Already too much to do before raids in Legion

[lunchbox2042]

I would rather always have something to do then do everything and think to myself "man I wish I could play more but I'm out of content for the day".

[ItsTiddles]

People who complain I imagine are similar to those people who do 20-percentile parses but ask questions like "should I change my tauren boomkin to troll to do better dps?"

They think "correct" race, class, spec, enough ilvl or artifact power will give them an "I win" button and mysteriously turn them into Serenity raiders, and then sweat and cry when they can't achieve their goal, despite not realizing that goal is pointless and will not provide them what they crave.

While in reality there's only a handful of mythic guilds in a world's scale that require players to absolutely min max, the rest comprises of casual players only a bit more skilled than average, and on top of it, interested in organized raiding in the long run. In those guilds gms can't enforce anything players weren't willing to do already because they would have to replace the whole roster and that's not feasible.

This x10000. I don't get why people think they have to grind more than they want to, when 1 or 2 points into a trait isn't going to matter that much at the average heroic/mythic level.

the community is a cesspool of idiots. these are type of people blizzard listens to when it comes to making the game easier because they are the majority of the player base.

You having an account and being here just means you're included in our cesspool.

[Deleted]

The problem is, if blizzard does what you ask, we lose content and you ruin the game for us. So what are you asking is literally to get 90% of ppl that are not mythic raiders to tolerate lack of content just so you can raid mythic without putting hour of work into it.

But if blizzard does what we say (more content) this means taht you will get to play the game that you like more and have more sources of gear than usual.

So your request would benefit no one but you and the mythic raiders at the expense of everybody else. That's why people are being rude, because you are being selfish.

Would you kindly explain how making a few blues very expensive at launch is content? You got a really low standard of "content" then.

You need to actually think about what is meaningful content. I sure dont see a few recipes made at the start of an expansion as meaningful content.
Meaningful content would be different dungeons with a variety of rewards and ways to obtain them, differentiated and varied quests with lore and rewards that suits the time and skill invested.

Gating the prep for competitive mythic raiding with expensive items is not content, it is a laughable excuse. I don't see me as the problem here, i see your view is.

[Echo of Soul]

The problem is, if blizzard does what you ask, we lose content and you ruin the game for us. So what are you asking is literally to get 90% of ppl that are not mythic raiders to tolerate lack of content just so you can raid mythic without putting hour of work into it.

The best part is that upgrades can come from anywhere in Legion. A BiS 895 titanforged tier set piece can drop in LFR. It's a lot less likely than from Mythic but the possibility is there. People with no restraint are gonna burn themselves out within the first two months trying to do all the content there is. Jobs will be lost, relationships will be crushed, but damn us regular folks are gonna have stuff to do everytime we login.

[Sluvs]

Would you kindly explain how making a few blues very expensive at launch is content? You got a really low standard of "content" then.

You need to actually think about what is meaningful content. I sure dont see a few recipes made at the start of an expansion as meaningful content.
Meaningful content would be different dungeons with a variety of rewards and ways to obtain them, differentiated and varied quests with lore and rewards that suits the time and skill invested.

The quests to improve your crafting is content.

World quest are content.

Mythic+ are content.

Suramar quests are content.

Artifact Weapons are content.

Busy work is content.

IF the only way for you to get your gear would be through crafting you would have a point, but you can get gear from many other sources. You are literally asking for a nerf(how easy you can obtain them) just because it would be too much work for you, but guess what? There are people that like crafting stuff, cutting their busy work is cutting their content.

Now, is that content that I would do? No, i personally dislike crafting, but I'm no advocating for removal of hours of busy work just because it would be to busy for me.

Also, I wasn't exactly responding to you either, so crafting was not exactly my point.

You ask for different dungeons? We got a lot of those in legion, and even a nifty system (mythic +) that helps you gear up and gives longevity for the dungeons. Quests with lore? crafting quests and world quests do that. You already have those things in legion.

Although i can see where you coming from, i don't agree with you. Mainly because you can get your gear from other sources and crafting isn't required.

- - - Updated - - -

The best part is that upgrades can come from anywhere in Legion. A BiS 895 titanforged tier set piece can drop in LFR. It's a lot less likely than from Mythic but the possibility is there. People with no restraint are gonna burn themselves out within the first two months trying to do all the content there is. Jobs will be lost, relationships will be crushed, but damn us regular folks are gonna have stuff to do everytime we login.

