunch of shit. I figure I should back up at least a bit of that shit talking though, and maybe give us all something to talk about in the meantime. These are some fresh screenshots from some random dungeons I did.

    Both those fights were around a minute long. Obviously on longer fights there'd be drop off, but that's universally true. I actually topped out at like 700k during Crusade. I wish I screenshotted this one trash pull in Vault of the Wardens where broke 2 mil. Anywho, is that good for 850 ilvl? Am I the worst ret paladin to ever play the game? Idk. And before anyone makes any snide comments, yes, I usually only buff myself in dungeons, and I only really care about might. I'm an asshole like that.

    See, this is why I'm such an obnoxious cunt when I see people saying that ret is bad or needs buffs. I do this kind of shit all day, and it's the same song and dance every dungeon. Me, on the top of the meters, by an asinine amount. That's why it's so hard for me to take it seriously when people say we're bad, especially if they can't give exact numbers as to how bad we are. I understand that's a recipe for confirmation bias, but that's the only data I have to go off of, because very sim that I've seen does not match a realistic level of gear and every log I've looked at has just been garbage play.
    Look, i don't want to be harsh. But first, the arguments have come in raid viability. Dungeons are not raid fights. Second, who knows who you are playing with and third i don't know what gear level the others have. I can tell you are putting effort in playing your class well. If you play against average players, you will probably do well no matter wich spec you play. But that is not data to extrapolate the condition the Spec is in.
    So, hold tight and wait for the final rankings where we can see how we are stacking against the other classes under the same conditions.

    With that said, i would be happy if you were right, and i can tell you i will squeeze the crap out of the spec. But i can't shake off that voice behind of my head that tells me it would be more beneficial to the raid if i played a higher DPS spec.
    But they know me for a long time and they even incentivate me to stay Ret because i have always been Ret since TBC. I know i will do well with it, but i also know that if my raid had 14 DPS'ers of the same skill level, i probably wouldn't look as good.
    The thing is the expansion is coming out and there isnt enough information out there to pick a good new main character. Theres specs i like, but theres no garantee that they will be more viable than Ret.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-08-28 at 06:52 PM.

  10. #350
    Deleted
    well, nice try, still avoid legit question, since low dps is center of debate (in T call Ret PAladin DPS comparision).

    again: answer Laurcus question pls, what DPS-buff would be sufficient for Top3 PvE (ST, CL, AOE)?

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post

    - - - Updated - - -

    With that said, i would be happy if you were right, and i can tell you i will squeeze the crap out of the spec. But i can't shake off that voice behind of my head that tells me it would be more beneficial to the raid if i played a higher DPS spec.
    But they know me for a long time and they even incentivate me to stay Ret because i have always been Ret since TBC. I know i will do well with it, but i also know that if my raid had 16 DPS'ers of the same skill level, i probably wouldn't look as good.
    The thing is the expansion is coming out and there isnt enough information out there to pick a good new main character. Theres specs i like, but theres no garantee that they will be more viable than Ret.
    Don't forget that if you decide maining warrior instead of ret is better but you only like fury (I don't see how anyone could really like arms) and it gets nerfed hard you'll be stuck with that class and even possibly stuck playing arms even if you hate it. Can't switch back because that would put you behind. So, gotta choose carefully.

    I see a lot of people sticking with ret but as you said we also don't have enough information to really say much about our numbers. Balancing is still in progress which makes things even more complicated. Either way, make sure you play something you at least enjoy. If you enjoy ret and your guild is fine with you staying ret then play it.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I won't be sat! The running gag in my guild is that I don't play a paladin at all. I play the Laurcus class. I think I'd actually be embarrassed by that if I wasn't such an ego maniacal bastard with a god complex.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, we all know I talk a bunch of shit. I figure I should back up at least a bit of that shit talking though, and maybe give us all something to talk about in the meantime. These are some fresh screenshots from some random dungeons I did.

