I'm worried rogue's low aoe will exclude them from keystone mythic runs

[shaunika123]

There will be quite a few tuning phases for early legion.

One after heroic dungeons are on farm. One when Mythic dungeon/raiding is released and probably a few touches after a week or two of raiding and guilds have done the first kills.

afaik watcher said that there wont be as much mid patch meddling as there was in WoD because people would feel like shit if their artifact weapon's worth kept fluctuating too much, so if there are no more nerfs before launch i wont expect anything major before 7.1

and anyway nerfing the legendary is quite an elegant way of going by it

[Xar226]

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to have a group 15 ilvls higher than the gear the raid drops, does that stop it from being the absolute norm in every pug? No. Just like only taking strong burst aoe will be the absolute norm for mythic key runs. Is it required, no. Will it be the norm, yes.

Then I guess the sky is falling and you should immediately reroll. Is that what you want to hear? Because it seems to be the only answer you're going to accept. If that's how you feel, just do it.

[RobertoCarlos]

afaik watcher said that there wont be as much mid patch meddling as there was in WoD because people would feel like shit if their artifact weapon's worth kept fluctuating too much, so if there are no more nerfs before launch i wont expect anything major before 7.1

and anyway nerfing the legendary is quite an elegant way of going by it

I saw when he said that, but he also said that they would be watching numbers and tweaking it by smaller amounts so it didn't swing specs from being OP to shit so people felt like they had wasted their time on that spec.

Perhaps the recent legendary nerfs are enough but if outlaw is best at both ST and AoE it won't last like that.

[shaunika123]

I saw when he said that, but he also said that they would be watching numbers and tweaking it by smaller amounts so it didn't swing specs from being OP to shit so people felt like they had wasted their time on that spec.

Perhaps the recent legendary nerfs are enough but if outlaw is best at both ST and AoE it won't last like that.

i wouldnt hold my breath on any other spec stealing the throne from outlaw until 7.1
they might make the gap smaller, but it wont be enough, even if outlaw is ahead just by 1% in ST that alone makes it the best spec due to it's AOE

[Will]

This post demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding in how mythic+ works. It's not like today's CMs:

1. Yes, you're timed, but not aggressively. The timer is just to make sure you don't take excessively long.
2. The entire group doesn't need to be AoE-heavy. Having someone who specialises in single target can be advantageous.
3. To expand on point #1: sometimes bursting down specific targets is preferable as it enables you to eliminate larger threats sooner.
4. Some keystone affixes actually render AoE detrimental. One of the affixes in particular makes AoE very dangerous.
5. As rogue you have cloak and surv. Also, lots of stuns - particularly for subtlety - and lots of burst for taking out targets of priority.
6. If you're the keystone holder, nobody can 'exclude' you -- you're the one calling the shots. It's your keystone; you get to choose who comes.
7. Removed.
8. If you run with guildies or friends then you won't get excluded either. If you pug and get kicked... well you chose to pug.
9. If your guildies or friends still won't take you, I feel bad for you. Find more friends, preferably less elitist ones? :P
10. Subject to change: The Dreadlord's Deceit legendary, if it stays around and doesn't get nerfed, will give amazing 'burst' AoE.

[shaunika123]

7. Use tomes to respec to suit the fight. AoE? Go Outlaw. Single target? Go mut/sub. The timer's much gentler - it's about completion.

last i checked you couldnt change specs in mythic+ im not sure about talents tho

[Wow]

last i checked you couldnt change specs in mythic+ im not sure about talents tho

You can't change anything in mythic +.

[Deleted]

Except that outlaw outperforms assasin and sub in aoe and single target.

Do you always answer to the comments on the first pages, days after they were posted? Also, I made that statement before everyone went on the outlaw bandwagon, because it was useless for 99% of the beta. But yes, outlaw is the best spec right now.

[Deleted]

Do you always answer to the comments on the first pages, days after they were posted? Also, I made that statement before everyone went on the outlaw bandwagon, because it was useless for 99% of the beta. But yes, outlaw is the best spec right now.

at that point, the results were already out, but sure. It was uselss for a very long time

[Varaben]

This post demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding in how mythic+ works. It's not like today's CMs:

1. Yes, you're timed, but not aggressively. The timer is just to make sure you don't take excessively long.
2. The entire group doesn't need to be AoE-heavy. Having someone who specialises in single target can be advantageous.
3. To expand on point #1: sometimes bursting down specific targets is preferable as it enables you to eliminate larger threats sooner.
4. Some keystone affixes actually render AoE detrimental. One of the affixes in particular makes AoE very dangerous.
5. As rogue you have cloak and surv. Also, lots of stuns - particularly for subtlety - and lots of burst for taking out targets of priority.
6. If you're the keystone holder, nobody can 'exclude' you -- you're the one calling the shots. It's your keystone; you get to choose who comes.
7. Removed.
8. If you run with guildies or friends then you won't get excluded either. If you pug and get kicked... well you chose to pug.
9. If your guildies or friends still won't take you, I feel bad for you. Find more friends, preferably less elitist ones? :P
10. Subject to change: The Dreadlord's Deceit legendary, if it stays around and doesn't get nerfed, will give amazing 'burst' AoE.

2. But as has been pointed out, Outlaw is on top of ST as well as cleave.
4. See point #2
5. All rogues have this, but is it better than other classes? I don't think it's so strong that people will bring rogues just because they are rogues, right?
10. Agreed; legendaries could swing one way or the other substantially, but blizz doesn't seem too scared to nerf these.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop with the blatant lying Outlaw outperforms assasin. in all categories.

