sheet music or learn by hearing a song?

[Deleted]

Now that I've listen to it, it kind of reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j4riYsXQR8. You should check out of some his other stuff.

i promise you that i will listen to an album or two of him! sounds seriously good! (he must be a fan of Gary moore right? i hear alot of GM in there.)

I've seen many "musicians" like those earning money on street, but they aren't musicians. They are faking it. Gullible people that don't know better give them money. Its like giving money to gypsy beggars. They don't count.

1. Robert Johnson
2. Elvis Presley
3. The Beatles (Lennon, Harrison, McCartney and Starr, all of them cant/couldent read notes)
4. Jimi Hendrix (there is a suprize for ya' )
5. Tony Williams
6. Eric Clapton (cocaaaiiiiiin!)
7. Stevie Ray Vaughan
8. Eddie Van Halen (Dont underestimate EVH!)
9. Tommy Emmanuel (Pro since age 6, and has played on stage 50 odd years if i recall right.)
10. Slash

All those i have listed here, would love to tell ya something, they cant read a note but they sure can play some!

i find it funny, im a big fan of most of them lol

Anyway, you get the idea!

[May90]

Can only be bothered with tabs. I can pick a song faster by ear than trying to filter through sheet music. Been playing/singing by ear for 20+ years. /shrug

It is like this with many professional musicians too. There is a story about Dizzy Gillespie, when he's played a complicated solo, then a few days later some guy walked up to him, showed him a few sheets and said, "This is the solo that you played, transcribed". He looked at it, shrugged and said, "I don't understand any of it".

[callipygoustp]

both i'd say, both ears and sheet

i have been making music for about 13 years, both on Guitar, drums, piano sax and the trumpet.. And yet, i still cant read sheet music

so i simply use my ears for it, and its working out very well

but it has its downsides tho, whenever i listen to the radio, i know how to play 70%+ of the songs -.- just by listening to it.. THAT pisses me of, cuz' I've pretty much ruined my "radio experience" so to speak..




Here is Lefty and I playing a song that i made

he has been playing 30++ years, i have played for 13, guess whos me!

(Shameless plug here!)

Anyway, learn both if you can, and just be sure you have good ears, then you are golden!

Nice song. Listened to it a few times now.

[Deleted]

Nice song. Listened to it a few times now.

Thanks man!

Lately, i have been spewing out shit but working on to turn that around so i can please more people

[May90]

1. Robert Johnson
2. Elvis Presley
3. The Beatles (Lennon, Harrison, McCartney and Starr, all of them cant/couldent read notes)
4. Jimi Hendrix (there is a suprize for ya' )
5. Tony Williams
6. Eric Clapton (cocaaaiiiiiin!)
7. Stevie Ray Vaughan
8. Eddie Van Halen (Dont underestimate EVH!)
9. Tommy Emmanuel (Pro since age 6, and has played on stage 50 odd years if i recall right.)
10. Slash

All those i have listed here, would love to tell ya something, they cant read a note but they sure can play some!

i find it funny, im a big fan of most of them lol

Anyway, you get the idea!

I must say that reading music was only really useful to me when learning my first instrument at school, classic piano. Before I've developed good playing technique and listening abilities, reading notes was the only way to learn new songs and progress, really.

Later, when learning guitar and drums, I only relied on memorizing music and improvizing. In fact, I still don't know how to read drum notes, and I have a very poor grasp of guitar chord notation.

So, I'd say, while reading music is certainly useful while learning, it has little use in some styles in practice. It, probably, is still useful in classical music, since that's how musicians communicate there - but, say, in Jazz trying to write down and, let alone, read complicated songs would be an unnecessary torture. Just look at this mess:

[Deleted]

I must say that reading music was only really useful to me when learning my first instrument at school, classic piano. Before I've developed good playing technique and listening abilities, reading notes was the only way to learn new songs and progress, really.