    Both those fights were around a minute long. Obviously on longer fights there'd be drop off, but that's universally true. I actually topped out at like 700k during Crusade. I wish I screenshotted this one trash pull in Vault of the Wardens where broke 2 mil. Anywho, is that good for 850 ilvl? Am I the worst ret paladin to ever play the game? Idk. And before anyone makes any snide comments, yes, I usually only buff myself in dungeons, and I only really care about might. I'm an asshole like that.

    See, this is why I'm such an obnoxious cunt when I see people saying that ret is bad or needs buffs. I do this kind of shit all day, and it's the same song and dance every dungeon. Me, on the top of the meters, by an asinine amount. That's why it's so hard for me to take it seriously when people say we're bad, especially if they can't give exact numbers as to how bad we are. I understand that's a recipe for confirmation bias, but that's the only data I have to go off of, because very sim that I've seen does not match a realistic level of gear and every log I've looked at has just been garbage play.
    We dont know the ilevel or skill level of the guys you random with, so those screenshots mean nothing.

    Anyway iam reserving my judgment pun intended for when raid starts

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    I would say, only those that are already stable on their guilds and have a good relationship with the leaders.

    If you were guildless, finding a mythic guild that is willing to take a Ret should be extremely difficult. But, its the same with most melee. Rogues and unholy DK's are probably the only ones on demand.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Look, i don't want to be harsh. But first, the arguments have come in raid viability. Dungeons are not raid fights. Second, who knows who you are playing with and third i don't know what gear level the others have. I can tell you are putting effort in playing your class well. If you play against average players, you will probably do well no matter wich spec you play. But that is not data to extrapolate the condition the Spec is in.
    So, hold tight and wait for the final rankings where we can see how we are stacking against the other classes under the same conditions.

    With that said, i would be happy if you were right, and i can tell you i will squeeze the crap out of the spec. But i can't shake off that voice behind of my head that tells me it would be more beneficial to the raid if i played a higher DPS spec.
    But they know me for a long time and they even incentivate me to stay Ret because i have always been Ret since TBC. I know i will do well with it, but i also know that if my raid had 16 DPS'ers of the same skill level, i probably wouldn't look as good.
    The thing is the expansion is coming out and there isnt enough information out there to pick a good new main character. Theres specs i like, but theres no garantee that they will be more viable than Ret.
    You can be harsh, I got thick skin. ^_^ I agree with you in principal about holding on for final rankings, but we're 2 days from launch. I swear in past expansions there were much more comprehensive sims available for every spec by this point. And, well, it's not like other people have held off when it comes to jumping on the haterade train. I get not liking how ret plays, but I think a lot of people, (not saying you're one of them) have dismissed ret as having garbage numbers based on disliking the playstyle, and that just seems irrational to me.

    And you're right, you don't know the caliber of player I run with in dungeons. That's why I've been running so many dungeons, to try and get an idea of where we actually stack up. I have been beaten on single target 1 time, and that was by an assassination rogue before the Exsang nerf, and he had about 25 ilvl on me. Fucker was decked out in all mythic 10 gear. On AoE, I lose to havoc DHs and fire mages of similar gear. So gear wise take my word for it, (or don't that's your choice I suppose) that I have ran with people with basically every level of gear between 810 and and 875. Skill is obviously a lot harder for my ERT to judge. It's funny though, just a few days ago I had someone on these very boards tell me that skill won't make a difference, that ret is so bad even a much less skilled rogue/warrior/DK would easily beat out a ret, that ret is a meme and is universally nothing but a burden to any raid group.

    Concerning dungeons vs raids, I'm already thinking of ways to try and optimize dps. I think ret's niche is going to be AoEing spread out mobs. Divine Tempest allows for some really degenerate crap on AoE that I don't think other melee will be able to emulate. P3 Xavius is going to be fun for us.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2016-08-28 at 01:16 AM.

  14. #354
    Fine, I'll bite. I don't have Beta access, but I'll match the assumption that people on Beta are practicing mains instead of dicking around with specs they've never played before in their life with the assumption that our artifact will help our DPS about as well as other specs' DPS will be helped by their artifact.

