Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[Luckx]

Hahahahaha what the fuck is this thread honestly? This thread is 2 years late to the party, we've dealt with the Horde/Orcs, we've moved to the Legion and Broken Isle people now

Well thread called Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys, because at Cataclysm questing zones Sylvanas doesnt seem be too very evil, but in Legion Sylvanas acting different compare to Cataclysm Sylvanas so some ppl think that developers want to make Sylvanas new Garrosh/Lich King.

And in that case that will bring new Siege of Dalaran/Org/Undercity and some Anti-Horde or Anti-Forsaken raid/event.

[Gradingus]

Actually none of them are really bad, they are all on the same level as the Alliance.
The problem is that people think they look savage and therefore must be evil.

This, yeah.

The whole "things that look savage/ugly/evil has to be evil"-thing is so overdone by now. But then again, people love clichés

[Dch48]

I feel like that was the appeal of most of the Horde races. Most of them are actually bad, if not downright evil. Even the Tauren are powerful savages.

The Tauren are powerful yes but there is nothing evil or bloodthirsty about them. They are the noblest of the Horde races. Leave them alone and they will never cause problems. Cross them and watch out. They are also very loyal which is why they are in the Horde. The Orcs helped them against the Centaurs, probably for reasons of their own, so the Tauren feel a sense of obligation. Orcs, Trolls, most but not all Undead are all evil, bloodthirsty, and sadistic by nature. Goblins are just crazy and the Blood Elves are, well, corrupted and arrogant? It's hard to put a finger on them.

[Deleted]

The Tauren are powerful yes but there is nothing evil or bloodthirsty about them. They are the noblest of the Horde races. Leave them alone and they will never cause problems. Cross them and watch out. They are also very loyal which is why they are in the Horde. The Orcs helped them against the Centaurs, probably for reasons of their own, so the Tauren feel a sense of obligation. Orcs, Trolls, most but not all Undead are all evil, bloodthirsty, and sadistic by nature. Goblins are just crazy and the Blood Elves are, well, corrupted and arrogant? It's hard to put a finger on them.

Wow what a collection of racist cliches.

[Dch48]

Wow what a collection of racist cliches.

Blame Blizzard, that's how they are all portrayed.

[munchimunchi]

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Edit: i think i did mistake by touching too much subjects in one post, just wanted to say that fighting forces like Scourge/Lich King/Scarlet Crusade is much more fun than fighting Orc npcs like Garrosh kor'krons/Iron Horde. Apologies



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Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

Playerwise in game i seen some Orcs and Taurens who hated Blood Elves and Night Elves, but i almost never seen Orc players who hated Taurens. It would make more sense making Orcs and Taurens even bigger allys then making stuff like Garrosh vs Cairne fight.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

"The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Night_elf

"Burning Legion became attracted to the world of Azeroth due to the reckless use of magic on that world. The Highborne's reckless use of magic sent ripples of energy spiraling out from the Well of Eternity and into the Great Dark Beyond."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Burning_Legion

I understand there is few players obssesed with faction pride and hating Orcs, and those players was happy to see that alot Orcs was portrayed as bad guys, but those players are minority of Alliance playerbase.

And alot Alliance players who doesnt care about Horde/Alliance faction pride was saying that lorewise fighting mostly Orcs in quests/raids is boring.

Also think of players who was maining Orc character for years, i dont think that killing other Orcs for them was too fun, even if those Orcs was not Azeroth Horde but Iron Horde or Garrosh Horde.

Also it was wrong that during MOP Orgrimmar was conquested by Alliance, but Stormwind wasnt conquest by Horde before. Its unfair that there is Hordebreaker and Conqueror of Ogrimmar title, but no Conqueror of Stormwind title or Alliancebreaker title.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

Also according metacritic WOTLK had much better rating than WOD and MOP

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...urning-crusade User Score 7.8
Generally favorable reviews based on 749 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...-the-lich-king User Score 7.4
Mixed or average reviews based on 874 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...raft-cataclysm User Score 5.5 Mixed or average reviews based on 916 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...rds-of-draenor 5.9 Mixed or average reviews based on 1078 Ratings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria 4.8 Generally unfavorable reviews based on 1226 Ratings

Some gameplay improvments like Toys Tab,Cross-faction Auction House, Cross-Battlegroup Arena was great and made Arena/Random bg queues faster but Lorewise and storyline wise WOTLK Raids and Quest chains was better.