Check the latest stats

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?...HxBKV_biTNzfRY

I guess we will see if it stays this way. Outlaw seems in another class where sub/assassination seem pretty close to one another. I think for me, I want to play Assassination, but if the sims hold true, I don't think it makes sense to put any AP into a non-Outlaw spec. That's kinda sad, but as people have pointed out: it'll get nerfed if it's the clear choice.

My assumption was that Outlaw was going to be the cleave king, as usual, but ST would be Sub or Assassination. With a good mix of raid bosses being one or the other, the specs would be "balanced" that way. Doesn't appear to be playing out unfortunately.

It's interesting to see the huge variation in Outlaw though. In most cases, the top end of the other specs is just the mean for Outlaw, meaning you'd be stupid to play the other specs...

[RobertoCarlos]

well it already kinda got one (legendary boots nerf from 50 to 20)

but an actual nerf'll be 7.1 at the earliest (probably a nerf to CotDB if i had to guess)

but by that time my sub artifact will be good enough to switch over, and if it doesnt get nerfed ill just continue upping the outlaw one.

Run Through damage reduced to 142% of Attack Power (was 150%).
Between the Eyes damage reduced to 85% of Attack Power (was 88.5%).

Called it yesterday lol

[shaunika123]

Run Through damage reduced to 142% of Attack Power (was 150%).
Between the Eyes damage reduced to 85% of Attack Power (was 88.5%).

Called it yesterday lol

yeah that totally destroyed outlaw

actually im the one who called it

they might make the gap smaller, but it wont be enough

direct quote from me :P

[RobertoCarlos]

yeah that totally destroyed outlaw

actually im the one who called it


direct quote from me :P

Nerfs don't have to destroy to be nerfs

And yea fair enough, it was pretty obvious. Just hope blizzard dont hit us too hard before live.

[unholyness]

i'm not a PvEr so pardon my ignorance but isn't M+ supposed to not just be an aoe fest?

Playing on beta for months, doing Mythic +10, trash has a lot of health and you have to clear a % of the trash, so yes AOE dmg matters, which is why you want to bring a class that does single/aoie dmg like mages/hunters

[Flurryfang]

2 specs right off the bat, sub and assassin, will probably not be invited to mythic key runs due to zero aoe effectiveness. I don't know about outlaw because I haven't really toyed around with it but I would guess that this fact alone will funnel everyone into outlaw and screw anyone that didn't have the foresight. Especially since mythic 10+ gives mythic raid gear equivalency.

You are not alone. Having next to no aoe as a assa rogue have excluded the spec from many fights in WoD. Even on normal/heroic lvl raiding content, assa rogues have been worse them pretty much all other classes when it comes to aoe by a huge amount. It has nothing to do with our numbers, yet more to do with our aoe rotation being none existent. Fan of Knives is a really bad aoe ability, and since it is the only aoe we got, then we are all out lost.

If Assa rogues don't get some kind of aoe tool, we will proberly be the last on priority lists, when it comes to fights with just a little damage demanding aoe. If we get more then 1 fight like Hellfire Assualt in Legion, then we might see the spec be sorted out from raid groups.

[Wow]

10. Subject to change: The Dreadlord's Deceit legendary, if it stays around and doesn't get nerfed, will give amazing 'burst' AoE.

I tried this out a few days ago it doesn't really help much you have to wait 1min for meh dmg and it only works once meanwhile the trash is alive and well and you are bad to doing trash dps.

[shaunika123]

You are not alone. Having next to no aoe as a assa rogue have excluded the spec from many fights in WoD. Even on normal/heroic lvl raiding content, assa rogues have been worse them pretty much all other classes when it comes to aoe by a huge amount. It has nothing to do with our numbers, yet more to do with our aoe rotation being none existent. Fan of Knives is a really bad aoe ability, and since it is the only aoe we got, then we are all out lost.

If Assa rogues don't get some kind of aoe tool, we will proberly be the last on priority lists, when it comes to fights with just a little damage demanding aoe. If we get more then 1 fight like Hellfire Assualt in Legion, then we might see the spec be sorted out from raid groups.

actually assa's "AOE" is pretty good in mythic+
they dont have burst AOE but they have sustained AOE once they manage to keep ruptures rolling, and they have decent ST damage in bosses
dont confuse mythic+ with CMs you dont pull 50 mobs and AOE them down you usually fight ~5 mobs on avg unless you outgear it

[Deleted]

2. But as has been pointed out, Outlaw is on top of ST as well as cleave.
4. See point #2
5. All rogues have this, but is it better than other classes? I don't think it's so strong that people will bring rogues just because they are rogues, right?
10. Agreed; legendaries could swing one way or the other substantially, but blizz doesn't seem too scared to nerf these.

- - - Updated - - -



I guess we will see if it stays this way. Outlaw seems in another class where sub/assassination seem pretty close to one another. I think for me, I want to play Assassination, but if the sims hold true, I don't think it makes sense to put any AP into a non-Outlaw spec. That's kinda sad, but as people have pointed out: it'll get nerfed if it's the clear choice.

My assumption was that Outlaw was going to be the cleave king, as usual, but ST would be Sub or Assassination. With a good mix of raid bosses being one or the other, the specs would be "balanced" that way. Doesn't appear to be playing out unfortunately.

It's interesting to see the huge variation in Outlaw though. In most cases, the top end of the other specs is just the mean for Outlaw, meaning you'd be stupid to play the other specs...

As blizzard has already said. One spec is going to be the best.

But they wont lower it below the other specs. as that would take away from people who have put points into said spec.

Therefore it is the most logical thing to choose..

You know. unless you're not that serious with raiding. Then play whatever you like.