    Background:

    So I'm a 738 Ret with a 750 weapon. Tyrant was generous. I've raided consistently on my Ret since Firelands (I skipped Wrath and before that I couldn't get a regular raid group as a Ret). Even in 4.0 I was able to top meters in early Cata dungeons with blue 346 gear. I've consistently either been on par with or outdamaged every Ret I've met on my server since Cataclysm, even when mildly undergeared (e.g. Heroic vs Mythic gear). Most of my current raid team I met during HFC but a few of the longstanding members I raided with in BRF. During BRF I consistently traded off the #1 DPS slot with one of those members, a hunter. HFC I've struggled, which I attribute to scaling issues.

    Since the prepatch I've consistently been in a pretty crappy position on the meters, with once exception. 7.0 dropped when we were working on Mannoroth, and my raid leader's husband had us grab the Invasion Felstones for some of our attempts on both Mannoroth and Archimonde. Under the Sunder buff I hit top numbers for the first time in over a year. I'm too lazy to be arsed reviewing my logs and dates again, but on Mannoroth Sunder was 44% of my damage and that put me in our top slot and just under the top DPS I've seen from our Rogue and Mages.

    So I'm rolling with that. We would need our damage doubled to reach top shelf single-target DPS, since Mannie and Archi are about as close to single target as you get these days, with the exception of Fel Reaver. We'd probably need more than that for full AoE dominance given that Blinding Light hits almost as hard as an unbuffed Divine Storm and we can only debuff a few targets with Judgement. That's a completely unacceptable spread.

    Yes, it's prepatch. We don't have critical abilities, item levels, artifact powers, legendaries. Neither do other classes. We (as a spec) do have set bonuses. I don't have Beta access so that's the limit of my experience in comparing our DPS, and one of the reasons I haven't really brought it up, but @Laurcus and @Avenging Wrath are being insistent, and from what I can see, things are not fine and are not likely to become fine either.

    Random notes/disclaimers:

    • I'll admit I dislike our T18 bonus and I really despise the Legion changes, so I know I'm not playing optimally.
    • Prior to Legion I was able to match numbers with the other Ret in our raid lagging 10 iLevels behind him; since 7.0 our numbers have been close to even despite my having a weapon advantage over him.
    • I typically see GBoM contributing 10-12% of my damage on a good pull versus the 7-9% I've seen thrown around the thread.
    • I will say that I've been pleasantly surprised by our survivability. I had serious concerns when we lost Divine Protection but the addition of Justicar's Vengeance and taking Shield of Vengeance off the GCD has been adequate from a PvE perspective.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Fine, I'll bite. I don't have Beta access, but I'll match the assumption that people on Beta are practicing mains instead of dicking around with specs they've never played before in their life with the assumption that our artifact will help our DPS about as well as other specs' DPS will be helped by their artifact.

    Background:

    So I'm a 738 Ret with a 750 weapon. Tyrant was generous. I've raided consistently on my Ret since Firelands (I skipped Wrath and before that I couldn't get a regular raid group as a Ret). Even in 4.0 I was able to top meters in early Cata dungeons with blue 346 gear. I've consistently either been on par with or outdamaged every Ret I've met on my server since Cataclysm, even when mildly undergeared (e.g. Heroic vs Mythic gear). Most of my current raid team I met during HFC but a few of the longstanding members I raided with in BRF. During BRF I consistently traded off the #1 DPS slot with one of those members, a hunter. HFC I've struggled, which I attribute to scaling issues.

    Since the prepatch I've consistently been in a pretty crappy position on the meters, with once exception. 7.0 dropped when we were working on Mannoroth, and my raid leader's husband had us grab the Invasion Felstones for some of our attempts on both Mannoroth and Archimonde. Under the Sunder buff I hit top numbers for the first time in over a year. I'm too lazy to be arsed reviewing my logs and dates again, but on Mannoroth Sunder was 44% of my damage and that put me in our top slot and just under the top DPS I've seen from our Rogue and Mages.

