Not sure which spec to focus on first for artifact weapon!

[Deleted]

Thanks for the info. Guess I'm going assassination then.

Information you quoted is actually out of date as he said, lots has changed. I'd say Outlaw is significantly better than Assa now.

[Whitemist]

If I could get some input on this "brainstorm" of my own, it would be much appreciated.

I feel atm that the safest bet is going for sub first. Sims are good and well, but feel that outlaw is performing well in a "sim vacum" but I don't have high hopes with it's RNG performance in a raid environment. I was sure I would go assassination, but feels like Blizzard is re-thinking how it will work with bleeds vs. poison,

Can I get a thought on this by some theorycrafters, and not "random opinions"?

[Deleted]

If I could get some input on this "brainstorm" of my own, it would be much appreciated.

I feel atm that the safest bet is going for sub first. Sims are good and well, but feel that outlaw is performing well in a "sim vacum" but I don't have high hopes with it's RNG performance in a raid environment. I was sure I would go assassination, but feels like Blizzard is re-thinking how it will work with bleeds vs. poison,

Can I get a thought on this by some theorycrafters, and not "random opinions"?

From my -poor- experience I'd say for now the safest bet is going Outlaw, since even with the RNG influence rolling 2+ bonus (which is not hard as some may suggest) will grant a good dps boost that will let you perform better than sub and assa in almost every situation.

[Whitemist]

From my -poor- experience I'd say for now the safest bet is going Outlaw, since even with the RNG influence rolling 2+ bonus (which is not hard as some may suggest) will grant a good dps boost that will let you perform better than sub and assa in almost every situation.

Yes, but RtB provides insane amount of RNG, and I fear that a sim can greatly vary with this. It's a open question, I'm not set in my ways, and can comfortably play all 3.

[Deleted]

Yes, but RtB provides insane amount of RNG, and I fear that a sim can greatly vary with this. It's a open question, I'm not set in my ways, and can comfortably play all 3.

No doubt about that. Personally I like the RNG factor, but I agree a couple of bad bad rolls will result in a significant dps drop. Hopefully blizz will reduce the gap between specs so those who do not like RtB will not be forced to play it.

[precious]

If I could get some input on this "brainstorm" of my own, it would be much appreciated.

I feel atm that the safest bet is going for sub first. Sims are good and well, but feel that outlaw is performing well in a "sim vacum" but I don't have high hopes with it's RNG performance in a raid environment. I was sure I would go assassination, but feels like Blizzard is re-thinking how it will work with bleeds vs. poison,

Can I get a thought on this by some theorycrafters, and not "random opinions"?

-Lving by far fastest is outlaw
-Dungeons if u want to contribute higher aoe go outlaw. Doesnt really matter i found assa and outlaw be close but that mfd spam in dungeons is very handy.
-Raids depends on the difficulty u raid. If u run the lower difficulties, then anything goes and u can play what u enjoy the most.
-Raiding at mythic difficulty, u want to put extra effort in all artifacts as soon as possible. A napkin rule of thumb would be feed outlaw till 13 traits to greed, then feed assa artifact starting from bota till 24 traits, and after that go full ham on sub artifact, cause sub in mythic gear shits all over assa in ST and scales much better.

[Deleted]

Which spec has the most fun artifact quest? Currently trying to decide between Assassination and Outlaw

[Cookiewooki3]

Which spec has the most fun artifact quest? Currently trying to decide between Assassination and Outlaw

Afaik you're chasing after Garona's daggers that she hid away for assasination and for outlaw you're chasing after Eliza and her undead pirate army.

[elfporn]

Yes, but RtB provides insane amount of RNG, and I fear that a sim can greatly vary with this. It's a open question, I'm not set in my ways, and can comfortably play all 3.

Even if you're not re-rolling for 2 buffs, you will do equal or better than ass or sub. Learning the feel of each buff and adjusting, or rerolling for what you want for each part of an encounter is going to be part of mastering outlaw. Also, remember that rtb is almost a minute long, so when you get it, you've got it for a while.

[Deleted]

As i've written in several other threads, Assassination will be the stronger specc before emerald nightmare opens, and after you get gear outlaw will be top continuously, with sub behind and assassination last in every situation pretty much. So best bet is to go Outlaw main artifact and sub off artifact

But things can always change ofcourse, but as it looks now up to Nighthold Outlaw is rank1 and sub rank2, due to assassination scaling horribly with gear

[Katchii]

Which spec has the most fun artifact quest? Currently trying to decide between Assassination and Outlaw

Assassination is IMO way more fun of an artifact quest than Outlaw. Outlaw focuses on the swashbuckling toe to toe fighting fantasy the spec kind of focuses on with a pirate ship and a pirate captain. Assassination you're trying to stealth through Stormwind with Garona to take out a Legion boss, using Sap and Pick-Pocket to get a key item all while avoiding the guards who will kill you on sight.

Both are very entertaining, but Assassination really just captures the whole stealth, in the shadows operative that the Class Hall fantasy kind of focuses on too so it brings the whole picture together...it just feels awesome.

[minteK917]

People really need to stop spreading that stuff that outlaw DPS is RNG in a bad way. Outlaw at mythic gear outperform even on its lowest possible dps rolls. Good rolls simply makes it far ahead. Rolling 6 buffs is not how you are balanced as outlaw. Your average is beyond other rogue specs and most other dps specs. If you roll 6 buff you can be as far as 200k dps above any other dps specs out of any classes, but you cant count on that, so the spec is not balanced around it. The spec is balanced around fishing your 2 buffs, over a few minutes that will be 32-38% of your rolls that are 2 buffs. Hence thats your average dps, which is where you are ahead of assa and sub. If you roll good, they are not even close to you.

