1. #3581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    That's still up for debate, though its pretty unanimous that you go for impish incineration and burning hunger first.
    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  2. #3582
    For the love of god what is keeping them for buffing chaos bolt in pvp?! This spell is ina sad state and yet they keep buffing firemages as if they can't burst quickly enough.

    Seriously, what is keeping them?! This spell is not even worth casting, and GREATER PYROBLAST is cheaper to cast than this. What isthis BS? This spell is NOT FINE IN PVP. No one ever takes it!

  3. #3583
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Woulda been more fun / fitting if it like, made conflag consume the remaining dmg of immolate for a boost or sumpin similar to how it used to in the past.

    RB fits kind of awkwardly in the spec, and how it fits changes based on haste. It's actually going to be a nightmare for most players to use. Maybe a big part of the reason for the nerf, making it only a few % increase over backdraft (before the tier bonus anyway).

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    That's still up for debate, though its pretty unanimous that you go for impish incineration and burning hunger first.
    I could have got on board with something like that. Maybe something like 'conflag consumes your immolate on a target to instantly deal twice the remaining damage to the initial target and half that damage to all enemies within x yards'

    Two birds, one stone.

  4. #3584
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    I could have got on board with something like that. Maybe something like 'conflag consumes your immolate on a target to instantly deal twice the remaining damage to the initial target and half that damage to all enemies within x yards'

    Two birds, one stone.

    Maybe make it also
    That's really a bad idea. You know how much damage Inmolate does? A shit ton xD
    They tried this in WotlK. They did that conflag did like 35% damage of Inmolate on cast. It was nerfed *within a 3 days span*. I think it's one of the fastest nerfs ever. They hotfixed it by doing that Conflag left a dot.

  5. #3585
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Princess Missfit View Post
    That's really a bad idea. You know how much damage Inmolate does? A shit ton xD
    They tried this in WotlK. They did that conflag did like 35% damage of Inmolate on cast. It was nerfed *within a 3 days span*. I think it's one of the fastest nerfs ever. They hotfixed it by doing that Conflag left a dot.
    I mean, obviously the numbers aren't right, but you get the idea.

    Make it worth consuming the dot on single target and tie it to some on demand burst aoe

  6. #3586
    That's a step beyond what I was thinking, wouldn't think that a good idea personally.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  7. #3587
    Immolate do a very large portion of our damage right now, because is a constant and safe way to do damage if we had a bad RNG strow... That been said, the problem what i see right now is, even with a artifact's relics buffing CB through damage or SS generation, Immolate still is a more reliable way to do DPS (i been playing with the sims every bit update, and i still get lower dps buffing CB then buffing Immolate... Still, this is may be take with a grain of salt, seen the Sims may be have flaws yet, but still we can had get a general idea).

    The problem i see it right now for our dps, is indeed our mastery, it can grand so much damage, then blizz need to put our spell coeficint too low for compesate, but, we all know that a RNG mastery is not reliable at all... And, i dont see a way to fix this without chaging the mastery mechanic itselft...

  8. #3588
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    They did. They replaced it with an RNG mess they now try to sell us as "improved class fantasy".

    We now have less control over our mechanics, less powerful CBs, less visual effects, lesser amount of interesting flavor-giving quirks (soul shatter removed, conflagrate daze removed, dreadsteed waterwalk removed, faster GCD and mana reg. removed, ...), less interaction between abilities, less interesting secondary resource system, totally unappealing RNG mastery, less emphasis on nukes and more emphasis on dots and external guardians and pets ("bonus" points for having the latter compete for the same resource we use for the nukes), proper dps cooldown taken away, a fun AoE mechanics removed and replaced by horribly clunky RoF, lots of spec-defining core abilities removed and made into mutually exclusive talents, reintroduction of disliked outdated mechanics (life tap, mana tap; "bonus" points for implementing the worst version of life tap ever -- the one which scales negatively with gear! Years ago they tried to do the same but back then the player feedback made them reconsider -- not any more!).