Later, when learning guitar and drums, I only relied on memorizing music and improvizing. In fact, I still don't know how to read drum notes, and I have a very poor grasp of guitar chord notation.

So, I'd say, while reading music is certainly useful while learning, it has little use in some styles in practice. It, probably, is still useful in classical music, since that's how musicians communicate there - but, say, in Jazz trying to write down and, let alone, read complicated songs would be an unnecessary torture. Just look at this mess:

agree when learning an instrument for the first time, its best to have some notes/chords, but for me (playing serval instruments now on my 13th year), i rely only on my ears. but knowledge is power, unless you really know your way around the instrument, or play in a orchestra (hmm, think a big orchestra where everybody is improvising :S )





A tip/advice that i can give for any person who wants to use their ears, make it in to a "sport" to remember what an "A" chord/note sounds like, the same goes for the rest of the string/notes

i clearly remember i told my girlfreind once, while standing at the ATM grabbing some cash.

"god.. those button notes goes in a G# -.-.."

her: "how do you know??"

"think AC/DC highway to hell intro chord, just a semi tone down from that, AKA G#"

She just glared at me, like i was some kind of freak..


That is how i train my ears, just remembering notes and chords etc

Also, every time you walk by your instrument, Hum whatever open string, and see if you can hit it first time, also a good way to train it

[Tryuk]

I'm not good enough with ear training to just play solely by hearing without quite a few attempts -- although with Alto Sax I can usually get it right in a couple of tries, though often in a different key. I usually play classical and jazz though, so I use both sheet and ear if I need to learn music. Usually just by ear if I'm learning something for fun. Thing is, dots on the page can only convey so much, certain sounds and styles don't really translate that well.

For example, the graces notes at the beginning of An American in Paris, don't really sound like normal grace notes.

Can't read sheet music for shit when playing guitar though. For some reason the two don't mix very well in my head.

(Also if you can't play something, you can always just to try and make it sound like what you listened to eh? Fake it until you make it.)

[Gemini Soul]

I took piano when i was younger and i learned best from hearing a song then trying to play it. I've always been and still am a tactile learner.

[soulkeeperx]

I can only learn parts with a simple melody, and with no chords, if there's chords I just can't guess what they are, I need sheet music for anything else

[Deleted]

1. Robert Johnson
2. Elvis Presley
3. The Beatles (Lennon, Harrison, McCartney and Starr, all of them cant/couldent read notes)
4. Jimi Hendrix (there is a suprize for ya' )
5. Tony Williams
6. Eric Clapton (cocaaaiiiiiin!)
7. Stevie Ray Vaughan
8. Eddie Van Halen (Dont underestimate EVH!)
9. Tommy Emmanuel (Pro since age 6, and has played on stage 50 odd years if i recall right.)
10. Slash

All those i have listed here, would love to tell ya something, they cant read a note but they sure can play some!

i find it funny, im a big fan of most of them lol

Anyway, you get the idea!

Didn't know that. Thanks!

[Merkava]

i promise you that i will listen to an album or two of him! sounds seriously good! (he must be a fan of Gary moore right? i hear alot of GM in there.)




1. Robert Johnson
2. Elvis Presley
3. The Beatles (Lennon, Harrison, McCartney and Starr, all of them cant/couldent read notes)
4. Jimi Hendrix (there is a suprize for ya' )
5. Tony Williams
6. Eric Clapton (cocaaaiiiiiin!)
7. Stevie Ray Vaughan
8. Eddie Van Halen (Dont underestimate EVH!)
9. Tommy Emmanuel (Pro since age 6, and has played on stage 50 odd years if i recall right.)
10. Slash

All those i have listed here, would love to tell ya something, they cant read a note but they sure can play some!

i find it funny, im a big fan of most of them lol

Anyway, you get the idea!

Fact #1 - They all would have been even better if they could read.
Fact #2 - For all of those genius musical talents that you listed, there's thousands of players just like them who are not as lucky, and they're losing jobs to musicians who can read.
Fact #3 - This is a common argument made by people, mainly guitar players, who are too lazy to learn to read.

