So here come the pvp nerfs.

[Deleted]

Monks have a slow because you're clearly ignorant of their inferior tools. Roll is 10 seconds longer recharge per charge, does not move you to the target destination as rapidly, and flying serpent kick is a whopping 25 sec cd.

Monk's Windwalking is a mere 10% movement speed while demonhunter baseline is a 20%+ movement speed that also scales up with mastery.

Monk's roll does not do upwards of 18% of their total damage, in fact it does no damage whatsoever. They grabbed Chi Torpedo from monks, and gave it to demonhunters with a 10 sec lesser recharge.

Monk's defensive cd, touch of karma, is a 1.5 min cd that can be dispelled by ice block, cloak of shadows, etc. Blur cannot be dispelled, and is a 1 minute cooldown.

Monk's damage is all built into fists of fury, a 20 sec cd. Their fillers do jackshit for damage. Demonhunter's bulk of the damage is on chaos strike, an ability that is not channeled and doesn't require a setup stun to land.

Monk's DPS cooldown, SEF, is made of retarded AI clones that can be rooted/snared and made useless. Or they can talent into serenity for an inferior version of SEF and lose access to whirling dragon punch, a burst skill.

So, yeah, way to talk cluelessly about monks being advantaged when monks are just a crappier demonhunter.

"Monk's damage is all built into fists of fury, a 20 sec cd. Their fillers do jackshit for damage. Demonhunter's bulk of the damage is on chaos strike, an ability that is not channeled and doesn't require a setup stun to land."

No. Just, just no.

[Shirofune]

Monks have a slow because you're clearly ignorant of their inferior tools. Roll is 10 seconds longer recharge per charge, does not move you to the target destination as rapidly, and flying serpent kick is a whopping 25 sec cd.

Monk's Windwalking is a mere 10% movement speed while demonhunter baseline is a 20%+ movement speed that also scales up with mastery.

Monk's roll does not do upwards of 18% of their total damage, in fact it does no damage whatsoever. They grabbed Chi Torpedo from monks, and gave it to demonhunters with a 10 sec lesser recharge.

Monk's defensive cd, touch of karma, is a 1.5 min cd that can be dispelled by ice block, cloak of shadows, etc. Blur cannot be dispelled, and is a 1 minute cooldown.

Monk's damage is all built into fists of fury, a 20 sec cd. Their fillers do jackshit for damage. Demonhunter's bulk of the damage is on chaos strike, an ability that is not channeled and doesn't require a setup stun to land.

Monk's DPS cooldown, SEF, is made of retarded AI clones that can be rooted/snared and made useless. Or they can talent into serenity for an inferior version of SEF and lose access to whirling dragon punch, a burst skill.

So, yeah, way to talk cluelessly about monks being advantaged when monks are just a crappier demonhunter.

Ill just quote your last phrase.

Monks are actually better than Demon Hunters in everything but burst damage, and we will see when raids come in sustained DPS.

Actually, I'm going to talk a bit about Fel Rush. Yeah, it is Chi Torpedo with damage. Do you know what's wrong about it? Blizzard expects Demon Hunters to use their mobility skills to do damage. As a Monk, well, you know, you use them for displacement as you're supposed to.

This is one of the reasons of why I think Momentum will be changed eventually, even tho I love the playstyle.

And please, stop being so offensive trying to defend your arguments, you really sound like a jerk when you start your posts calling people ignorant.

[Mayonnaise]

Thank God they got nerfed.

[slime]

I think DHs thought they would be straight OP all legion, like DKs in Wrath. And DKs still. Nah, thank the lord of light that hero classes are rare, and stupid as fuck.

[Malygaa]

I think DHs thought they would be straight OP all legion, like DKs in Wrath. And DKs still. Nah, thank the lord of light that hero classes are rare, and stupid as fuck.

Right, because aside from starting at level 98 and being called a "hero class" DHs and DKs are just soooooooooooo much different than every other class, right?

Oh, no, they're not at all and that's incredibly stupid reason to call something stupid as fuck. I don't think anyone though DHs would be OP for all of legion in, of all places, PvP.

[Lucrece]

"Monk's damage is all built into fists of fury, a 20 sec cd. Their fillers do jackshit for damage. Demonhunter's bulk of the damage is on chaos strike, an ability that is not channeled and doesn't require a setup stun to land."

No. Just, just no.

Yes.

http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...a47d00a5549105

Yes. Blackout Kick is 10.6% of the total damage. Tiger palm is 4.4%.

For reference, Fists of Fury is 19.3% and Rising Sun Kick 15.6%.

Right, because aside from starting at level 98 and being called a "hero class" DHs and DKs are just soooooooooooo much different than every other class, right?

Oh, no, they're not at all and that's incredibly stupid reason to call something stupid as fuck. I don't think anyone though DHs would be OP for all of legion in, of all places, PvP.

Hmmm, let's see.

Class unique mount. 20%+ passive movement speed scaling with mastery. Double jump (and all its obvious advantages, in case you have ran a place like Skyreach, its applications should be obvious, as is any boss with a knockback mechanic which you can negate with glide). Glide built in without engineering and reactivated.