    So I'm rolling with that. We would need our damage doubled to reach top shelf single-target DPS, since Mannie and Archi are about as close to single target as you get these days, with the exception of Fel Reaver. We'd probably need more than that for full AoE dominance given that Blinding Light hits almost as hard as an unbuffed Divine Storm and we can only debuff a few targets with Judgement. That's a completely unacceptable spread.

    Yes, it's prepatch. We don't have critical abilities, item levels, artifact powers, legendaries. Neither do other classes. We (as a spec) do have set bonuses. I don't have Beta access so that's the limit of my experience in comparing our DPS, and one of the reasons I haven't really brought it up, but @Laurcus and @Avenging Wrath are being insistent, and from what I can see, things are not fine and are not likely to become fine either.

    Random notes/disclaimers:

    • I'll admit I dislike our T18 bonus and I really despise the Legion changes, so I know I'm not playing optimally.
    • Prior to Legion I was able to match numbers with the other Ret in our raid lagging 10 iLevels behind him; since 7.0 our numbers have been close to even despite my having a weapon advantage over him.
    • I typically see GBoM contributing 10-12% of my damage on a good pull versus the 7-9% I've seen thrown around the thread.
    • I will say that I've been pleasantly surprised by our survivability. I had serious concerns when we lost Divine Protection but the addition of Justicar's Vengeance and taking Shield of Vengeance off the GCD has been adequate from a PvE perspective.
    First off, I applaud you answering my question. I do worry that prepatch is messing with your perceptions a bit though. I honestly don't think that every spec gets as much out of their artifact as we do. This is both from my own testing on beta and eyeballing things on the artifact calculator. Concerning the fun factor, I also dislike our T18 bonuses, and I really fucking hate the ring. In HFC we're in this idiotic position where optimally we want to delay ring by ~10 seconds while we set up Crusade, but no one else wants to delay ring. We can play DP instead, but DP is fucking garbage compared to Crusade unless you get God procs. The rotation also just feels so clumsy and slow, and AoE feels worthless with Divine Storm doing all the damage of a wet sock. That sound reminiscent of your experience?

    I have pretty damn good standing with my guild, so for shits and giggles I've been able to delay ring once in awhile to test shit out, to the grumbling of just a couple fury warriors, and what I've found is that Crusade is such a large portion of my damage, it barely even seems worth it to worry about ring if we're using it on pull. When I have been able to line line ring up with Crusade, my position on the meters was about as good if not better than it was in 6.2. Some of that might be because some of my guild mates are having issues adjusting to the changes, idk. A lot of them are players that have had some 99%+ ranks in mythic HFC, so I don't think they're awful. I'm pretty confident though that I'm more or less playing perfectly.

    Well, I can tell you for sure that 110 is a totally different beast. First off, Divine Tempest, Echo of the Highlord and Righteous Blade. All %damage increases to Divine Storm. They're actually so much damage, that they change our rotation. Divine Storm becomes a dps increase on two targets, and that feels fucking wonderful. Like, AoE actually does something. We also have Wake of Ashes with Ashes to Ashes, and those fill a huge gap in the rotation and introduce some much needed burst. The extra button with the AoE damage is nice enough, but the holy power generation allowing you to slam out more finishers is a lot of fun imo and it's up frequently enough that it actually feels like it changes the playstyle a lot. There's also a nifty little thing called Wrath of the Ashbringer, which increases the duration of AW/Crusade by 2.5 seconds per rank. I actually have it at 4 ranks right now, because relics, and having Crusade at a nice even 30 seconds is something that pleases me greatly, especially since on use trinkets are godly OP in Legion and they all have a 30 second duration with a 2 min CD. All of this combines to be really game changing. Personally, I prefer having 1 CD that's up for 30 seconds, and having that be utterly retarded while it's up, compared to the 3 CDs that are up for a year but they hit like a wet noodle, like we had in 6.2. And fyi, the reason Crusade is retarded is because of Ashes to Ashes and WotA. Ashes allows us to ramp twice as fast, and WotA increases the duration by nearly 50% baseline, and potentially even more if you have good luck with relics. I do genuinely have a lot more fun with the spec at 110. Divine Tempest is also fun as fuck. Being able to blast things on the other side of the room without getting off the boss is sick.

