Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[Masark]

2. Don't have a kid until your married

3. Hold a job.

That's it.

He'll that's not even from me, that's from the Brookings institution, a liberal think tank.

1. So you propose to get rid of Republicans that obstruct the availability of effective sex education, affordable contraceptives, and abortion?

2. So you propose to get rid of Republicans that push discredited economy policy so that people can hold jobs rather than getting them yanked out from under them every time your laissez faire ideology results in the market fucking itself up, again?

3. Brookings is centrist at best.

[Raptor With a Saber]

Unless the flat tax is 1% of the purchase its a bad idea. It would be a horrible thing especially when you buy a pack of gum and end up paying $10 in tax on 35c

[Theinquisition]

1. So you propose to get rid of Republicans that obstruct the availability of effective sex education, affordable contraceptives, and abortion?

2. So you propose to get rid of Republicans that push discredited economy policy so that people can hold jobs rather than getting them yanked out from under them every time your laissez faire ideology results in the market fucking itself up, again?

3. Brookings is centrist at best.

I don't care if a woman has an abortion. I'd never wish it for someone, or want someone in my family to have one, but im ultimately pro choice

2. Democrat economic policy is any better? We have 4-5% unemployment, thats pretty damned good. No reason to bitch.

3. Thats arguable.

[Tennis]

Look, it takes three things to be successful in the U.S.

1. Graduate high school

2. Don't have a kid until your married

3. Hold a job.

That's it.

He'll that's not even from me, that's from the Brookings institution, a liberal think tank.

Hold a job? Um no. You need a decent job not just any job if you're out to have a successful happy life. Cmon man.

[BannedForViews]

This is incorrect. it WAS infact created as a minimum living wage, it was created to end worker exploration along with the 40 hr work week and a whole slue of other regulations, the first minimum wage was set at an amount that a man working 40hr/wk would be able to afford to cover the basic needs, shelter, food, utilities, cloths.

I'm sorry, this is completely false. The minimum wage was "invented" during a period of rapid inflation. It quickly became worthless. I can point you to some extremely distinguished economists if you would like to set you right.

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How so?

If the very poor are excluded from this flat tax, as they already are from progressive taxes, then what does it accomplish other than lowering taxes on the wealthy?

Which, as we have already seen from most Republican tax breaks, accomplishes literally fucking nothing? Apart from increasing deficit spending that is, since Republicans hardly cut any spending when they cut revenue...

So much wrong here.

https://www.irs.com/articles/2015-fe...ard-deductions

There are tax rate charts. Currently you have to deduct things after the fact to see how much of your income is tax free, and generally it is pretty low. Definitely not 5 figures. Most people who propose flat taxes have in the normal range of 20 to 30k of everyones income is just completely tax free. If you make up to or under that, you pay zero tax. if you make over, you only pay on what is over, and we are talking small marginal rates, all under 20%. This is a vast improvement for EVERYONE, not just the rich. Poor people could have thousands of extra dollars THAT WERE THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH, still in their pockets. If you can't see how everyone is better off having their own money to spend, instead of giving it to the government to waste, well that is a different argument, and I'm not sure I have the endurance to take you through it.

As far as what republicans do or do not cut, that is not the point. The issue is should you have a flat tax or not, is it a good idea or can it be a good idea. The answer is yes, it is the most moral as well as the most economically beneficial tax structure. The End.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Well, if they had skills and education worth more than 7.25 an hour they could negotiate a higher wage. Just because someone thinks they deserve more doesn't mean they do.

We have a ton of skilled people working as baristas because the good paying jobs are disappearing.

The left generally blames those who are responsible, those who have been sacrificing jobs in the US in the name of the bottom line and investors and dividends. The right just blames mexicans and chinese for stealing their jerbs! Not the ones giving the jobs to the mexicans and chinese.

[BannedForViews]

don't know what fantasy you are living in. with a high school degree you are lucky to even get a job and its a cold day in hell if that job is more than your states minimum wage ( some states are higher than 7.25 )

I made more than that as a 14 year old in the 90s bagging groceries and pushing shopping carts. This argument is a complete joke.

[krunksmash]

I made more than that as a 14 year old in the 90s bagging groceries and pushing shopping carts. This argument is a complete joke.