Yeah, i dont really know how to counter that problem though. I am a filthy casual, so I will love taking my time through the expansion, but the hardcore players will always burn themselves out, its the very nature of what they do, they will do everything they can to get BiS. Even with 100 + dungeons they would do it.

[Deleted]

The quests to improve your crafting is content.

World quest are content.

Mythic+ are content.

Suramar quests are content.

Artifact Weapons are content.

Busy work is content.

Just because i mention what is not meaningful content, does not mean you can disprove my argument by simply listing other sources of meaningful content.

Although the thing i emboldened is NOT meaningful content. Busy work is simply not content. You should be busy experiencing/playing/working on content itself.

Even if you try do the "its the journey that counts"argument it is simply not relevant here. There is always a goal you are busy working toward. Fx in main-story questline you might be busy doing it, but it is the questline and the rewards that follows that are the base for that content.

Busy work without content is like grinding mobs without drops, new experiences or challenge in combat. Simply worthless. (of course worth is subjective: point on that below)
Of course this can be refuted by putting in the question "well what is meaningful content?" But you are not even there yet.

[Sluvs]

Just because i mention what is not meaningful content, does not mean you can disprove my argument by simply listing other sources of meaningful content.

Although the thing i emboldened is NOT meaningful content. Busy work is simply not content. You should be busy experiencing/playing/working on content itself.

Even if you try do the "its the journey that counts"argument it is simply not relevant here. There is always a goal you are busy working toward. Fx in main-story questline you might be busy doing it, but it is the questline and the rewards that follows that are the base for that content.

Busy work without content is like grinding mobs without drops, new experiences or challenge in combat. Simply worthless. (of course worth is subjective: point on that below)
Of course this can be refuted by putting in the question "well what is meaningful content?" But you are not even there yet.

It's important to remember that you actually said that you wanted quests with lore and dungeons, you are getting those, dont ignore that part just because. I metioned those because of this part : Meaningful content would be different dungeons with a variety of rewards and ways to obtain them, differentiated and varied quests with lore and rewards that suits the time and skill invested.

And crafting is content, busy work is content, no matter how much you try to say it isnt. Because to get the materials you have to go through world quests, you have to go through crafting quests. The things that you need to do to get the materials are content. You are looking only from your perspective and forgetting that not everyone works for BiS gears. And again, you can get your gear through all the other content that I listed.

I'm not going to touch the "it's the journey that counts' argument because it doesn't really please me. But the fact is, in other to get the materials, they will play through the content. So I don't really understand your point, because to craft things in the first place, you have to go through world quests for example.

I'm not there yet because that would be another discussion and I don't want to open that can of worms. My point is even that "BUsy work" it's not exactly busy work, and there are people that enjoy it.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

This is the WoW community in a nutshell. Though after WoD, I am surprised ANYONE would complain about having too much to do.
I just want to take these brainless morons, load them up into my Garrison and then nuke the site from orbit.

The problem is that Blizz overreact swing from 0 > 100% every time something is wrong. Demo lock and WW Monks to strong? np letz nerf them to unplayble state for the whole Expac. To mutch grind in MOP? np here you have WOD with nothnig to do.... And now again WOD had nothing to do ? Np here you have Legion with unlimited grind.

[Echo of Soul]

Yeah, i dont really know how to counter that problem though. I am a filthy casual, so I will love taking my time through the expansion, but the hardcore players will always burn themselves out, its the very nature of what they do, they will do everything they can to get BiS. Even with 100 + dungeons they would do it.

Well it's really about the numbers. If a minority of the playerbase will burn themselves out it's really preferable to 5 million people quitting the game for lack of content. Blizzard probably lost a ton of money in subscriptions because of WOD where there was nothing but raiding to do.

[Deleted]

My guild raids mythic, and i am looking forward to raiding as an Unholy DK.

What i am not looking forward to is the incredible grind to 850 ilvl and forced gathering/crafting combo spending vast sums of money on crafting and re-running the same mythic dungeons while grinding AP like crazy.

It feels so unflexible and grindy. I am forced not to spend more than 12 lvls of AP on my off-tank spec, so i cant competitively tank anything later (and tanking is what gets you groups and faster pulls).


Dont get me wrong, i dont want everything served to me. But is it really that hard to ask for crafting/crafting or gathering/gathering to be viable like it have been for over 10 years?

Is it too much to ask we are not forced to re-run dungeons until our hands fall off so we can enter Mythic raiding?

I welcome a challenge in skill. I am not sure i welcome a challenge in staying awake.

