Can we just all agree that Blizzard is destroying world interaction?

[potis]

So what if I gear chase through pvp, or gear chase through mythic+? Neither of those are raids.

As i said multiple times and you didnt understand but took the discussion to raiding.

What you do in the game, is your problem and how you spend your time is your problem.

If you cant comprehend the basic math behind it i cant help you, if you cant understand that the 890 Heroic Nighthold raider will have more gear than your average PvPer, i cant help you.

It doesnt matter if you do Mythic + or PvP, it doesnt matter if you have 910 item level, without set bonus and raiding trinkets your character is trash.

First of all they said themselves the top pvpers will have gear around Heroic level, which makes no sense since it gets disabled in instanced PvP anyway? Rofl.

Secondly, have you finished basic elementary math? Do you understand what a set bonus and raiding trinkets means to percentages?

Quick example:

900 item level PvPer outside in the world = 150K DPS.

900 item level heroic Nighthold raider with set bonus and trinkets = 220K DPS +, wanna know why? MATH.

It has always been the case, and will always be, the Mythic raiders will always have an advantage where Blizzard allows it to exist.

They changed Instanced PvP after 11 years (Finally) so gear doesnt matter.

There is your PvP, stop talking about it anymore, gear doesnt exist in it anymore.

They just give you drops so you can GEAR CHASE, AND HAVE THE DELUSION YOU ARE GEAR CHASING AND GIVE THEM MONEY.

[NineSpine]

I'm not here to teach you how to read. If you put 1+1 together you get what?

Progression-based MMO.

Raiding="Fastest" way to get gear.

Gear=Progression.

I'm done with you. The absolutely crazy amount of time they put into class balance and creating an entirely new PVP-system is because they want to keep raiding balanced between classes. The game has a lot of different ways to get gear, but the core part of the game (progression) will always be found in raiding.

I can process the words in front of me, just as i'm going to interpret them based on what you've said in the past, i'm not a fucking computer.

So you don't have a quote where they say that raiding is the focus of the game? Do you have a quote where they say upgrades only come from raids?

You will end up with lesser gear. Get over it.

So will everyone that doesn't do mythic raiding. By your logic, that means mythic raiding is the FOCUS of the game. Explain how an activity that 1% of players do, can be the focus of the game.

[Ragedaug]

That's complete bullshit though.

Nope. As an Enhancement Shaman in BC, that was 100% my experience. I normally had to hope my RL friends who rolled healing/tanking classes logged on so I could get a party. If I was logged on by myself, I would be spamming chat for 2-3 hours and typically not be invited to a group.

[Trade] Dude: H MgT LF3M
[Whisper] Me to Dude: invite
[Whisper] Dude to Me: Resto?
[Whisper] Me to Dude: no, I'm Enhance
[Trade] Dude: H MgT LF3M

[Thrif]

Except its not.

Stop replying so fast, I replied too fast to really make my point and now I don't have time to edit it. Either way;

Sense of community has always been a ridiculously nostalgic point of view, this fanciful belief of some amazing, robust, and cohesive server community is horribly exaggerated.

This is the part that is complete bullshit. During vanilla, if you played a lot and interacted a lot, you knew all the guilds, you knew all the people, you even knew opposing faction members because you consistently fought the same people in BGs and in the open world and in big open world dragons and stuff.

Back then things such as making friends with people because you repeatedly met them in dungeons and bgs existed, things such as people knowing who you are and people having reputation and status existed, things such as logging onto opposing faction characters just to chat with the people you consistently met in BGs existed. I know, because they all happened to me, frequently.

Now, maybe it didn't exist for you because you didn't interact at lot and just sat and tryhard farmed raid bosses for an artificial sense of self esteem, but for us who played for socializing and having fun, it most certainly did.

Even in Vanilla, the most popular guilds only played with their own people

Yea... the difference is how those groups formed when there were such a thing as community and reputation. I got into the very best raiding guild on my server simply due to being a famous/fun player most people knew, who also had a good PvP reputation.

there were many times of sitting in trade looking for a group for BRC or Scholo or UBRS for hours and hours and hours.

how fun and inclusive.

That was never really a problem though, unless you were incapable of being social. I had tons of people I could run all the dungeons I wanted with.

Phasing is amazing and solves a very real problem while ruining a very minor one, if it exists at all.

Actually, it killed the very best part of the game, but made things more convenient to the asocial singleplayer people who are scared of interactions. Great job.

[NineSpine]

As i said multiple times and you didnt understand but took the discussion to raiding.

What you do in the game, is your problem and how you spend your time is your problem.

If you cant comprehend the basic math behind it i cant help you, if you cant understand that the 890 Heroic Nighthold raider will have more gear than your average PvPer, i cant help you.