“I admire Tolkien greatly. His books had enormous influence on me. And the trope that he sort of established—the idea of the Dark Lord and his Evil Minions—in the hands of lesser writers over the years and decades has not served the genre well. It has been beaten to death. The battle of good and evil is a great subject for any book and certainly for a fantasy book, but I think ultimately the battle between good and evil is weighed within the individual human heart and not necessarily between an army of people dressed in white and an army of people dressed in black. When I look at the world, I see that most real living breathing human beings are grey.”


― George R.R. Martin

whois that girl in ur profile sexy girl

[TheCount]

Orcs, trolls, tauren, undead and goblins fall into the "ugly" races category. Its easy to make them into the bad guys because they already have monstrous features compared to the "pretty" races (Humans, Night Elves, Dreanei).
I personally don't see the Horde races as bad but I do understand why some people see them as such.

[RadiationWoW]

Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense

???? You should remember that Garrosh wanted back that kind of horde that was all about just orcs.

And the sub numbers and story are irrelevant, I know more people who play this game for gameplay not for the story, but sure the lich king was a good plot point and helped to get some subs, but I doubt it was solely the reason for 12 million subs

[8bithamster]

yes its wrong when most villians portrayed by X race/nation even in game, there is alot examples in real life history why

What if some one want to RP a good lawful Orc, and other players will have stereotype that he is evil or only pretending to be good.

Please be joking with this.. So you're saying such stereotyping happens only ingame? Wow.. Worst.. troll.. ever

Nvm.. R. R. Martin fanboy, no talking sense into those. It has to be GoT level or plotholes/fails, or it's not good enough.

[Sliske]

First few words typed is pointing out that at one point Alliance was 'the bad guys'

If Garrosh and the Iron Horde is the Trolls/Tauren/Non Korkron Orcs/Goblins/Undead/Blood Elves, then Arthas and his undead humans are part of the Alliance

No?

Didn't think so.

[KrazyK923]

I mean, let's be honest here, the only reason the Horde still exists is because this is a MMORPG and they would never remove a race from either faction.

When, if the story would play out reasonably, factions in the Horde would have left a long time ago.

Sylvanas would be on her own, and the Blood Elves most likely be in the Alliance or just chilling alone with the Sunwell.

That isn't a statement on the Horde or Alliance being better, but more just how hamfisted the Horde as a faction beyond the Tauren/Orcs/Trolls is.

I mean, comparatively, the Worgen as a race are pretty stupid, but the GILNEANS make sense as to why they're with the Alliance. The Draenei are probably the biggest hamfist of the Alliance, but I don't think its even on the same tier as the Forsaken or Blood Elves in the Horde. The Night Elves are on the edge too, and I think if this was an RTS, they wouldn't have joined the Alliance.

Especially since somehow the Forsaken are a major/the biggest faction in the Horde now (Which is just...so ridiculously counter to their entire existence within the Horde), they would have dropped them and their baggage the second they could.

OT though: The Alliance never gets to be anything but the Lawful Good faction, which is fucking boring. Every time there's a single character who even strays slightly away from that narrative, they are completely condemned by the other Alliance leaders (Sky Admiral Rogers, Jaina Proudmoore, Genn Greymane, Vereesa Windrunner).

[CaptainV]

The issue lies in the fact OP, that the Horde and Orcs specifically started the first war by -invading- the world, the Horde has never exactly painted itself in a good light.

The issue there, is that blizzard isnt willing to destroy it, the Horde needs to -suffer- and I mean "really" suffer, visibly, by loosing a capital city, or something major like the Alliance has, by the Alliance hands, so that the Horde can look like the victim.

Maybe Thunderbluff being destroyed, maybe Hillsbrad being nuked by Alliance WOMD's killing thousands of undead would give us a chance to sympathise, but the Horde has taken -much- from the Alliance, while the Alliance has -not- taken enough from the Horde to make it look evil.

This is where the opportunity for the future has a merit.