    That's not to say there's not trouble in paradise. Just so everyone is clear on the matter, I do not like judgment as a debuff. If there's anything that I want changed, it's that. Would have some sick interaction with Divine Tempest too, because good luck getting your judgment debuff on a group of adds on the other side of the room.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by marinos View Post
    The problem is that for how long they will do that because with ret's current state even the last that are left will reroll.
    Ret isn't retlol just yet, even if we don't get tuning it at least feels decent enough to exist

  17. #357
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Don't forget that if you decide maining warrior instead of ret is better but you only like fury (I don't see how anyone could really like arms) and it gets nerfed hard you'll be stuck with that class and even possibly stuck playing arms even if you hate it. Can't switch back because that would put you behind. So, gotta choose carefully.

    I see a lot of people sticking with ret but as you said we also don't have enough information to really say much about our numbers. Balancing is still in progress which makes things even more complicated. Either way, make sure you play something you at least enjoy. If you enjoy ret and your guild is fine with you staying ret then play it.
    Yeah i delayed the decision as much as i could. I am gonna level my warrior and hunter asap aswell. But if i blink i'm behind, so i'm just gonna stick to Ret. Will only change if Ret really becomes trash tier. But yeah i have that spec problem with War (love fury... Arms meh...) and Hunter (love BM... MM meh...). So yeah, with the Paladin i don't run the risk of having to play something unexpected as we do have tanks and healers well covered.
    It's not like i love the new Ret playstyle in any way, but i do love beeing a Ret Paladin. I am gonna miss topping meters though. ^^
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2016-08-28 at 12:46 PM.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Yeah i delayed the decision as much as i could. I am gonna level my warrior and hunter asap aswell. But if i blink i'm behind, so i'm just gonna stick to Ret. Will only change if Ret really becomes trash tier. But yeah i have that spec problem with War (love fury... Arms meh...) and Hunter (love BM... MM meh...). So yeah, with the Paladin i don't run the risk of having to play something unexpected as we do have tanks and healers well covered.
    It's not like i love the new Ret playstyle in any way, but i do love beeing a Ret Paladin. I am gonna miss topping meters though. ^^
    Good choice, Id do the same honestly. Always keeping an alt ready is good, just in case.

  19. #359
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaris View Post
    Fine, I'll bite. I don't have Beta access, [/LIST]
    thx 4 sharing, Camaris, some truth needed to be told. i have some painkillers 4 u - u r not alone.

    the dps-loss is significant: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Retribution

    vs the before: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...on&partition=1

    btw: t7 top talent is Crusade in both versions (<3 pvp, Holy Avenger :)

    synonymous 2 all other encounters: ret lost dps prepatch.

    @Laurcus, these r the happy few of ret raiding, so i guess they know how to ret?

    /late edit: this may be an issue of transitional tuning OR not. my estimation or just a mere hope is: ret will be viable progress, what else r those ferrari % passives 4?
    Last edited by mmocdfc202a8dc; 2016-08-28 at 11:25 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Shifting gears for a moment, I'd like to pose to you a question that I asked in another thread. So, I have a serious question that I'd like answered, and anyone is free to chime in. In your opinion, how much of a dps buff does ret need to be viable in a world first, (top 3) guild? How much of a dps buff does ret need to be the absolute strongest dps spec in the game? Please answer for single target, 3 target cleave and mass AoE, (6+ targets).
    It will never happen, Ret will never be world 1st, and it is not just a DPS issue, its the utility issue as well.

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