RIP Legion Enhancement Shaman PvP - Don't say I didn't tell you so...

[Professor Expert]

So I just got around to trying out my enhancement shaman for the first time after the v7 patch and it's about as bad as I thought it would be. The biggest issue is the feel that it used to have, the feeling that made it fun to play, is now gone.

I don't really want to make a big list of problems, but suffice it to say that the few improvements they made, such as having ghost wolf prevent movement speed from dropping below 100%, do not offset the crappy new paradigm of having to build up maelstrom to do any kind of significant damage.

What I like:
- Ghost Wolf is now the way it should have been all along.
- Instant healing surge that consumes maelstrom allows for multiple instant heals in a row.
- We actually enhance our teammates, but the degree to which we do isn't all that great and very conditional.

What I dislike:
- No grounding totem? Seriously, wtf.

- Purge is super-expensive; we can only use it 5 times before going OOM (but I guess we are supposed to be thankful that it's still in the game at all).

- Speaking of totems, we don't have any. No earthbind? No healing stream? Come on. Totems were a part of any shaman spec like pets are to huntards and spells are to mages.

- You'll die in a stun. Standard pvp trinket is now on 3 min (without honor talents). No more shamanistic rage to dispel paladin or huntard stuns. You get one incredibly weak defensive CD, astral shift, and it's a long 1.5 min CD with a short duration. Worst of all it is NOT usable in a stun.

- Lava Lash is essentially pointless. It costs maelstrom but does about as much damage as boulderfist...and no, the "hot hand" talent is not worth taking over boulderfist.

- The rockbiter/boulderfist sound effect is indescribably annoying.

- Stormstrike is both expensive and on a CD that is far too long. It relies on stormbringer proc along with the "tempest" talent to be useful, which also means that ascendance is useless now because if you use ascendance without a stormbringer proc you'll get one windstrike (stormstrike) off and then incur a CD that lasts for the duration of ascendance.

- Ascendance is now a talent, 3 min CD is too long for what it is and it relies on a RNG proc to be effective. Without the proc it's useless, thus rendering our big DPS CD to being wolves.

- Wolves do not heal anymore, but the maelstrom they generate can allow you to spam heal yourself for the short time they are up. Their duration has been cut to 15s while the CD remains 2m. Bad. They should last longer or do more while they are active, and should be immune to all CC.

- Lightning shield is now a worthless talent. Ancestral Swiftness should be a spec passive not a talent. Hailstorm is the ONLY way to go on that tier.

- Frostbrand requires maelstrom so we cannot snare from range now that frost shock is out. All shocks were removed, which is stupid, but the lack of frost shock for enhancement is incredibly stupid. Frostbrand only slows for 3 sec before the snare must be reapplied, making it incredibly easy to kite an enhance shaman. So so so bad.

- Not fun anymore. Sadly, enhancement now feels like a clunky and less-capable warrior or deathknight...exactly as bad as I thought it would be when I read the proposed changes earlier.

I will add that while the artifact weapon and honor talents which become available later may make playing as enhancement a bit more tolerable, neither of these things will make it fun again. Enhancement shaman, what used to be the most spec in the game hands-down, is now just another memory.

[rdaccord]

the sky isnt falling, its just that pve and pvp is based around 110 with the pvp talent system unlocked. Its very very fun at that lvl, go watch some beta videos and have your spirits lifted once again.

[jinsu]

how can you complain about PVP when you don't have your honor talents or your artifact? Wait until the first season before you start crying.

[Professor Expert]

the sky isnt falling, its just that pve and pvp is based around 110 with the pvp talent system unlocked. Its very very fun at that lvl, go watch some beta videos and have your spirits lifted once again.

I have seen 110 pvp videos and it's like my last paragraph said. They'll still play like DKs/Warriors. Enhancement always had a unique and enjoyable feel.

how can you complain about PVP when you don't have your honor talents or your artifact? Wait until the first season before you start crying.

Are you disputing any of my points, or claiming that they won't still be problematic at level 110? If they were going to change enhancement drastically like they did, they shouldn't have removed almost everything that made the spec fun and interesting.

Enhance Shaman PvP was a thing? I had no idea.

Yes it was and they were very formidable in PvP, up until now at least.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

its not going to be easy, we need a ranged snare and a rework for ascendence so it doesnt require procs but we wont be completely terrible

[xogen]

Not being able to use defensives in stuns is healthy for the game and makes it more skill based. Just like in wotlk <3

[Professor Expert]

Not being able to use defensives in stuns is healthy for the game and makes it more skill based. Just like in wotlk <3

Having to use a stun to compete is the epitome of lack of skill.

[Usagi Senshi]

Agreed, its one of the reasons I switched to my monk as my Horde main in Legion.

Now I have better control, defenses, and far more mobility.

[Maerad]

So I just got around to trying out my enhancement shaman for the first time after the v7 patch and it's about as bad as I thought it would be. The biggest issue is the feel that it used to have, the feeling that made it fun to play, is now gone.

What I dislike:
- No grounding totem? Seriously, wtf.

- Purge is super-expensive; we can only use it 5 times before going OOM (but I guess we are supposed to be thankful that it's still in the game at all).