It doesnt matter if you do Mythic + or PvP, it doesnt matter if you have 910 item level, without set bonus and raiding trinkets your character is trash.

First of all they said themselves the top pvpers will have gear around Mythic Level, which makes no sense since it gets disabled in instanced PvP anyway? Rofl.

It doesn't get disabled. It just gets reduced in effectiveness to something like 5%.

Secondly, have you finished basic elementary math? Do you understand what a set bonus and raiding trinkets means to percentages?

Sure, I just don't care, because any activity that can provide upgrades will still allow you to gear chase. Is your argument really that gear chasing doesn't count as gear chasing unless it's best in slot? If an upgrade drops in a dungeon for me, is it not an upgrade because there is a theoretical better mythic raiding piece?

Mythic raiders are 1% of the players. You are not the focus of the game. You are not important. Nobody cares about you. You have not impressed anyone. Get over yourself.

[KrazyK923]

This is the part that is complete bullshit. During vanilla, if you played a lot and interacted a lot, you knew all the guilds, you knew all the people, you even knew opposing faction members because you consistently fought the same people in BGs and in the open world and in big open world dragons and stuff.

Back then things such as making friends with people because you repeatedly met them in dungeons and bgs existed, things such as people knowing who you are and people having reputation and status existed, things such as logging onto opposing faction characters just to chat with the people you consistently met in BGs existed. I know, because they all happened to me, frequently.

Now, maybe it didn't exist for you because you didn't interact at lot and just sat and tryhard farmed raid bosses for an artificial sense of self esteem, but for us who played for socializing and having fun, it most certainly did.

At least two other people within less than 10 minutes have reiterated my thoughts about how it worked.

You're the one misremember reality broseph.

Yep, that was the drawback of the old system. Longer queus. Seems you got something right.

Queues? There were no queues in Vanilla dude. There was no automatic system. You have no idea wtf you're talking about.

Also...are you pretending longer queues is a good thing? LOL.

Yes it's way better that it took an hour+ to find a group. WHAT AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE!

Actually, it killed the very best part of the game, but made things more convenient to the asocial singleplayer people who plays mainly for e-peen and are scared of interactions. Great job.

No, no it didn't. Are you fucking serious? Are you serious here? Do you really not remember a bunch of people in tier 2 or 3 in IF or Org sitting in their tier gear pretending they were important? Fuck there were plenty of them in my own guild who did it.

I'm done here. Take off the nostalgia goggles broseph.

Jesus rofl.

[Ragedaug]

I'm not pretending there weren't. I was taking issue with the "community is just a fantasy" line. Besides, if you were spending hours (and that's not just you exaggerating) looking for dungeons, you were doing it wrong. L2network. What do you think a friend list is for?

Some of us don't play online games to "network". So while I agree, networking is a good life skill - and it helps in game, it's not fun for me, so I don't include it in my hobby time.

[Osmeric]

It's there since legion pre patch. Once there are to many people in the area your in, lets say 50 people in small area your in. then that will cutt off into 25 people. so you won't have to worry about a to busy zone. So other words a big fck you to socializing. And a small step into the single player mode.

Where "socializing" means, in practice, "tagging mobs before someone else can".

Good riddance to that.

If the devs wanted to have actual socializing they'd have automatic group formation, like in Rift. Otherwise, the great majority of people just solo with other players acting as annoyances.

[Krille]

So you don't have a quote where they say that raiding is the focus of the game? Do you have a quote where they say upgrades only come from raids?



So will everyone that doesn't do mythic raiding. By your logic, that means mythic raiding is the FOCUS of the game. Explain how an activity that 1% of players do, can be the focus of the game.

I've given you quotes from Ion Hazzikostas lead developer of WoW. Where he might not say it outright, but if you did watch the interview it was super-obvious that when they start making an expansion they're looking at raiding and how to tell a story through raiding. He's a professional working for one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, you literally HAVE to interpret what he's saying because he's never going to be that blunt about it. You in turn have given me nothing except a big whiny "no-no-no-no" and no evidence at all.

[Marston]

Sure, I just don't care, because any activity that can provide upgrades will still allow you to gear chase. Is your argument really that gear chasing doesn't count as gear chasing unless it's best in slot? If an upgrade drops in a dungeon for me, is it not an upgrade because there is a theoretical better mythic raiding piece?

Mythic raiders are 1% of the players. You are not the focus of the game. You are not important. Nobody cares about you. You have not impressed anyone. Get over yourself.

Aren't some of the dungeon trinkets/2 set pieces from the Suramar dungeons even BiS for some classes (if they procced a high enough itemlevel of course)? But if that's true, those don't drop in raids. What is this paradox?