    And this is just some of the features of this new "class fantasy".
    The spec has been gutted and destroyed. Whoever designed this new destruction had only played the previous one for less than a day and had no idea what the hell he was doing. Sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    Yup, Destruction was only ever actually complex in cataclysm
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCookieGod View Post
    People keep complaining about the loss of complexity in rotation, but, legitimately curious here, when has destruction ever been complex? .
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    It's actually gotten more complex with legion than its been in quite some time.

    But its the pre-xpac so ofc doomsayers are out in full swing. The same kind of talk happened before wod, and before mop, and basically every xpac.

    *shrug*

    I'm guessing the three of you haven't played destruction all of WOD?

    Going to quote a post I made before that explains most of the complexity and high skill cap that WOD destro had:
    Destro is not what destro is about. It's about HUGE chaos bolt damage, pooling your resource so you can chain huge chaos bolts during procs/demonsoul cooldowns, sniping low hp adds with shadowburn for extra soulshards, timing your conflags to maximize backdraft uptime on INCINERATE only(and never using it on chaos bolt) as well as using 1 charge then pooling the other 2 backdrafts to get off a chaos bolt(and other min/maxing of updraft), using havoc intelligently with shadowburn to increase your damage(and give free soul shards) and using fire & brimstone intelligently for a DPS increase + embers gain(and fun increase, aoeing chaos bolt was great).
    This too:

    Destro in Legion is no longer like that. Sniping with shadowburn was removed(1:1 shard gain for a net gain of zero) havoc is now a braindead button with no depth and shadowburn isn't an execute for havocing a boss then shadowburning an add/low hp boss for a big DPS increase. You can no longer pool your resource as well because full resource is only 2 1/2 chaos bolts instead of how many embers gave you(I forgot the number exactly, 4?) and chaos bolt doesn't hit hard anymore, as well as no demon soul to manage. Backdraft is as braindead as havoc and lost all depth and fun, fire and brimstone had the same thing done to it.

  9. #3589
    Several issues with your last text.

    Shadowburn does refund two soulshards when used as an execute. The Havoc Shadowburns return them as well. I preferred the WoD method as it required more forethought and was less forgiving so it felt better, but it is still a soulshard generator.

    You can still pool resources it's just more challenging, but the pay off could be better because of skillful (lucky) Eradication uptime. Chaosbolt does need a buff.

  10. #3590
    On live atm with bd ,incinerate is top dmg , sometimes close to cb ,depends on rng

  11. #3591
    well shiyo, according to a couple of high level aficionados on here.. apparently there is a hidden gem of a spec hidden in there somewhere. a complexity us doomsayers don`t have the insight to spot. we only have to wait and see if this surface at some point. they may be right you know

  12. #3592
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I'm guessing the three of you haven't played destruction all of WOD?

    Not sure about the other two, but I am pretty sure Bacon raided destro in a world ranked guild as a destro lock and was 13/13M probably a year ago. I would be careful about what you assume.
    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” -- Voltaire

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  13. #3593
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    Not sure about the other two, but I am pretty sure Bacon raided destro in a world ranked guild as a destro lock and was 13/13M probably a year ago. I would be careful about what you assume.
    Then maybe his opinion shouldn't be factually wrong.
    Saying Legion destro is more complex is just....you can't even say it with a straight face. It's so dumbed down and lost all depth and complexity. It's like the only spec that actually made worse going from wod - > legion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Several issues with your last text.

    Shadowburn does refund two soulshards when used as an execute. The Havoc Shadowburns return them as well. I preferred the WoD method as it required more forethought and was less forgiving so it felt better, but it is still a soulshard generator.

    You can still pool resources it's just more challenging, but the pay off could be better because of skillful (lucky) Eradication uptime. Chaosbolt does need a buff.
    Yeah, Legion warlock is a very dumbed down WOD lock when it comes to destro because of those things.

    No demon soul really sucks when it comes to pooling and stuff. It added a lot of strategy saving your embers(and not overcapping) while trying to maximize chaos bolt damage via procs/ring/demon souls.

  14. #3594
    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I'm guessing the three of you haven't played destruction all of WOD?
    I've been raiding in a us top 10 guild for the last 2 xpacs as a warlock (and will continue to do so in legion).