Just a quick note on that - they removed basically all buffs, so purge won't be used in 95% of the matches and if, then someone has a skill active but I guess you cant remove them. Every Class I played so far (and I have every class on 100) had their buffs removed and no or one stun, some specs don't even have stuns or interrupts at all.

Before you start to judge, please wait for the legion update and reach lvl 110. After you have your artefact weapon and all talents, you can decide if it sucks or not. Right now every class is missing a fuckload on skills and stuff. some classes are like 2-button-players...

[Nzo]

To summarize:

OP pvp'd at level 100 were everything is essentially broken at the moment because of the pre-patch (My DH can faceroll 2 - 3 people with 3 buttons)
OP is pvping without his honor talents

I've watched Cartoonz do a little bit of enhancement shaman pvp on the beta and he seems to do fine in 3v3 setting, perhaps not as good as a warrior would but still good enough.

Also Cartoonz pointed out that enhamcenet shaman is not "bad" per say but is by far one of the hardest melee classes to master in a pvp setting now due to having to setup our burst and knowing how and when to engage in a fight.

Here is his rundown with some pvp footage at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZMe96fWfg

[Aggrophobic]

To summarize:

OP pvp'd at level 100 were everything is essentially broken at the moment because of the pre-patch (My DH can faceroll 2 - 3 people with 3 buttons)
OP is pvping without his honor talents

I've watched Cartoonz do a little bit of enhancement shaman pvp on the beta and he seems to do fine in 3v3 setting, perhaps not as good as a warrior would but still good enough.

Also Cartoonz pointed out that enhamcenet shaman is not "bad" per say but is by far one of the hardest melee classes to master in a pvp setting now due to having to setup our burst and knowing how and when to engage in a fight.

Here is his rundown with some pvp footage at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZMe96fWfg

Not bad but still the sec worst spec after fury warrior.

[hellar]

turbo is one of the stronger cleave comps. enh damg is very strong. survivability could be better. but by no means bad. very viable spec

[Professor Expert]

Just a quick note on that - they removed basically all buffs, so purge won't be used in 95% of the matches and if, then someone has a skill active but I guess you cant remove them. Every Class I played so far (and I have every class on 100) had their buffs removed and no or one stun, some specs don't even have stuns or interrupts at all.

Before you start to judge, please wait for the legion update and reach lvl 110. After you have your artefact weapon and all talents, you can decide if it sucks or not. Right now every class is missing a fuckload on skills and stuff. some classes are like 2-button-players...

That's not entirely accurate. Purge was used to deal with HoTs and bubbles, which are spammed quite frequently. The nerf to purge limits us to 5 before going OOM. I will say that I haven't had to use it as much as before, but I don't see the need to limit it; it's not like there aren't multiple ways for any class to shut down an enhance as it is now.

You're confusing "fun to play" with "pvp competitiveness". I never said that level 110 enhancement shaman are not competitive in pvp, I am saying that they're not nearly as fun to play as before due to the changes that made them into gimped dual-wielding death knights.

Plus, none of the issues I mentioned, critically among them being the lack of frost shock, get resolved at 110.

To summarize:

OP pvp'd at level 100 were everything is essentially broken at the moment because of the pre-patch (My DH can faceroll 2 - 3 people with 3 buttons)
OP is pvping without his honor talents

I've watched Cartoonz do a little bit of enhancement shaman pvp on the beta and he seems to do fine in 3v3 setting, perhaps not as good as a warrior would but still good enough.

Also Cartoonz pointed out that enhamcenet shaman is not "bad" per say but is by far one of the hardest melee classes to master in a pvp setting now due to having to setup our burst and knowing how and when to engage in a fight.

Here is his rundown with some pvp footage at the end: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZMe96fWfg

I saw the same video and others. I've been playing enhancement for a long time, being very competitive in times when most said it was a bad spec. I wasn't wrong about the legion changes making it unfun compared to what it was. I can still hold my own at level 100 in pvp; the things I pointed out are not "broken at 100 and fixd at 110". We do not get frost shock and that feral leap is not compensation for it. Replacing unleash elements with frostbrand/flametongue was stupid, but even stupidder was making frostbrand cost maelstrom instead of being free like the flametongue.

Aside from having more damage options and maybe slightly better survivability from honor talents, what of the things I listed are untrue at 110? Enhancement needed some relatively minor tweaks, like ghost wolf working as it does now and the "frozen power" effect being baked into frost shock for enhancement only.

Not bad but still the sec worst spec after fury warrior.

Fury warriors are pure glass cannons now. They are a random BG spec, but because of the +30% damage taken when enraged it's another spec that would fail in rated pvp, as it will be trained like a blue.

turbo is one of the stronger cleave comps. enh damg is very strong. survivability could be better. but by no means bad. very viable spec

It was never not viable; enhancement is no longer unique and fun. The tired old "build-spend" resources system is a lazy cop-out to make go from having unique classes to "reskinned" versions of one class. I mean, you change a few ability names and animations and there is very little difference between enhance, warrior or DK...except that of the 3, enhance seems to have drawn the short straw again.