[potis]

Mythic raiders are 1% of the players. You are not the focus of the game. You are not important. Nobody cares about you. You have not impressed anyone. Get over yourself.

First of all you assume i am a raider, i havent raided Mythic since forever, or the old Heroic, its called "not caring to raid anymore", i simply do Normal/Heroic Pugging with friends and i am satisfied.

I am just not a delusional low intellect human being and i can understand what game i am playing.

What you are calling gear chase with your lack of knowledge of the game and skill it seems i call it , 2 weeks of gameplay, not actual time, literally 2 weeks of 5 hours per day or so, if anyone followed your logic WoW would have died years ago.

[Begrudge]

literally the only thing in the game that kills interaction is the LFD/LFR queing system, that is completely it. If there was no queing system people would have to talk to each other. I was around before they implemented it and i remember when everything changed, and hasnt went back to the same no matter they do. Literally the only way to bring back community is to force people to talk to each other even through the easier part of the game not just flex-mythic raiding.

[Gradingus]

I doubt people on these forums knows how to agree with anything

God Blackheart was a run killer. And Murmur even worse.

"Time for fun!", good times.

[Ukon]

Why do you need "all" us to agree with you?

[potis]

I've given you quotes from Ion Hazzikostas lead developer of WoW. Where he might not say it outright, but if you did watch the interview it was super-obvious that when they start making an expansion they're looking at raiding and how to tell a story through raiding. He's a professional working for one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, you literally HAVE to interpret what he's saying because he's never going to be that blunt about it. You in turn have given me nothing except a big whiny "no-no-no-no" and no evidence at all.

He cant accept that he is paying and doing nothing in the game, they get butthurt when you remind them that, they cant understand that we dont care what they are doing as long as they can understand what the game is about.

Its like starting Witcher 3 and only doing Herbalism, never quests, just Herbalism/Alchemy running around collecting , creating potions and logging out, nothing else.

They are doing exactly that but they cant comprehend it.

[KrazyK923]

I doubt people on these forums knows how to agree with anything



"Time for fun!", good times.

I think I still have PTSD from trying to get that goddamn key from Murmur's room.

It was a godsend when people found out you could wall jump to the item without fighting him.

[Lesane]

With all the phasing going on. You barely see a small percentage of your server.
There are like 5 different faces going on Outland realm and everytime it gets to crowded you see half the world fading away around you.
This is one of those features who will probably hurt more people then actually help.

I don't see point in MMO's having a feature that makes the world less populated.

And no one can convince me why it's better.
I am playing a MMORPG, i don't want to see 20% of the active players of my server.

Legion is obviously doing quite amazing so far it has shown us. but the new phasing feature, is one of the biggest NO in WoW history.

Yes, because 20+ people in a single quest camp fighting over spawns and tags is so much fun and what MMO's are about. /s

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Cant say I really mind the feature. It certainly has its problems but it also certainly has the added benefit of seeing people out in the world where I haven't seen people in a really long time. So I can agree it can use some tweaks but over all I feel its heading in the right direction. Nothing for me to stand up on a soap box and scream about.

[Ragedaug]

Where "socializing" means, in practice, "tagging mobs before someone else can".

Good riddance to that.

If the devs wanted to have actual socializing they'd have automatic group formation, like in Rift. Otherwise, the great majority of people just solo with other players acting as annoyances.

My experience is that people rarely socialize in auto-formed groups. they get their objective and leave. 99% of the socialization is when they drop group and that's only a small percentage of the players that drop. So the vast majority of socializing is, "Thanks for group".

That said, I agree with the auto-grouping. I just don't think people get chatty and cozy with each other just because you see people in party frames on your screen.

"hey we are all in party now...did we all just become best friends??!!"
"yep!"

[NineSpine]

I've given you quotes from Ion Hazzikostas lead developer of WoW. Where he might not say it outright, but if you did watch the interview it was super-obvious that when they start making an expansion they're looking at raiding and how to tell a story through raiding. He's a professional working for one of the biggest gaming companies in the world, you literally HAVE to interpret what he's saying because he's never going to be that blunt about it. You in turn have given me nothing except a big whiny "no-no-no-no" and no evidence at all.

Oh, so it's the focus of the game, but because of big corporate conspiracies he can't actually say it. Got it, makes a lot of sense.

He says that Mythic Raiders will have the best gear, which I never disagreed with. They have also obviously made raiding a key point of storytelling, but that is why LFR exists, so what the fuck does that have to do with gear progression, when you yourself poo-pooed on LFR gear progression?

Is the focus of the game gear progression? Yes. Can you gear progress doing most activities? Yes.

You seem unable to separate "gear progression" from "absolutely attaining best in slot".