    I've seen your posts, you're just really hyperbolic and not at all objective. Makes it hard to take you seriously when you're posting things like "the spec has been gutted and destroyed"
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  15. #3595
    Quote Originally Posted by urdasergiu View Post
    On live atm with bd ,incinerate is top dmg , sometimes close to cb ,depends on rng
    I love the feel of backdraft, especially when you use it with Fire and Brimstone. I think that will end up being my go-to default spec for mythics, possibly-maybe-but-probably-not even raids. I doubt it will be that great in raids as shadowburn will probably be better at nuking adds down and the ST DPS loss from eradication is too great.

    Also as far as artifact traits go, the 9% incinerate perk VS the 15% rain of fire one is a tough call for me. Most would say its a no brainer, pick RoF. But if I am going to use FnB for trash/mythics wouldn't incinerate be better in the long run? Even against single target its probably only a 1-2% total dps increase but at least it's not a 100% dead talent like RoF would be.

    I don't know the numbers on any of this, just my personal experiences from the beta.

  16. #3596
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I've been raiding in a us top 10 guild for the last 2 xpacs as a warlock (and will continue to do so in legion).

    I've seen your posts, you're just really hyperbolic and not at all objective. Makes it hard to take you seriously when you're posting things like "the spec has been gutted and destroyed"
    I don't care if you're the president of the universe. You have no idea what you're talking about. Legion destruction has completely sucked all depth and complexity out of the spec. Your comment saying "Legion destro is the most complex it's ever been" is baffling.

    The spec has been gutted and destroyed. It's the damn truth, don't go around throwing out buzzwords to try to make my claim false.

  17. #3597
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiyoKozuki View Post
    I don't care if you're the president of the universe. You have no idea what you're talking about. Legion destruction has completely sucked all depth and complexity out of the spec. Your comment saying "Legion destro is the most complex it's ever been" is baffling.

    The spec has been gutted and destroyed. It's the damn truth, don't go around throwing out buzzwords to try to make my claim false.
    Yes, please tell me more stories about how WoD Destruction is complex and advanced, I need a good laugh.

    I bet you are one of those guys who for some reason thinks that sniping Shadowburn and correctly using Havoc and F&B requires anything more than 3 brain cells and a couple of mouseover macros.

    To make it short - no it's not complex and FYI I played Destruction exclusively pretty much most of WoD. Feck, I'd say Legion Destruction is quite a bit more "complex", unless you pick passives in every damned talent row.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-08-28 at 04:48 AM.

  18. #3598
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes, please tell me more stories about how WoD Destruction is complex and advanced, I need a good laugh.

    I bet you are one of those guys who for some reason thinks that sniping Shadowburn and correctly using Havoc and F&B requires anything more than 3 brain cells and a couple of mouseover macros.

    To make it short - no it's not complex and FYI I played Destruction exclusively pretty much most of WoD. Feck, I'd say Legion Destruction is quite a bit more "complex", unless you pick passives in every damned talent row.
    It required more skill and strategy than any other spec in WOD. Also vastly more than Destro, so yes.

    Anyone who thinks legion Destro is more complex, or complex at all is just flat out wrong and lying.

  19. #3599
    A wise man told me don't argue with fools
    Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who

    - Jay-Z

  20. #3600
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    To make it short - no it's not complex and FYI I played Destruction exclusively pretty much most of WoD. Feck, I'd say Legion Destruction is quite a bit more "complex", unless you pick passives in every damned talent row.
    I can understand people singing MOP destruction's praises, but I find it hard to understand why anyone would champion WOD's over it.

    Unless my brain is completely rotten, MOP had all WOD had but with more punishing resource management without CR ramping generation through the roof (at least at lower gear levels) and dot snapshotting giving you some more decision making.

    I can understand people having issues with Legion destro - Chaos Bolts feel a bit flacid, SB being sectioned off to a talent that often won't be viable and I really hate the changes to resource generation, I thought embers were soulshards done right. Far less RNG and made the filler feel meaningful. Can't really understand complaints over the difficulty being gutted after WOD.

    I guess destro has lost the baseline "skill" of SB sniping and pre-havoc-ing, but those both feel like small potatoes compared to what was lost going from MOP -> WOD, and destro was being slated as being too simple for most of MOP.

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