OH BOY! 20 years ago when the economy was not tanked? WOW! ...... go try and get much more than minimum wage with no more than a high school diploma today. also I have a hard time believing you were 14 because its illegal to employ someone under 16 with the exception of small family owned businesses. and has been for decades.

[Orbitus]

So far Ive only seen you drop these "brilliant" one liners, trying to bash me.. in fact, is Endus sleeping or are the rumors true? Where are those infractions?

Probably because I haven't committed an infractable offense? It isn't like I am calling you fucking stupid, I am saying you know absolutely nothing about what you are trying to talk about, and you don't. If you take offense to that, that is on you. But you clearly can't grasp basic economics or basic government. You learn all of that in high school. Which is why I suggested you go back and try to finish it, if you can.

[BannedForViews]

Not even close. Yes, there are jobs out there that a high school grad can get that pay more than minimum wage but the vast majority of jobs available to them are in the food service industry and I guarantee you most of those don't start above minimum wage.

Actually most of them do. it's very easy to get a job making over 7.25 an hr. Wamart pays 12 to 13 an hour, so does costco, most grocery stores pay bag boys well over minimum wage. I made 40% more than min wage when I was 14 or 15 bagging groceries. Basically any manual labor/construction/manufacturing job will pay well over min wage. Are they all making 100 an hr? no, but much more than 7.25. Fucking summer life guard jobs pay more than that.

[Orbitus]

People aren't equal though, and while equal rights and opportunities are a good thing, equality of outcome is not and should never be allowed to happen.





Life is not a multiple choice test. There is no this or that. If I dont like these taxes, I can either.

1) Try to find loopholes to get out of paying them
2) Fire workers, move production abroad, invest in automation to cut costs
3) Use the welfare system in my favor. For example sign my property to my husband or someone I trust and leech the bejesus out of it.
4) Vote for the party that promises to lower taxes.

As well as many more option, Im sure.

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Well thats basically your run of the mill "ur stoopid" comment that doesnt add anything constructive. I think it qualifies as flaming. Ive seen infractions given out for less.

When your post is full of nonsense like you want to be a lone wolf living off the grid and want to get all of the benefits of the society without giving anything to the society, then yeah, you need to go back to high school and understand what taxes are used for. They aren't theft. That is part of civilization and society. Don't want to be a part of society? Go buy an island and leave the rest of the world in your dust with no running water, electricity, internet, or roads.

[Shadowferal]

Against.

And won't even bother with an argument until Campaign Finance Reform becomes a thing and takes all the money out of the election process.

[BannedForViews]

OH BOY! 20 years ago when the economy was not tanked? WOW! ...... go try and get much more than minimum wage with no more than a high school diploma today. also I have a hard time believing you were 14 because its illegal to employ someone under 16 with the exception of small family owned businesses. and has been for decades.

"Non-agricultural jobs require you to be at least 14 years of age. Fourteen- and 15-year-olds may not work more than three hours a day and 18 hours a week during the school year. During the summer and on school holidays, you can work eight hours a day and 40 hours a week, but there are time limits."

How's that egg on your face taste?

[I Push Buttons]

So much wrong here.

https://www.irs.com/articles/2015-fe...ard-deductions

There are tax rate charts. Currently you have to deduct things after the fact to see how much of your income is tax free, and generally it is pretty low. Definitely not 5 figures. Most people who propose flat taxes have in the normal range of 20 to 30k of everyones income is just completely tax free. If you make up to or under that, you pay zero tax. if you make over, you only pay on what is over, and we are talking small marginal rates, all under 20%. This is a vast improvement for EVERYONE, not just the rich. Poor people could have thousands of extra dollars THAT WERE THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH, still in their pockets. If you can't see how everyone is better off having their own money to spend, instead of giving it to the government to waste, well that is a different argument, and I'm not sure I have the endurance to take you through it.

As far as what republicans do or do not cut, that is not the point. The issue is should you have a flat tax or not, is it a good idea or can it be a good idea. The answer is yes, it is the most moral as well as the most economically beneficial tax structure. The End.

Only the rich don't spend that money and you are grossly exaggerating the tax burden on the poor in the current system.

[araine]

What would be your arguments for or against flat tax?

totally against it, since it is nothing but a redistribution of wealth where the poor will get greatly increased taxes and the rich will get greatly reduced taxes. just a total right wing disaster in other words

[BannedForViews]

BULLSHIT

Sorry but you can't just rewrite history.