DK's: Groupwide toggle for waterwalking, didn't have to pay for weapon enchants (they removed that perk this expansion, making DK's even less unique) since they got their own for free that were BiS the entire expansion.

Death Grip, among the most unique utilities in-game. Blood DK gets gorefiend's grasp, the only mass aoe long range pull in the game.

Class unique ground and flying mounts.

Soooo....yeah, I'd consider hero classes fairly unique.

[Vorality]

Yes.

http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...a47d00a5549105

Yes. Blackout Kick is 10.6% of the total damage. Tiger palm is 4.4%.

For reference, Fists of Fury is 19.3% and Rising Sun Kick 15.6%.



Hmmm, let's see.

Class unique mount. 20%+ passive movement speed scaling with mastery. Double jump (and all its obvious advantages, in case you have ran a place like Skyreach, its applications should be obvious, as is any boss with a knockback mechanic which you can negate with glide). Glide built in without engineering and reactivated.

DK's: Groupwide toggle for waterwalking, didn't have to pay for weapon enchants (they removed that perk this expansion, making DK's even less unique) since they got their own for free that were BiS the entire expansion.

Death Grip, among the most unique utilities in-game. Blood DK gets gorefiend's grasp, the only mass aoe long range pull in the game.

Class unique ground and flying mounts.

Soooo....yeah, I'd consider hero classes fairly unique.

Shamans get totems and ghost wolf. Druids get shapeshifting and travel forms. Rogues have stealth. Warlocks summon mass pets and have their own class mount. Paladins have bubbles, only class with buffs still, and unique mount. All the classes are fairly unique, so I fail to see your point.

And you're letting PvE dps numbers to judge what will go on in PvP, that's just silly. Serenity, Touch of Death, Touch of Karma, heals whenever they are getting kited by the target, free trinket. You're insane if you think DH is a better Monk. 9 times out of 10 a monk will beat out a DH in PvP. Monk sees meta and touch of karma goes out. Which means the DH isn't healing, and the monk gets to slow and go crazy on them.

[Lucrece]

Heals when they're getting kited? You do realize that Effuse is a stationary, interruptible 1.5 sec cast that costs energy and heals for less than 4% of your health pool per cast, right?

Warlocks having pets is not unique, shapeshifting is not unique since shamans also shapeshift, totems are gone (yet another clueless point from you), rogues have stealth that is shared by feral druids and a night elf racial, and the class mounts for warlocks and paladins are vanilla texture, ancient mounts (not to mention, recycled horse mounts to boot) unlike the updated, high rez ones of demonhunters.

Serenity is not a damage spell, touch of karma is not a damage spell unless retards are hitting you with it up, and touch of karma will do less damage total in a fight than even blackout kick...especially since it deals reduced damage in pvp.

[Vorality]

Heals when they're getting kited? You do realize that Effuse is a stationary, interruptible 1.5 sec cast that costs energy and heals for less than 4% of your health pool per cast, right?

Warlocks having pets is not unique, shapeshifting is not unique since shamans also shapeshift, totems are gone (yet another clueless point from you), rogues have stealth that is shared by feral druids and a night elf racial, and the class mounts for warlocks and paladins are vanilla texture, ancient mounts (not to mention, recycled horse mounts to boot) unlike the updated, high rez ones of demonhunters.

Serenity is not a damage spell, touch of karma is not a damage spell unless retards are hitting you with it up, and touch of karma will do less damage total in a fight than even blackout kick...especially since it deals reduced damage in pvp.

You do realize a monk can use their mobility to get out of LoS right? You do realize it heals for much more than 4% of their health pool, right? You do realize DH doesn't have this option, right? Quit making excuses for monks, lol. Touch of Karma NEGATES further damage to be done which results in cooldowns to be wasted and the monk to freely pound on their target. Death does upwards of 600k WITH ONE BUTTON - 600000 DAMAGE. And Serenity doesn't do damage? My lord man, you're reaching so hard for excuses...yeah...it only makes the monk do 40% more damage, ALMOST DOUBLE the damage increase of any other cooldown in the GAME. Oh, and you do increased healing, cast for free, and have everything else reduced CD...totally a shit spell.

And if you think the fel saber is such a badass mount, you may want to get your eyes checked. Totems are gone? Storm elemental, Fire elemental, Earth Elemental? Cloudburst? Windfury totem is back, vodoo totem (A FREAKING AOE HEX), Earthgrab, Lighting Surge? - I hope you got the point here.

And there's nothing "Vanilla texture" about the mounts, it's the same damn engine they're working off of. Not to mention the Warlock/Paladin mounts were at least EARNED at one point. Hell, you get to have a free DH and a mount for having a level 70 character - SO UNIQUE.

The only thing unique about the DH is the double jump. And the only thing unique about DK is a reverse charge, wooh. Other classes have water walking abilities, just not AoE. If you want to complain about a class being more unique than the rest - go complain in the mage forums. The only class the has unlimited travel abilities at their leisure.