Vengeful Greymane and Jaina "might" be necessary to make that happen, revenge is a good theme to make the Alliance finally have a moment of true villiany, and deal some serious brutal and unbiased damage to the Horde that could make it seem like its actually being dunked on for once.

Only then can the Horde appear the hero.

[therealbowser]

And Thrall saved the whole Azeroth.

You just invalidated your post in this reply.

As much as Blizzard focuses on the Horde, they are almost always the heroes. This whole idea of 'the Horde are the bad guys' (aside from Forsaken, but hell even then Blizzard tries to make them look noble) is ludicrous. I've never felt like the horde were bad guys outside of the 5.1 patch where the Horde was intentionally doing really bad stuff for mystery reasons.

The Alliance is honorable and noble, the Horde is valorous and savage, there is no 'good guy faction' and 'bad guy faction'. The Horde, however, is by far the more morally ambiguous, so take that as you will.

[Miss Click]

Started playing a UD and the first quests I did after I exited the starting area were all about killed humans and kill more humans and humans this humans that. As an alliance human your starting quests are : Some kobolds took my candle or we need to eat kill us some chickens or help us get rid of the wolves and the spiders and maybe even some defias.

Horde are evul from the first moment they join the game and it is our duty to remind them that we will never be friends. I urge everyone who reads this to go invasions and gank a horde. They will not know why but you will.

Just thought I'd make an account to chime in here. You forget that the person who created the Forsaken was Arthas, a Human (and a member of the Alliance). The Undead/Forsaken only exist because of the Alliance. The Forsaken are mostly made up of deceased citizens of Lordaeron who wanted to join the Alliance but weren't recognised or accepted by them, so rallied behind Sylvanas (a former High-Elf, also loyal to the Alliance) who could only find an ally in the Horde.

Also, with the exception of the odd dwarf, the Forsaken from the intro quests are largely tasked with ending the Scarlet Crusade who, if I'm not mistaken, have been infiltrated and are being led by a Dreadlord. You, as Alliance, kill them yourselves in Scarlet Monastery.

The Alliance are largely responsible for the actions of the Horde. Hell, Thrall was even made a slave by the Alliance and still sought peaceful negotiations which were promptly refuted. The Alliance made their bed, and so they should lay in it.

OP: I think it's perfectly acceptable for Tauren/Orcs to bicker and fight. If leadership wasn't challenged between factions, the Horde wouldn't be a democracy — it would be a dictatorship. Do you agree with every decision your friends/family make? Do you challenge them? Yes? But they're the first people to birth/accept you so surely you should all be best buds.

EDIT: Yes, Ner'zhul etc. The fact is, the Burning Legion is the big baddy, without which none of anything would have happened.

[Deleted]

Well i preff to be the Bad guy
After all thats why i joined to the horde (sadly for me there wasnt a option to join in to Garrosh horde )

[Tackhisis]

Thrall was even made a slave by the Alliance...

Alliance saved his damned life, and how did he repay? By killing them. He is a typical Horde scum.

[Tackhisis]

How, where, why?

Alliance saved, nourished and raised him as a baby; and he killed people whom he owes his worthless life in Durnholde.

[Deleted]

The Horde were always the bad guys, thats why I picked them. Alliance are squeaky clean good looking do-gooders, they make me sick.

[Florena]

Alliance saved, nourished and raised him as a baby; and he killed people whom he owes his worthless life in Durnholde.

Blackmoore didn't save Thrall out of the kindness of his heart. He saved Thralls life but then raised him as a slave and abused him, intending to use Thrall as a pawn to overthrow Terenas. The other people Thrall owes his life to, Taretha and her mother, he did not kill.

[Deleted]

eh i wouldn't mind the Horde becoming the bad guys.. sometimes that's more fun than being a typical hero.

That would be true, if Blizz was bit better at writing evil characters, they were pretty good at one point, but whenever it is Horde related "evulness" it's just mind boggling stupid in most cases. The acts are often illogical and self destructive. Instead of cunning and well thought out.

Like Horde under Garrosh during LK and beyond. "Oh there's Alliance, let's charge their rear lose both armies to Scourge because... reasons". Those kind of stupid things.

Which they now have sort of given to Genn and Gilneas tbf. "Ignore the main fight, let's start and hunt Sylvanas and try to f*ck up everything".