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
-President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who called the Fair Labor Standards Act, the most important piece of New Deal legislation since the Social Security Act of 1935.

The whole point of the minimum wage was to provide a living wage for adults not for teenagers.

LOL. Okay guy, whatever you say. And Johnson wanted to protect the rights of blacks and raise them out of poverty, HAHAHA.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com...flation-rates/

https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

“The history of black workers in the United States illustrates the point. As already noted, from the late nineteenth-century on through the middle of the twentieth century, the labor force participation rate of American blacks was slightly higher than that of American whites. In other words, blacks were just as employable at the wages they received as whites were at their very different wages. The minimum wage law changed that. Before federal minimum wage laws were instituted in the 1930s, the black unemployment rate was slightly lower than the white unemployment rate in 1930. But then followed the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931, the National Industrial Recovery Act of 1933 and the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938—all of which imposed government-mandated minimum wages, either on a particular sector or more broadly. The National Labor Relations Act of 1935, which promoted unionization, also tended to price black workers out of jobs, in addition to union rules that kept blacks from jobs by barring them from union membership. The National Industrial Recovery Act raised wage rates in the Southern textile industry by 70 percent in just five months and its impact nationwide was estimated to have cost blacks half a million jobs. While this Act was later declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 was upheld by the High Court and became the major force establishing a national minimum wage. As already noted, the inflation of the 1940s largely nullified the effect of the Fair Labor Standards Act, until it was amended in 1950 to raise minimum wages to a level that would have some actual effect on current wages. By 1954, black unemployment rates were double those of whites and have continued to be at that level or higher. Those particularly hard hit by the resulting unemployment have been black teenage males. Even though 1949—the year before a series of minimum wage escalations began—was a recession year, black teenage male unemployment that year was lower than it was to be at any time during the later boom years of the 1960s. The wide gap between the unemployment rates of black and white teenagers dates from the escalation of the minimum wage and the spread of its coverage in the 1950s. The usual explanations of high unemployment among black teenagers—inexperience, less education, lack of skills, racism—cannot explain their rising unemployment, since all these things were worse during the earlier period when black teenage unemployment was much lower. Taking the more normal year of 1948 as a basis for comparison, black male teenage unemployment then was less than half of what it would be at any time during the decade of the 1960s and less than one-third of what it would be in the 1970s. Unemployment among 16 and 17-year-old black males was no higher than among white males of the same age in 1948. It was only after a series of minimum wage escalations began that black male teenage unemployment not only skyrocketed but became more than double the unemployment rates among white male teenagers. In the early twenty-first century, the unemployment rate for black teenagers exceeded 30 percent. After the American economy turned down in the wake of the housing and financial crises, unemployment among black teenagers reached 40 percent.”
― Thomas Sowell, Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy

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Only the rich don't spend that money and you are grossly exaggerating the tax burden on the poor in the current system.

Only the rich don't spend what money? And what am I over estimating?

http://www.taxformcalculator.com/tax/30000.html

Estimator for 30k income. take home just under 25k. It's roughly 18% of income paid as taxes. Now lets assume a flat tax of 17.5%...OH SHIT I ALREADY PAY LESS!

Now only tax 10k of it.

Yea, flat tax proposals are HORRIBLE.

Edit: This what Cruz's plan

Under the Simple Flat Tax, the current seven rates of personal income tax will collapse into a single low rate of 10 percent. For a family of four, the first $36,000 will be tax-free. The Child Tax Credit will remain in place, and the Simple Flat Tax Plan expands and modernizes the Earned Income Tax Credit with greater anti-fraud and pro-marriage reforms.

Sounds like poor people would be much worse off, not to mention the 60 bucks a year they save not buying turbotax.

[Shadowferal]

Get rid of all deductibles for anyone making over $200k/yr and we'll talk.

[BannedForViews]

Get rid of all deductibles for anyone making over $200k/yr and we'll talk.

Flat tax proposals don't have "deductibles".

[Holofernes]

do you remember the 1990s riots in london and all over the uk?

[Endus]

Flat tax proposals don't have "deductibles".

That's not automatically true, and if your issue is with the deductibles, then you'd be better served focusing on that than complaining about the tax brackets, which is what a flat tax proposal is focused on.

The entire argument about deductibles is a distraction.