[Krabkilla]

I just did enh, resto druid, affliction warlock in 3s (pre-release). Almost every match I was top of the damage and the burst was insane. I was taking down healers in seconds if I timed my cds with my procs right.

Since this game is scaled to 110 already; I think I will be even stronger in arenas. Kiting didn't bother me, the self heal was live saving, and the ability to burst a healer through heals was phenomenal. We aren't going to be as bad as people think since most of our damage will come from the artifact weapon. Yeah, it's a little harder to play, but I still think it's viable. I'm aiming for 2200+ maybe even gladiator this upcoming season and I think it's very very possible.

[Deleted]

Pick orc, take relentless


Enjoy being immortal since you can't get stunned!

[coldcell]

I really want to play Enh Shaman, but I'm not sure if I'm just gimping myself. We have no way to catch up (when I Feral Leap, most of the time my opponent is running so I end up FL and he's immediately out of range). The loss of SR and FR are big. Definition of glass cannon, only glass cannon do 0 damage when dead.

I'm really tempted to pick up WW Monk even though I like the feel and looks of Enh Shaman.

[Fitsu]

Holy hell, how can u create such a long post about something that hasn't even begun yet?

Enh is perfectly fine... Borderline OP atm. You can give BL to a team mate, have a charge & cc break, ghost wolf, decent self heals, insane burst, nice support skills, a decent stun, decent offensive & defensive cooldowns, on-hit slow, ranged interrupt and a cooldown which makes your hardest hitting spell ranged.

With decent procs, I've 3 shot people atm and outside of DHs easily out damaged any other class... Your not supposed to have everything and be this immortal, impossible to kite beast. They feel strong, certainly viable atm and thanks to the bloodlust pretty much staple for ANY melee cleave team... We're in a very good spot atm.

[lokithor]

What do you mean Legion? Didn´t it die in BC?

WTB 2h Windfury crits lol.

[Professor Expert]

Holy hell, how can u create such a long post about something that hasn't even begun yet?

It has begun and I'm 110 now; I stand by my original post.

Enh is perfectly fine... Borderline OP atm. You can give BL to a team mate, have a charge & cc break, ghost wolf, decent self heals, insane burst, nice support skills, a decent stun, decent offensive & defensive cooldowns, on-hit slow, ranged interrupt and a cooldown which makes your hardest hitting spell ranged.

I can tell you don't play enhance, but got rolled by one. Nobody who plays one would consider them "OP" because under certain special RNG conditions with celestial bodies aligned just right they can kill someone quickly...meanwhile something like a WW monk or demon hunter can consistently out-damage enhance. We still have a casted CC on a long CD, and lightning totem (aoe stun) is a talent when it should be baseline.

You then continue to rattle off a list of things we don't have. We do not have "defensive cooldowns". We have astral shift, one cooldown that is on 1.5 min CD and cuts damage by 40%. It is not usable while stunned. It's a huge step back from shamanistic rage, which was a 30% damage reduction on a 1 min CD that would remove magic debuffs when glyphed. We do not have a shield or any other passive mitigation beyond what everyone gets through honor talents.

We also have no "offensive" cooldowns anymore, unless you consider wolves to be a major cooldown, which it's not, all it really does is generate a lot of maelstrom...maelstrom that requires RNG procs to happen to be used effectively, lest we are stuck spamming the soft-hitting lava lash for a whopping 70K damage per hit.

So I have to ask, what class are you talking about? You seem to have confused WW with enhancement.

With decent procs, I've 3 shot people atm and outside of DHs easily out damaged any other class... Your not supposed to have everything and be this immortal, impossible to kite beast. They feel strong, certainly viable atm and thanks to the bloodlust pretty much staple for ANY melee cleave team... We're in a very good spot atm.

Yes, you had a good time in a BG and think that's reflective of pvp across the board...but it's not.

Why do people who make bad arguments assume that the only valid conditions are extremes? Like enhance is either highly kitable as it is now or it's "unkitable" like it never was before. No. We don't need that kind of inane thinking. Enhance was just fine with frost shock. We need a ranged snare that DOES NOT require maelstrom to use. Frost shock with frozen power and 60% of the problems are immediately better - nowhere did anyone demand to be immortal or unkitable. Give the hyperbole a rest.

Frost brand is garbage, a 30% slow that falls off after 3 sec is not enough to stay on a target effectively, especially one who knows how to kite. The ghost wolf charge is complete crap. There's a reason warriors' charge used to stun, and now roots their target - because it has to do that to be effective. Without a root or stun, the charge is a wasted talent with a long CD for what it is.

[Fitsu]

Offensive Cooldowns:
Wolves
Doom Hammer
Bloodlust
Ascendance
Honor Totem

Ok, yeah we lack defensive cooldowns but Astral Shift also heals for 30% hp, wolves allow for easy pillar hugging while constantly healing us and our heals are pretty damn strong with ~450k crits.

Frostbrand is a 50% slow on hit not 30% making it as easy as a rogue to keep on targets and I do consistantly do damage with my shaman, you claim I act like I don't even play the class but 80% of the information you've given is wrong.... Do you even play it or are u just ranting for the sake of ranting?