[Noradin]

Why would you use only one if you can use both at the same time?

[Deleted]

Fact #1 - They all would have been even better if they could read.
Fact #2 - For all of those genius musical talents that you listed, there's thousands of players just like them who are not as lucky, and they're losing jobs to musicians who can read.
Fact #3 - This is a common argument made by people, mainly guitar players, who are too lazy to learn to read.

#1 - i am not sure about that music is all about the feeling in a song.
#2 - there has always been too many people able to play an instrument or two, infact, millions! the way to get a job, is to be able to play, AND to have to contacts. there is even people out there who is pro's who barely can play their own instruments..
#3 - i am afraid you are wrong here. its a "common argument" made by people who maybe has a hard time to read? like me? i cant read a note y'know, and i have gone to a music school even. notes for me = ants on a paper.. tried many times to learn to read/write those stinky little black dots on that stupid piece of paper, its not happening. other wise i would have made a gigantic score my self. (i also make cinematic music my self..)
that's why i rely so much on my ears. haven't had any issues so far.

again, music is about feelings, not about being super skilled, or being super skilled in reading notes.
Being able to play whatever that is needed is the key here.

and just to tell you the obvious here: "If it sounds good, its good, no matter if it is correct or not."


god.. why am i arguing on mmo-c? its a never ending story anyway..

Didn't know that. Thanks!

no worries to start with, i was pretty sure that they were all gods anyway, and that turned out to be not true, they are just very skilled people haha

[Merkava]

#1 - i am not sure about that music is all about the feeling in a song.
#2 - there has always been too many people able to play an instrument or two, infact, millions! the way to get a job, is to be able to play, AND to have to contacts. there is even people out there who is pro's who barely can play their own instruments..
#3 - i am afraid you are wrong here. its a "common argument" made by people who maybe has a hard time to read? like me? i cant read a note y'know, and i have gone to a music school even. notes for me = ants on a paper.. tried many times to learn to read/write those stinky little black dots on that stupid piece of paper, its not happening. other wise i would have made a gigantic score my self. (i also make cinematic music my self..)
that's why i rely so much on my ears. haven't had any issues so far.

again, music is about feelings, not about being super skilled, or being super skilled in reading notes.
Being able to play whatever that is needed is the key here.

and just to tell you the obvious here: "If it sounds good, its good, no matter if it is correct or not."


god.. why am i arguing on mmo-c? its a never ending story anyway..






no worries to start with, i was pretty sure that they were all gods anyway, and that turned out to be not true, they are just very skilled people haha

1. I'm sure about it. Any talented musician that doesn't know how to read would be a better musician if they did know how to read. You can relate to other musicians easier, for example. Let's say you want to add a horn part to a song you're writing. Well if you don't know how to arrange that, then you have no chance to communicate that to other musicians. Intervals are much easier to understand and play if you can read. Same with understanding key signatures. There is absolutely no formal music training program that doesn't include as mandatory the ability to read music. Also, pointing out famously successful rock musicians as examples of how you can be successful without reading is the same as telling a kid about all the NBA stars who didn't finish college. For every rock star who can't read, there's thousands of working musicians, who wouldn't be working musicians if they couldn't read.

2. I've played sessions before. Contacts are important. Of course. It's absolutely who you know. But you know how you make contacts? By being prepared. Studio time is expensive. The players who get called back are the players who can deliver exactly what the producer or artist are looking for in as few takes as possible. You might get some calls where all you have to do is play shell voicings with a keyboard player, or just rake out some chords or play a few lead parts, but as soon as someone sticks a chart or a score in front of you and you can't read it, well, say goodbye to any contacts you may have made. At that point, if you can't play what they're paying you to play, then you're wasting their time.