Its an even playfield,everybody interested in mythic raiding will have to dedicate the same amount of time to prepare for it, well yeah, some time ago people had to come prepared with flasks, food, drums and whatever to get a raidspot but people complained...so we got WoD, expansion designed only for mythic raiders where you didnt have to leave your garrison and all there was to do was raiding...and it was total shit, lets be honest here.

The question is: is it okay that all you have to do to raid mythic is to log in 3 times a week for 3-4 hours? And thats it? And you can fill any role with any class/spec maxed out because free max lvl characters are catered to you these days?

From the looks of it I would say you are extremely exaggerating the situation, Legion mythic raids are not designed for stacking fotm classes, whole expansion follows different philosophy. Its not expected for you to have 2-3 fully compatible off-specs all the time. So dont worry, even with shitty offspec artifact your gear will be pretty much usable for any spec, its not like you have to spend millions of gold for 2-3 sets of gear...

[Deleted]

there's no way to win, I really pity the Blizzard's designers

[Darkguyver2020]

The problem is that Blizz overreact swing from 0 > 100% every time something is wrong. Demo lock and WW Monks to strong? np letz nerf them to unplayble state for the whole Expac. To mutch grind in MOP? np here you have WOD with nothnig to do.... And now again WOD had nothing to do ? Np here you have Legion with unlimited grind.

I would take a grind any day over AFKing in my Garrison.

[pmkaboo]

and the winner of this thread is... this guy:

Most of the people complaining are nowhere near world top 25. People who are up there as you said, know what they signed up for. Those who don't want to be there even though they have the skills, just populate slower progressed mythic guilds, but still see content done within reasonable timeframe just without bleeding and sweating themselves, they also accept the tradeoff.

People who complain I imagine are similar to those people who do 20-percentile parses but ask questions like "should I change my tauren boomkin to troll to do better dps?"

They think "correct" race, class, spec, enough ilvl or artifact power will give them an "I win" button and mysteriously turn them into Serenity raiders, and then sweat and cry when they can't achieve their goal, despite not realizing that goal is pointless and will not provide them what they crave.

While in reality there's only a handful of mythic guilds in a world's scale that require players to absolutely min max, the rest comprises of casual players only a bit more skilled than average, and on top of it, interested in organized raiding in the long run. In those guilds gms can't enforce anything players weren't willing to do already because they would have to replace the whole roster and that's not feasible. If the guild consists of "raid loggers" good luck to any gm trying to change that. He'll be lucky if players show up with flasks and food and in gear that is easily obtainable from doing your daily hc, weekly mythic dungeons and a handful of dailies.

They'll just start from normal emerald nightmare and do a few mythic+ in the first week and get close to 850 without grinding like a slave for 3 weeks straight.

[satimy]

My only gripe is the stupid order hall thing, as it's gonna suck for alts

[Darkguyver2020]

My only gripe is the stupid order hall thing, as it's gonna suck for alts

At least the Order Hall campaigns are all unique for each class, unlike that boring Garrison campaign we got each week in WoD. It should soften the blow of playing multiple alts, unless you're like my dumbass friend who has 10 mage alts.

[Mayonnaise]

You having an account and being here just means you're included in our cesspool.

so, you same?

[Xires]

Welcome to the land of MMOs before you "hardcore raiders" destroyed the game with your whining about how there should only be raids to do in the game and nothing else. The reason we had WoD was because of the raiders complaining about being "forced" to do stuff in MoP to get gear, so then we got a game where litteraly the only thing you had to do in the game was sitting afk in your garrison and waiting for raid to start.

Yeah, that isn't true at all. We want something to do other then just raids. You're nuts if you think 5% of the playerbase had anything to do with blizzard decisions over the years on world content. It was casuals that complained about having to group up with people to accomplish elite quests and wanting to see the raid even if it meant implementing something like LFR so they could see it and made "epic" just another color.

Now questing is a chore because of how easy/boring it has gotten (maybe legion will be a step in the right direction) and it's all because of the "I cant" rather then the "I can" crowd as you claim.

[Inci]

Unholy DK

challenge in skill

I just cant ignore this.

[ItsTiddles]

so, you same?

I did say our cesspool, after all.

[mistahwilshire]

I would rather always have something to do then do everything and think to myself "man I wish I could play more but I'm out of content for the day".

This is the type of player Blizzard should have always built the game around.

Not having enough time to do everything is an infinitely better problem to have than paying for a subscription game you can't really play more than 12 hrs a week.