[meatfresh]

Tell me this isnt the fastest that you have ever seen a nerf hit. pvp mastery is down and primary stats lowered by a flat rate because they are doing too much damage. they are also squishy as hell. dks are still the OP self heal masters and yet nothing is done. there is finally a class that has a chance to burst them down one to one and they get nerfed. that seems very very unfair.

What OP DK self heals were you referring to lol?

[ldev]

totems are gone (yet another clueless point from you)

lol, stop talking, don't make a fool of yourself, loll

[MixelPlx]

These issues were pointed out leading up to Launch for months, literally.

In the hands of someone who knows how to play Demon Hunter, you can shred people with ease.
These nerfs worry me. Even in a "OP" state, you could still die in a stun easily with Blur/Darkness off CD.

Now they are nerfing one of our most needed survival talents by 2 seconds & the general stat squish for pvp? Ehh. We'll have to see how it plays out.

All being said - Rogues still will be doing some insane burst.

[Bloodmagix]

I've been mainly playing my DH purely for the fact they were too OP, was needed but a bit harsh.

[ElDoorO]

Fel rush failing most of the time? Nerf the mastery, ignore fel rush bug.

[Snegovik]

Guys, DH NEEDED the nerfs, the burst was too stupid in PvP, it had to go down. Besides no1 here mentioned a buff in D-cds for DH from PvP talents, when ever you use retreat your blur is activated for 3 seconds: Glimpse (Havoc) now grants 3 seconds of Blur (was 1.5 seconds)
and you can lower CD on your retreat

We all here can agree that DH are very soft outside of Meta, and need better survival. Blizzard can not buff DH's survival and let it have its OP burst. I think it was a step towards right direction improving DH survival and lowering its Burst.

Also for ppl who are getting kited as DH in PvP, honestly only MM hunter should give you problems, for casters you have range kick, range Stun that does a good chunk of dmg, you have strong range abilities, that applies dot and 50% slow if specked, which can not be dispelled, you have EB which becomes part of your ST rotation when you get ur Artifacts, you can place a watchful eye on a caster so that it takes dmg and refreshes eye's duration when casts spells, and ya DH have FRs, VR, 2x jump/Glide, in arena DH should have no issue sticking to a target with a half decent healer and its dmg is insane.

Who ever said that WW can beat DH in 1v1, hence WW is better, you clearly don't understand that PvP is balanced around 3v3 and not duels.

If you want to complain about DPS classes that really get kited, look at Ret, 30 sec cd slow which can be dispelled, our freedoms can be purges/SS/dispelled, our pony can be Slowed/CCed, we have no strong range abilities, only judgement and its crap, our "range" stun has 10 yard range, so you have to be almost in melee range to stun some1. DH is still very strong, and changes were much needed, yes you lost a tiny bit of your OP burst, but you got better Defensive cd.

Also the reason Monk's mobility is better and they have good slow and snare break, cuz they don't have strong range abilities like DH have. Monks better 1v1 yes, but in 3v3 rated arena where it matters, it is yet to be seen which dps class is better.

[Varlak]

If you want to complain about DPS classes that really get kited, look at Ret, 30 sec cd slow which can be dispelled, our freedoms can be purges/SS/dispelled, our pony can be Slowed/CCed, we have no strong range abilities, only judgement and its crap, our "range" stun has 10 yard range, so you have to be almost in melee range to stun some1. .

Because 1 class might have it worst doesnt mean DH mobility is fine. And actualy blizzard never really cared about Retribution so any argument involved ret pally is bad usualy. I've quited my paladin after BC and it was the best decision I have ever made about WoW.

Poeple get mad at DH mobility in PvP because blizzard labeled it as the most mobile class while if it can be argued for PvE its simply very far from beeing true in PvP.

DH could be the OP god DK have been in 3s poeple would still be mad because ATM they are so easely kitted.

[Snegovik]

Because 1 class might have it worst doesnt mean DH mobility is fine. And actualy blizzard never really cared about Retribution so any argument involved ret pally is bad usualy. I've quited my paladin after BC and it was the best decision I have ever made about WoW.

Poeple get mad at DH mobility in PvP because blizzard labeled it as the most mobile class while if it can be argued for PvE its simply very far from beeing true in PvP.

DH could be the OP god DK have been in 3s poeple would still be mad because ATM they are so easely kitted.

DH mobility is Fine, far better than majority of classes. I brought Ret as an example, so that all ppl who say that DH have it terrible, can view in perspective.

[Shirofune]

DH mobility is Fine, far better than majority of classes. I brought Ret as an example, so that all ppl who say that DH have it terrible, can view in perspective.

Rets being crap since Cataclysm doesn't change the fact DHs are kited easily and are sold as a high mobility class, lacking both slow and slow/snare breaks.

[ldev]

Umh, glaive toss?.. Ranged 50% snare. Vengeful retreat - 70% melee range snare, although kinda wastes fel rush charge because you will need to charge in.

[Breccia]

Tell me this isnt the fastest that you have ever seen a nerf hit

Okay. "This isn't the fastest that I have ever seen a nerf hit."

All kidding aside, it does feel like testing this expac was...not monitored very well, to be gracious.