3. If you can't read a note and you went to music school, then you need to ask for your money back.

In the end, you're exactly right. Music can be about whatever you want it to be. Unless you're trying to make a living at it. Then it damn well better be about what the person who's paying you wants it to be.

[May90]

agree when learning an instrument for the first time, its best to have some notes/chords, but for me (playing serval instruments now on my 13th year), i rely only on my ears. but knowledge is power, unless you really know your way around the instrument, or play in a orchestra (hmm, think a big orchestra where everybody is improvising :S )





A tip/advice that i can give for any person who wants to use their ears, make it in to a "sport" to remember what an "A" chord/note sounds like, the same goes for the rest of the string/notes

i clearly remember i told my girlfreind once, while standing at the ATM grabbing some cash.

"god.. those button notes goes in a G# -.-.."

her: "how do you know??"

"think AC/DC highway to hell intro chord, just a semi tone down from that, AKA G#"

She just glared at me, like i was some kind of freak..


That is how i train my ears, just remembering notes and chords etc

Also, every time you walk by your instrument, Hum whatever open string, and see if you can hit it first time, also a good way to train it

Well, AFAIK, absolute pitch is not something you can train. However, I suppose, you can get somewhere in between absolute pitch and "relative" pitch. For example, I sometimes have a song played in my head, and at some point I realize, "Hmm, something is wrong. This part should be played a semitone higher!"

"Relative" pitch though can be trained almost infinitely. Personally, I pretty easily catch up to 4-note chords on keyboards or guitars, although harder chords, especially those on piano with voicings involving notes separated from each other by more than 3 octaves, sometimes take a conscious effort and a bit of time to figure out. Listening to music a lot, preferably to various styles and instruments, "intelligently", trying to imagine how exactly these instruments are being used at the moment, helps train this ability very rapidly.

1. I'm sure about it. Any talented musician that doesn't know how to read would be a better musician if they did know how to read. You can relate to other musicians easier, for example. Let's say you want to add a horn part to a song you're writing. Well if you don't know how to arrange that, then you have no chance to communicate that to other musicians. Intervals are much easier to understand and play if you can read. Same with understanding key signatures. There is absolutely no formal music training program that doesn't include as mandatory the ability to read music. Also, pointing out famously successful rock musicians as examples of how you can be successful without reading is the same as telling a kid about all the NBA stars who didn't finish college. For every rock star who can't read, there's thousands of working musicians, who wouldn't be working musicians if they couldn't read.

I strongly disagree here. What you are talking about is knowing music theory, and yes, that one is very crucial for, pretty much, all types of musicians out there. However, you don't need to know how to read sheet music to know theory.

[Granyala]

As a layman flute novice (4months in now) I need both.
I need the sheets and I need to hear the piece a couple of times.

Learning a piece I have never heard via sheets alone feels an order of magnitude more difficult.

Being a novice I obviously can't learn solely by ear yet. I tried it once but I ended up googling the sheets and transposing it into a different signature in order to make any headway.

[Merkava]

I strongly disagree here. What you are talking about is knowing music theory, and yes, that one is very crucial for, pretty much, all types of musicians out there. However, you don't need to know how to read sheet music to know theory.

I said a lot in that quote. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Are you disagreeing with me when I said that "Any talented musician that doesn't know how to read would be a better musician if they did know how to read?" That was my main point.

Of course you don't need to be able to read music to understand music theory. It just makes it a lot easier. Are you looking for examples of that? I've given several already.

[May90]

I said a lot in that quote. What exactly are you disagreeing with?

Are you disagreeing with me when I said that "Any talented musician that doesn't know how to read would be a better musician if they did know how to read?" That was my main point.

Of course you don't need to be able to read music to understand music theory. It just makes it a lot easier. Are you looking for examples of that? I've given several already.