[Prag]

I won't be raiding Mythic... ever (schedule is way too inconsistent), so I'll be maining Outlaw artifact with Assassination as my off. One for effectiveness (Outlaw), the other for fun.

Thanks to everyone who has posted info in these types of threads! I enjoy all the specs but I appreciate at least knowing the generally correct direction.

[Whitemist]

-Lving by far fastest is outlaw
-Dungeons if u want to contribute higher aoe go outlaw. Doesnt really matter i found assa and outlaw be close but that mfd spam in dungeons is very handy.
-Raids depends on the difficulty u raid. If u run the lower difficulties, then anything goes and u can play what u enjoy the most.
-Raiding at mythic difficulty, u want to put extra effort in all artifacts as soon as possible. A napkin rule of thumb would be feed outlaw till 13 traits to greed, then feed assa artifact starting from bota till 24 traits, and after that go full ham on sub artifact, cause sub in mythic gear shits all over assa in ST and scales much better.

I appreciate your "play for fun" attitude, but it was why I requested actual theorycrafted answers. I'm competative, I want to master my specs so I can swap to the optimal one, not one that "I like it, so will play it, no matter how bad it is". We are not super hardcore (Archie mythic went down in January), but I want to, and expect others to prepare and make the best of what hey have. Preferably I would like 23-24 traits into my choice going into first raid.

[precious]

I appreciate your "play for fun" attitude, but it was why I requested actual theorycrafted answers. I'm competative, I want to master my specs so I can swap to the optimal one, not one that "I like it, so will play it, no matter how bad it is". We are not super hardcore (Archie mythic went down in January), but I want to, and expect others to prepare and make the best of what hey have. Preferably I would like 23-24 traits into my choice going into first raid.

Then feed outlaw till 13 traits, skip assa and go ham into sub weapon all the way. When u have enough AK u can finish your OTL

[Eats Compost]

Among all classes and specs, how are Assassination and Outlaw doing at 110 with artifacts for cleave and AoE? Will either of them be expected to be performing near the top of a party or raid?

[Fiska]

-Lving by far fastest is outlaw

I've leveled to 110 as both Outlaw and Subtlety, and Outlaw was not the fastest; it was the slowest. Subtlety teleports between mobs and kills them with 2-3 Shadowstrikes followed up with an Eviscerate. If that doesn't do the trick you just Shadow Dances and repeat until the mob is dead. You'll seemingly never run out of Shadow Dance charges.

People who switch between Outlaw and Subtlety while leveling will notice that Subtlety is way more consistent. Outlaw will sometimes be able to pump out Run Through and kill mobs as quickly or faster than Subtlety, but sometimes not. Shadowstrike, on the other hand, is reliable every time. You'll also notice that as you get more and more levels Outlaw will be dipping low on health and have to chug Crimson Vial a lot, whilst Soothing Darkness will keep Subtlety on 100% all of the time. Once you're near lvl 110 Outlaw will struggle more with Rares whilst Subtlety doesn't lose health.

The main benefit of being Outlaw is Grappling Hook. This is a sweet tool for traversing terrain, which will come in handy some times. Subtlety, on the other hand, will be teleporting quickly between mobs with Shadowstrike and Shadowstep once you're killing X amount of mobs in a specific area.

[Msi]

Sooo what you say is: level as Sub and get the Outlaw artifact weapon?

[precious]

I've leveled to 110 as both Outlaw and Subtlety, and Outlaw was not the fastest; it was the slowest. Subtlety teleports between mobs and kills them with 2-3 Shadowstrikes followed up with an Eviscerate. If that doesn't do the trick you just Shadow Dances and repeat until the mob is dead. You'll seemingly never run out of Shadow Dance charges.

People who switch between Outlaw and Subtlety while leveling will notice that Subtlety is way more consistent. Outlaw will sometimes be able to pump out Run Through and kill mobs as quickly or faster than Subtlety, but sometimes not. Shadowstrike, on the other hand, is reliable every time. You'll also notice that as you get more and more levels Outlaw will be dipping low on health and have to chug Crimson Vial a lot, whilst Soothing Darkness will keep Subtlety on 100% all of the time. Once you're near lvl 110 Outlaw will struggle more with Rares whilst Subtlety doesn't lose health.

The main benefit of being Outlaw is Grappling Hook. This is a sweet tool for traversing terrain, which will come in handy some times. Subtlety, on the other hand, will be teleporting quickly between mobs with Shadowstrike and Shadowstep once you're killing X amount of mobs in a specific area.

Yea this method works if u go one by one or maybe 2-3 mobs at a time as sub. With OTL if for example the quest tells me kill 20 certain mobs, all i do is run around gather all 20 mobs and barrage/mirrorblade with riposte one and everything dies in 3-4 sec especially if u have shark up. Sub cannot kill very big packs cause of no proper aoe.

My pulls goes as: barrage/mirrorblade first big pack, rings second big pack, adr/spam mfd third pack. By this time barrage and mirrorblade are ready again cause of only 1 min or barrage can be reduced from RTB, resulting using it every 20-30 sec.

Anyway thats my method of fast lvling and it gave me the best result of capping at early 6 hours. Ofc being 747ilvl helps a lot

[Exhuman]

Outlaw for Leveling / Dungeon
Assassination after level 110 for Rading