Yes, I disagree with that. I don't think the ability to read sheet music is any more necessary than, say, knowing Catalan. There are many ways to communicate with other musicians, and sheet music is just one of many. Saying that a given musician would be a better musician if they could read music really depends on what that musician in particular does. To me, for example, the ability to read sheet music is absolutely useless (and yes, I can read it), there is nothing I need it for. If I want to play a song, I can just google its live performance, listen to it a few times - and I'm ready to play it myself. Music I'm interested in (jazz, blues, funk) is much about improvising, and you don't need to "learn" any notes for a particular song, you just need to understand its general structure, and then you can play your own version of it easily.

In classical music it is different, as songs there often have a strict composition, and omitting or replacing certain chords/notes is not something you do. So yes, in classical music, you can't get away without using the ability to read music extensively. But it is not so in all styles.

[Merkava]

Yes, I disagree with that. I don't think the ability to read sheet music is any more necessary than, say, knowing Catalan. There are many ways to communicate with other musicians, and sheet music is just one of many. Saying that a given musician would be a better musician if they could read music really depends on what that musician in particular does. To me, for example, the ability to read sheet music is absolutely useless (and yes, I can read it), there is nothing I need it for. If I want to play a song, I can just google its live performance, listen to it a few times - and I'm ready to play it myself. Music I'm interested in (jazz, blues, funk) is much about improvising, and you don't need to "learn" any notes for a particular song, you just need to understand its general structure, and then you can play your own version of it easily.

In classical music it is different, as songs there often have a strict composition, and omitting or replacing certain chords/notes is not something you do. So yes, in classical music, you can't get away without using the ability to read music extensively. But it is not so in all styles.

First of all, citing yourself as an example is pointless. No offence, but if you find zero benefit to reading music, then that's fine. I play frequently with people where I'm expected to play something, that I haven't seen before.

There are other ways to communicate with other musicians. That's true. Smoke signals, signal lamps, morse code, etc. They would all probably work. But, reading music is the universally accepted way of doing it.

I don't really understand how you can't accept the fact that reading music makes you a more well rounded musician. Picture a guitar player, a shredder who wanted to learn Paganini's 5th caprice and there was no tablature available. Sorry, but you're not going to learn to play that note for note by ear.

When most guitar players talk about "learning music theory," they stop at things like arpeggios and scales. Maybe they get into modes even. But they learn patterns. They don't think musically. You don't have to think about what notes are in F Mixolydian when you play, it. You just go to the 1st fret and plug in your shape. Horn players don't have that luxury. Neither do keyboard players. But if you want to learn something like the difference between simple and compound intervals, well that's much, much easier to understand and visualize if you can read music.

And with all due respect, you may say that you like to play jazz, but if you can't play something out of a Real Book or read a lead sheet then you're not very valuable to anyone.

- - - Updated - - -

As a layman flute novice (4months in now) I need both.
I need the sheets and I need to hear the piece a couple of times.

Learning a piece I have never heard via sheets alone feels an order of magnitude more difficult.

Being a novice I obviously can't learn solely by ear yet. I tried it once but I ended up googling the sheets and transposing it into a different signature in order to make any headway.

But I'm guessing you've had the satisfaction of playing a piece for the first time without having heard it before, and being pleased with the result, right?

[Granyala]

But I'm guessing you've had the satisfaction of playing a piece for the first time without having heard it before, and being pleased with the result, right?

That's the norm actually. Most of the etudes(me think it's called, little excerpts and study pieces) in my book aren't easily found on the Internet.
Really weird to learn a piece in what feels like "layers":

First I play the tones as such all as quarter notes, because getting the tones out of my flute is still the hardest part for me.
Once I have the sequence down I start incorporating more and more of the actual note values and thus create the rhythm.
Stuff like legatos, diminuendos/crescendos and articulation comes last, since I am still limited in my ability to do them esp in higher registers.
Ornamentation notes are well beyond my skill level, so I leave those out completely.

Personally, I can't imagine doing any kind of music w/o being able to read notes. But then again I mostly operate in the classical domain. As May90 already explained: you can't get away w/o reading notes there.